• Four Chicago teens in custody after livestreaming kidnap and torture of disabled person
    447 replies, posted
[QUOTE=sgman91;51625216]I would never argue that each individual on the left is more inherently violent. I know extremely peaceful people on the left and I know extremely violence people on the right. My point would be that leftist ideology excuses for and leads to greater levels of violence, especially on a large scale. It's hard for me to even imagine a full scale political riot in the name of right wing ideology, yet we see it all the time on the left. You had the riots at climate conventions in Europe, you had the BLM riots, there were riots in multiple cities after Trump's election, etc.[/QUOTE] You say that you don't believe the individual on the left is inherently more violent but you do believe the ideology they subscribe to excuses violence which sounds like you are trying to draw a connection straight from the individual to their ideology. I'm just getting mixed messages on what exactly you mean here because the impression I'm getting is "Of course you aren't violent Lefty, but your ideology is".
[QUOTE=MadPro119;51625282]No, because they never deserve freedom again. Not even a chance. 0.0000001% they escape from prison is too much. I'm not going to debate this, its how I feel currently in the moment after watching the disgusting footage.[/QUOTE] It's pretty rough to sit through but I don't think they should be executed for what they did. A long stay in prison seems fine to me.
[QUOTE=MadPro119;51625282]No, because they never deserve freedom again. Not even a chance. 0.0000001% they escape from prison is too much. I'm not going to debate this, its how I feel currently in the moment after watching the disgusting footage.[/QUOTE] I think everyone deserves a chance at rehabilitation but lol good luck for that happening in America.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51625284]You say that you don't believe the individual on the left is inherently more violent but you do believe the ideology they subscribe to excuses violence which sounds like you are trying to draw a connection straight from the individual to their ideology. I'm just getting mixed messages on what exactly you mean here because the impression I'm getting is "Of course you aren't violent Lefty, but your ideology is".[/QUOTE] I see an ideology as a sort of bell curve. You have the extremists on the far end and the extreme moderates on the other far side. I would extend those who find violence as acceptable further into the bell curve on the left than I would on the right.
[QUOTE=sgman91;51625325]I see an ideology as a sort of bell curve. You have the extremists on the far end and the extreme moderates on the other far side. I would extend those who find violence as acceptable further into the bell curve on the left than I would on the right.[/QUOTE] So left wing ideology isn't more inherently excusing of violence, it's just that those who find political violence acceptable happen to be leftists more often than not? [editline]5th January 2017[/editline] The undertones of your posts suggest that I'm not violent because I lean towards the the left just because some leftists individuals and groups are violent, but my ideology, as tenuously connected as it is to those that support violence, is wrong, and less righteous than right wing ideology.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51625342]So left wing ideology isn't more inherently excusing of violence, it's just that those who find political violence acceptable happen to be leftists more often than not?[/QUOTE] The bell curve is for ideology, not people. So extreme leftist ideology is on the far end, etc. There is right wing ideology that allows for violence, but it's a very small part of right wing ideology. On the other hand, there's a sizable portion of left wing ideology that allows for some level of violence.
[QUOTE=Gray Altoid;51625253]The dude in the video didn't even say "kids being kids." Literally all he said was "it's just stupidity."[/QUOTE] probably referring to this [media]https://twitter.com/tml103/status/816824415115735040[/media]
[QUOTE=sgman91;51625355]The bell curve is for ideology, not people. So extreme leftist ideology is on the far end, etc. There is right wing ideology that allows for violence, but it's a very small part of right wing ideology. On the other hand, there's a sizable portion of left wing ideology that allows for some level of violence.[/QUOTE] I disagree on the size disparity but for the sake of argument lets say I agree. It seems like you recognize that judging the individual is wrong but at the same time you are criticizing left wing ideology as a whole. Given how important ideology is to an individuals identity and experience, are you not essentially judging the individual regardless? The logical conclusion, if there is a larger portion of left wing ideology that allows for violence, is that one can assume the leftist they are interacting with is more open to violence than the average right winger.
