Four Chicago teens in custody after livestreaming kidnap and torture of disabled person
447 replies, posted
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51624924]So to act as if this is an act from the "left" and not one of those things or a culmination of them wouldn't be disingenuous?[/QUOTE]
If the fear, ignorance, and/or hatred is based on the foundations of leftist ideology, then it would make sense to say that the leftist ideology is the base cause.
I'm just not seeing how those three things are somehow totally separate reasons. Generally people don't just have arbitrary fear. It's based on some belief system.
There may be a very good reason that it isn't based on leftist ideology (It may be based on pure racism, for example), but the fact that fear, ignorance, and/or hatred are involved isn't one.
[QUOTE=Procrastinate;51624909]https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/816822258987507712?lang=en[/QUOTE]
#BLMKidnapping, nice.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51624912]I love this new theory about how if Clinton would have won the Trump Supporters would have truely came out and attacked.
Mate, the mainstream opinion has been the exact opposite since the election results. It was suppose to be that Trump supporters felt "empowered" to abuse.
I can tell you that a lot of Trump supporters didn't really expect to win. Highly motivated, but all the polls were heavily against us.[/QUOTE]
I don't think it's a new theory, I think it's just logical to assume that if people are violent against Trump supporters and people they believe would be Trump supporters, then there would be an equal group on the other side. Again, unless you can prove that Trump supporters are inherently more altruistic than their counterparts. I also really don't remember any mainstream media telling me to attack Trump supporters but okay.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51624926]This is the clown they put in after the Laquan McDonald incident. They scapegoated McCarthy and shoehorned in a black man to appease the protesters.[/QUOTE]
You don't think it was because he was qualified for the job?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51624930]So what is "to blame"? Leftist ideology or the emotional states of criminals?[/QUOTE]
Obviously both. But the general idea on this forum is to downplay the Leftist ideology (or the Islamist ideology when people are apologizing for terrorism) and to pretend only fear, ignorance, hatred, etc. are to blame.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51624952]Obviously both. But the general idea on this forum is to downplay the Leftist ideology (or the Islamist ideology when people are apologizing for terrorism) and to pretend only fear, ignorance, hatred, etc. are to blame.[/QUOTE]
Okay then. What parts of the leftist ideology would you lay the blame at?
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51624949]You don't think it was because he was qualified for the job?[/QUOTE]
I didn't say he wasn't qualified. But the main reason for his promotion was obviously to put a black man in the office.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51624949]You don't think it was because he was qualified for the job?[/QUOTE]
He's an ideologue. I recently saw him on a 60 minutes section talking about the fact that the murder rate in Chicago is going up, but the arrest rate is going down. The interviewers had been told by police officers in the city that many of them are not willing to put themselves at risk of being targeted, and are just doing the bare minimum. The chief flat out denies this fact in the interview, saying that there's not really anything going on all the while providing no other explanation.
[QUOTE=sgman91;51624959]He's an ideologue. I recently saw him on a 60 minutes section talking about the fact that the murder rate in Chicago is going up, but the arrest rate is going down. The interviewers had been told by police officers in the city that many of them are not willing to put themselves at risk of being targeted, and are just doing the bare minimum. The chief flat out denies this fact in the interview, saying that there's not really anything going on all the while providing no other explanation.[/QUOTE]
"He is an idealogue" (something which, even if it were true, wouldn't impact his ability to perform his job) is a far cry from saying he was promoted/hired because he was black.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51624955]Okay then. What parts of the leftist ideology would you lay the blame at?[/QUOTE]
I don't know if this should be called "leftist ideology", but the demonization of Trump needs to stop. This man is going to be president for the next 4 years and making him out to be satan won't end well. When Keith Olberman says "Don't normalize this man! Be part of the [I]resistance[/I]!", I can't say I'm too surprised when people commit political violence.
[video=youtube;-7xIln2-XRg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7xIln2-XRg[/video]
Found this on a buzzfeed article. Couldn't find the source so I just ripped it.
