[QUOTE=Wizards Court;43654736]wait what? i mean sure israel needs to stop with the bullshit, but are you seriously saying that saudi arabia which finances terrorism, keep their stuff to themselves? lets not go overboard here.[/QUOTE]
The USA finances terrorism. Israel finances terrorism. Any country with political designs on the world at large finances terrorism.
Was there a point to your statement?
[QUOTE=lolz3;43667301]I was circumcised on my own terms three years ago and it is a shit load cleaner now.[/QUOTE]
Everybody should have this choice.
[QUOTE=lolz3;43667301]People like you think Circumcision is this grotesque act that's evil and inhuman because it damages the penis. If you go to someone who knows what they are doing, they will have minimal if any scar tissue. And there is a reason it's for CLEANLINESS! What the fuck do you not understand about that, I was circumcised on my own terms three years ago and it is a shit load cleaner now.[/QUOTE]
"I chose to do this for myself, therefore it should be fine to force it on other people, to stop me is enslavement"
[QUOTE=lolz3;43667301]People like you think Circumcision is this grotesque act that's evil and inhuman because it damages the penis. If you go to someone who knows what they are doing, they will have minimal if any scar tissue. And there is a reason it's for CLEANLINESS! What the fuck do you not understand about that, I was circumcised on my own terms three years ago and it is a shit load cleaner now.[/QUOTE]
Wow, you must be one disgusting person if it's a "shit load cleaner". You should re-evaluate your personal hygiene methods. Maybe soap and water aren't that bad after all? Maybe you should bathe/shower more than once every 2 years..? I bet that would assist your "CLEANLINESS!"
I think you're just bitter because you made the stupidest decision in your life ,getting your dick lopped off, was it a bet with your friends or something? A drunk tattoo kinda deal but you took it to the next level?
The only times you should get circumcised is when your have a medical condition which requires for you to do so. It was proven before that it does not help prevent any sort of diseases and just keeping clean/being protected during sex is much better than letting your dick get mutilated. You have no arguments other than your own sad cry for your missing foreskin.
[QUOTE=lolz3;43667301]People like you think Circumcision is this grotesque act that's evil and inhuman because it damages the penis. If you go to someone who knows what they are doing, they will have minimal if any scar tissue. And there is a reason it's for CLEANLINESS! What the fuck do you not understand about that, I was circumcised on my own terms three years ago and it is a shit load cleaner now.[/QUOTE]
Dipshit, let me put this in simple words so you'll understand. Now read carefully:
It's okay if you choose to do it to yourself. It's not okay if you do it to a kid too young to really consent.
[QUOTE=archangel125;43667379]Dipshit, let me put this in simple words so you'll understand. Now read carefully:
It's okay if you choose to do it to yourself. It's not okay if you do it to a kid too young to really consent.[/QUOTE]
Or how about I get it done if I want it for my child so they do not have to worry about it? By your logic that it should be up to the child guess what then, it should be illegal to name your child. Hell you can't feed your child because you're not allowed to do that because they did not concent to it. I'm done here, go go live in your little land that you sit there and want the government to slowly control your life.
[QUOTE=lolz3;43667513]Or how about I get it done if I want it for my child so they do not have to worry about it? By your logic that it should be up to the child guess what then, it should be illegal to name your child. Hell you can't feed your child because you're not allowed to do that because they did not concent to it. I'm done here, go go live in your little land that you sit there and want the government to slowly control your life.[/QUOTE]
Vote lolz3: Because feeding your children is the same as cutting off parts of their genitals.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;43660306]Except whatever Israel does, does not justify antisemitism.[/QUOTE]
I still have no idea why jews need their own word for racist.
The Gettysburg Address was actually about circumcision fyi
I just realized, lolz3 is so flustered that he's even stuttering in his posts.
[quote]I'm done here, go go live in your little land that you sit there and want the government to slowly control your life.[/quote]
edit:
did I seriously just get post-merge-ninja'd by 2 people at once
Is circumcision in the Third Amendment or the Fourth? I can never keep tracked of that most inalienable right
-snip-
[QUOTE=lolz3;43667301]People like you think Circumcision is this grotesque act that's evil and inhuman because it damages the penis. If you go to someone who knows what they are doing, they will have minimal if any scar tissue. And there is a reason it's for CLEANLINESS! What the fuck do you not understand about that, I was circumcised on my own terms three years ago and it is a shit load cleaner now.[/QUOTE]
Did you by any chance have phimosis?
Like, were you able to freely and EASILY pull back your foreskin?
[QUOTE=lolz3;43667513]Or how about I get it done if I want it for my child so they do not have to worry about it? By your logic that it should be up to the child guess what then, it should be illegal to name your child. Hell you can't feed your child because you're not allowed to do that because they did not concent to it. I'm done here, go go live in your little land that you sit there and want the government to slowly control your life.[/QUOTE]
Having food and a name are pretty necessary, but by your own admission circumcision is not necessary. Furthermore, a name can be changed, as can your diet, but circumcision is irreversible (unless there's a flawless reconstructive procedure). Those aren't fair comparisons at all.
This isn't wanting to control people's lives; on the contrary, it's about seeing that every boy has control of his own bits.