If you attack a black man calling him a hillary supporter, and attack a white man calling him a trump supporter, its literally the exact same shit and can easily be called politically motivated (yelling out who they think they supported) hate crime (yelling out the race) especially when theres video evidence, and either way its awful. Some of you need to put your cocks away for a minute and think rationally instead of trying to impress people, god damn.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;51625384] Some of you need to put your cocks away and think rationally instead of trying to impress people, god damn.[/QUOTE] What?
It's even more retarded that people are still saying this wasn't a hate crime when even the left leaning Reddit subs are not arguing about that.
If they don't get charged with a hate crime I will be absolutely blown away.
Christ, we are in a bad state if we are calling entire political spectrums evil or worse or more violent. Politicians have done nothing to mend any 'with us or against us' attitudes, and this thread is proof that it's widespread.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51625401]What?[/QUOTE] I said: Some people in this thread need to put their cocks away and shouldnt be arguing whether or not X is X and its actually Y because of Z even if the situation was reversed everyone would agree its X.
Psh if the tables were flipped and these were white kids torturing a handicapped black kid, there would be a national outcry for Trump to personally address this behavior and maybe even a public address from Obama. Oh and nobody would even argue it wasn't a hate crime too.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51625382]I disagree on the size disparity but for the sake of argument lets say I agree. It seems like you recognize that judging the individual is wrong but at the same time you are criticizing left wing ideology as a whole. Given how important ideology is to an individuals identity and experience, are you not essentially judging the individual regardless? The logical conclusion, if there is a larger portion of left wing ideology that allows for violence, is that one can assume the leftist they are interacting with is more open to violence than the average right winger.[/QUOTE] Average? Yes. I would never assume about an individual, though, without first hearing their opinions.
[QUOTE=MadPro119;51625264]Give them the death penalty. Yes it costs more and every other reason not to do it. Give them the death penalty.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=MadPro119;51625282]No, because they never deserve freedom again. Not even a chance. 0.0000001% they escape from prison is too much. I'm not going to debate this, its how I feel currently in the moment after watching the disgusting footage.[/QUOTE] You wouldn't say this if it was a bunch of people beating up a Hillary supporter, would you? [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Why reply?" - Bradyns))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51625448]There is a complication: [URL]https://www.isp.state.il.us/docs/2-421a(01-14).pdf[/URL] Illinois law^ Do we have any proof that they kidnapped the boy because he was white, or was Trump supporter? Is it provable? No, "Yelling" while doing torture is not a qualifier.[/QUOTE] What in the actual fuck, that is the *worst* sort of technicality in a law I've ever seen. If they actually do try to exploit this and get off hate crime charges, the law is well and truly [B]is [/B]an ass. Also, these shitbags have clearly done [I]wonders[/I] for race relations. I cannot even begin to imagine the shitstorm if,shortly after Obama was elected, a bunch of white people did the same thing to a black kid. What in the actual fuck, some people are real goddamn monsters and these people need to be excised from the general population ASAP.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51625448] Do we have any proof that they kidnapped the boy because he was white, or was Trump supporter? Is it provable? No, "Yelling" while doing torture is not a qualifier.[/QUOTE] Im not exactly well versed in the intricate inner workings of the criminal justice system but im pretty sure video evidence of them torturing a dude while yelling "fuck white people" is quantifiable enough as them acting on a bias. Its certainly not contradictory to the hate crime accusation.
[QUOTE=MadPro119;51625282]No, because they never deserve freedom again. Not even a chance. 0.0000001% they escape from prison is too much. I'm not going to debate this, its how I feel currently in the moment after watching the disgusting footage.[/QUOTE] Yes this is awful and they are disgusting things that shouldn't even be called human beings. But it sounds like you need to take a second to step back and think rationally. The pure hatred, anger and want for revenge that you're experiencing is only go to fan the flames.