They had him at knifepoint. Kids these days amirite?
Imagine if it were white people kidnapping a black person and doing this and saying "fuck blacks, fuck obama"
Would you still it wasn't a hate crime?
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51624966]"He is an idealogue" (something which, even if it were true, wouldn't impact his ability to perform his job) is a far cry from saying he was promoted/hired because he was black.[/QUOTE]
It most definitely prevents him from performing his job effectively because he fails to address the actual issues out of ideological disagreement with them.
You're right, there's no way to know if his skin color was part of the decision, but it's hard to think that it didn't.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51624969]I don't know this should be called "leftist ideology", but the demonization of Trump needs to stop. This man is going to be president for the next 4 years and making him out to be satan won't end well. When Keith Olberman says "Don't normalize this man! Be part of the [I]resistance[/I]!", I can't say I'm too surprised when people commit political violence.[/QUOTE]
Okay, but that is distinctly different from criticism, and criticism has been met with "He's not even in office yet you can't say anything of that nature yet", so a lot of people go to the next stage in their opposition. For people like us, it's rude posts, for people like this it's far worse. Are the actions that need to be taken in the future solely by the members of the "left" in that regards?
I knew the perpetrators would be black before I even watched the video.
[QUOTE=sgman91;51624978]It most definitely prevents him from performing his job effectively because he fails to address the actual issues out of ideological disagreement with them.
You're right, there's no way to know if his skin color was part of the decision, but it's hard to think that it didn't.[/QUOTE]
My mistake was quoting you calling him an idealogue, because based on what you said, that doesn't make him an idealogue. Being an idealogue might impact his ability to perform his job, but disagreeing with officers/the interviewer certainly doesn't. I'd have to see the interview personally.
And my point wasn't that theres "no way to know" but that saying it was the main reason he was promoted is suggesting that the main reason wasn't because he was the most qualified person for the job.
This thread makes me genuinely terrified of the next 4 years as well as scared for the future of the US. The amount of bigotry and finger pointing is actually astounding. I think I finally understand why people think SH is trash.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51624969]I don't know if this should be called "leftist ideology", but the demonization of Trump needs to stop. This man is going to be president for the next 4 years and making him out to be satan won't end well. When Keith Olberman says "Don't normalize this man! Be part of the [I]resistance[/I]!", I can't say I'm too surprised when people commit political violence.[/QUOTE]
That's called criticizing the president elect. Call me when Olbermann starts calling for the kidnapping and torture of Trump supporters. Until then, stop trying to paint the left as more intrinsically violent than the right.
[QUOTE=Fish Muffin;51624972]Imagine if it were white people kidnapping a black person and doing this and saying "fuck blacks, fuck obama"
Would you still it wasn't a hate crime?[/QUOTE]
I'd be saying the same thing: Might be a racial hatecrime, might be a political hatecrime, and I wouldn't feel terrified about being an Obama supporter. We already went over this a couple pages ago.
[editline]4th January 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Killer monkey;51624995]This thread makes me genuinely terrified of the next 4 years as well as scared for the future of the US. The amount of bigotry and finger pointing is actually astounding. I think I finally understand why people think SH is trash.[/QUOTE]
A lot of it is just banter. I think everyone agrees that regardless of motivations the people in this video deserve a lot of time behind bars.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51625012]A lot of it is just banter. I think everyone agrees that regardless of motivations the people in this video deserve a lot of time behind bars.[/QUOTE]
What the fuck? How can you call any of this thread banter?
Yeah, I'm done. This place needs a nuke.
The left is more violent. The hard evidence is overwhelming compared to the right. Stop downplaying it Raidyr.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51625012]Might be a racial hatecrime, might be a political hatecrime,
[/QUOTE]
I mean, just watching the video makes it a fact that's exactly what their motivations were. I'm not sure what more evidence you need.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51624992]And my point wasn't that there's "no way to know" but that saying it was the main reason he was promoted is suggesting that the main reason wasn't because he was the most qualified person for the job.[/QUOTE]
I don't know. I would need to see the alternative choices and why this one was the best choice.
So I looked into Eddie Johnson, the new superintendent of police, and it has an interesting, to say the least, story. The Chicago Police Board gave Rahm Emanuel 3 nominees for the position, but Rahm ignored them all and chose Eddie Johnson, who never even applied to the job.
[QUOTE=-nesto-;51625029]The left is more violent. The hard evidence is overwhelming compared to the right. Stop downplaying it Raidyr.[/QUOTE]
generalizations like this are precisely what people like Pantz was asking people to stop doing to the right
generalizations aren't helpful and don't serve to do anything but separate people so I don't get why it's okay for the goose but not the gander in this instance
The cunt's facebook is swarmed with hate comments nonstop it's amazing
there are even supporters of her wow
[QUOTE=-nesto-;51625029]The left is more [B]dangerous[/B].[/QUOTE]
I think this is a better way to put it considering how some people are willing to bend over backwards in order to ignore the situation here.
The right and left obviously have dangerous elements, but it seems people are a lot more lenient on the left than the right.
[QUOTE=-nesto-;51625029]The left is more violent. The hard evidence is overwhelming compared to the right. Stop downplaying it Raidyr.[/QUOTE]
Well I'm convinced.
[QUOTE=sgman91;51625039]I don't know. I would need to see the alternative choices and why this one was the best choice.
So I looked into Eddie Johnson, the new superintendent of police, and it has an interesting, to say the least, story. The Chicago Police Board gave Rahm Emanuel 3 nominees for the position, but Rahm ignored them all and chose Eddie Johnson, who never even applied to the job.[/QUOTE]
How interesting.
[editline]4th January 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Thlis;51625048]I think this is a better way to put it considering how some people are willing to bend over backwards in order to ignore the situation here.[/QUOTE]
I think people don't like being generalized. I would imagine that sentiment would hit quite close to you but I guess not.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51625050]
I think people don't like being generalized. I would imagine that sentiment would hit quite close to you but I guess not.[/QUOTE]
My point is that culturally we are way more forgiving of left leaning violence than right leaning violence.
That's why dangerous would be a better word, not that they are more violent but that the violence committed has less repercussion on them.
[QUOTE=Thlis;51625048]
The right and left obviously have dangerous elements, but it seems people are a lot more lenient on the left than the right.[/QUOTE]
I think it depends on political affiliation and you just notice people being more lenient to the left than the right because you don't identify with the left as much as the right.
What's the actual evidence to support this isn't a political crime? They just happened to be violent already?
[QUOTE=Thlis;51625077]My point is that culturally we are way more forgiving of left leaning violence than right leaning violence.
That's why dangerous would be a better word, not that they are more violent but that the violence committed has less repercussion on them.[/QUOTE]
I completely agree with this sentiment.
A lot of leftist policies and situations have been given a way fairer shake than the right.
[QUOTE=Thlis;51625077]My point is that culturally we are way more forgiving of left leaning violence than right leaning violence.
That's why dangerous would be a better word, not that they are more violent but that the violence committed has less repercussion on them.[/QUOTE]
Whether or not we as a society are more lenient towards left leaning violence than right leaning violence is an interesting question for sure. I was just looking for someone to explain what makes the leftist inherently more violent.
[editline]4th January 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Tudd;51625088]I completely agree with this sentiment.
A lot of leftist policies and situations have been given a way fairer shake than the right.[/QUOTE]
What policies and situations?
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51625083]I think it depends on political affiliation and you just notice people being more lenient to the left than the right because you don't identify with the left as much as the right.[/QUOTE]
I really disagree with that.
First, because I don't really identify with the right that much. Both sides in terms of politics just seem fucked to me.
Second because again, if the roles were reversed the reaction would be completely different.
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