[QUOTE=CanUBe;51625450]You wouldn't say this if it was a bunch of people beating up a Hillary supporter, would you?[/QUOTE] You are a god damn pig, you disgust me. You don't know me but you have the audacity to think I'm motivated for political reasons? They tortured an innocent mentally challenged man. Get some perspective and grow up. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming" - Bradyns))[/highlight]
Remember kids who are reading this, just don't yell racist slurs or political hate speech at the start of a Kidnapping and instead pour it all out during the actual torturing process! That way you can just say it was part of the "moment."
[QUOTE=MadPro119;51625494]You are a god damn pig, you disgust me. You don't know me but you have the audacity to think I'm motivated for political reasons? They tortured an innocent mentally challenged man. Get some perspective and grow up.[/QUOTE] Not necessarily disagreeing with you on that but your posts read like satire, my dude.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51625402]It's even more retarded that people are still saying this wasn't a hate crime when even the left leaning Reddit subs are not arguing about that.[/QUOTE] This is the most bizarre argument to authority I've seen in a long while. And don't call people retarded, that's how Trump won. [QUOTE=AaronM202;51625469]Im not exactly well versed in the intricate inner workings of the criminal justice system but im pretty sure video evidence of them torturing a dude while yelling "fuck white people" is quantifiable enough as them acting on a bias. Its certainly not contradictory to the hate crime accusation.[/QUOTE] Hate crime laws and convictions vary drastically by state. In [URL="http://www.cbsnews.com/news/hate-crime-conviction-in-new-york-transgender-attack/"]New York[/URL] a man was convicted of a hate crime for calling a transgender person a "faggot" where as in [URL="http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-san-jose-state-students-convicted-of-bullying-peer-20160223-story.html"]California[/URL] a group of white students had their hate crime charges dropped despite the reasons behind their bullying being [I]blatantly [/I]racial. Speaking generally what matters to a judge is what you say before the crime than what happens during. I can't find cases based in Illinois off google.
[QUOTE=MadPro119;51625494]You are a god damn pig, you disgust me. You don't know me but you have the audacity to think I'm motivated for political reasons? They tortured an innocent mentally challenged man. Get some perspective and grow up.[/QUOTE] I too, find this act horrible and reprehensible. I'm not suggesting any intentional bias but obviously you are going to feel more strongly about it if you also support Trump. Maybe you should give yourself time to calm down.
[QUOTE=MadPro119;51625494]You are a god damn pig, you disgust me. You don't know me but you have the audacity to think I'm motivated for political reasons? They tortured an innocent mentally challenged man. Get some perspective and grow up.[/QUOTE] btw this is how people feel when ya'll say "I bet you wouldn't be saying this if it was a [I]black person[/I] :smug:"
effin Black Lives Matter
My favorite part is that nobody on the other side of this debate has remotely touched the thereotical scenario if the race roles were flipped.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51625525]btw this is how people feel when ya'll say "I bet you wouldn't be saying this if it was a [I]black person[/I] :smug:"[/QUOTE] I sincerely doubt it'd be an 8 page long dick measuring contest of semantics and downplaying the severity of the crime if it were.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51625539]My favorite part is that nobody on the other side of this debate has remotely touched the thereotical scenario if the race roles were flipped.[/QUOTE] Indeed [QUOTE=Tudd;51625416]Psh if the tables were flipped and these were white kids torturing a handicapped black kid, there would be a national outcry for Trump to personally address this behavior and maybe even a public address from Obama. Oh and nobody would even argue it wasn't a hate crime too.[/QUOTE] - [QUOTE=AaronM202;51625543]I sincerely doubt it'd be an 8 page long dick measuring contest of semantics and downplaying the severity of the crime if it were.[/QUOTE] I'm still confused about the whole dick measuring thing and who exactly I'm trying to impress.
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