[QUOTE=butt2089;43663910]1. It offers a slight reduction in penile cancer, which is an [I]extremely[/I] rare form of cancer. It also reduces the risk of contracting HIV, the chances of HIV infection from intercourse are also [I]extremely[/I] low. So the benefits are minimal at best. The NHS website states that practicing good hygiene and using condoms are vastly more effective than circumcision. [/quote]
Yeah, benefits are minimal, which I explicitly stated. I'm not advocating every parent goes out and performs the operation on their kid since the benefits are minimal, but if the parent feels it's in the child's best interests then they should be able to do it.
[QUOTE=butt2089;43663910]2. Your large study of german men relates to Erectile Dysfunction, how is that related to sensitivity loss? You also stated that the loss of sensitivity is minimal, the NHS website appears to disagree. Also, neither you nor your friends can comment on sensitivity when all you've known is having a cut penis..[/quote]
Read the whole abstract. "Sexual satisfaction of men in this study was independent of the presence of the prepuce." The study was primarily focused on ED because that's what they were concerned about, but it wasn't just focused on that one thing when there were other results to report. And your argument goes both ways, since you don't know what it feels like to not have foreskin you can't comment either (so I might as well not have posted it, but hey, too late now, just trying to inject some first hand experience to clear things up). As for NHS, I'd like to see the study that they got their information that the sensitivity does change, before I comment on it.
[QUOTE=butt2089;43663910]3. It's an uncomplicated surgery. This is not a valid reason for having it done. You are more likely to have complications as a result of the surgery than enjoy any of the supposed benefits.[/quote]
That's true. Which is why it's an optional procedure. Again, parents think it's in the child's best interests, then they should be able to go ahead with the procedure, but not all parents should and not all parents will.
[QUOTE=butt2089;43663910]Your ethical considerations are absurd as well. A parent getting to choose a child's haircut and clothing is rather different from choosing to permanently alter their body, for next to no health benefits. The health benefits of vaccination and the correct diet, on the other hand, are numerous. [/quote]
True. I guess a better analogy would be if piercing a infant's ears some sort of medical benefit, albeit minor. Same types of issues apply to both, some kids grow up and dislike having their ears pierced, some kids have complications, but the majority grow up not giving a fuck about it. Ear/penis still works fine, but it looks different. Rarely something bad could happen during the procedure, bleeding/infection, etc. but 9 times out of 10 probably not. Right now there is no medical benefit to piercing an infant's ears, so the issue is more contentious in that regard compared to circumcision. Again, my point is not "everyone should circumcise," it's that "if a parent wants to do so because they think it's worth it, they should." Circumcision isn't some drastic horrible mutilation like everyone here seems to think it is. It's basically a haircut for your dick. You can always get the skin back from reconstructive surgery, and if you were that pissed off about it you could probably get your parents to fit the bill, but it's so minor people don't care one way or the other here.
[QUOTE=butt2089;43663910]
Movements against circumcision are anti-science and anti-medical, uh what?? Most circumcisions are performed for religious reasons. [/quote]
Not necessarily true, at least as far as the US is concerned. ~60% of infants were circumcised in the US from 1970 to about now, and only 1.4% of the US population is Jewish. It's done here for health reasons primarily.
[QUOTE=butt2089;43663910]
Have you ever asked your parents why they had you circumcised? Did they actually cite penile cancer and HIV reduction as reasons?[/QUOTE]
Yes. My parents aren't religious, so there's no other reason to do so. They were told the risks and benefits, and they felt it was in my best interests to be circumcised. And I'm fine with that, since I don't have problems masturbating, climaxing or getting hard. And if for some reason I wanted foreskin again, I could get reconstructive surgery, but it's not worth it since there's really no benefit for getting the foreskin back other than my dick having a hood which for me would feel weird.
From what I see now, [B]the most contention in this thread is basically cultural differences[/B]. In the USA, circumcision is done frequently, and most people don't give a shit, and since circumcision is mostly chosen to be done by the mother there's probably some aesthetic dimensions to it too. Overseas, circumcision isn't funded by NHS or the socialized healthcare systems over there, and with a cultural view of circumcision as weird so it's not done there.
There's misinformation on both sides of the debate, people on pro-circumcision denying risks, exacerbating benefits and citing some studies that are a bit biased, and people on anti-circumcision sides exacerbating the risks, citing biased studies and claiming it's some sort of tragedy when it's just something minor. It's a small cut, not a missing head. It's not that painful and there's not too much blood unless the pediatrician fucks up and if he fucks up with such a routine thing I'd hate to see him doing some other procedure. But, because it's done on a part of the body that men have a primal fear of having damage done to it people make knee jerk reactions thinking it's a torture scenario when it's not. And then others who fear having their rights taken away or harming their traditions may get emotional over it.
Besides, if you were to outlaw circumcision, those who do it for religious reasons will continue to do so, albeit without a clinical environment and trained practitioner doing it, so the risks are even bigger. Other people probably wouldn't care because it's minor. Hell, I honestly don't care one way or the other if my future child would be circumcised, if I had a wife who wanted it done it'd be done, if she didn't care it wouldn't happen.
Basically, whatever. Do it or don't, but outlawing it will just cause more problems.
For fucks sake,
The argument already ended here in denmark with, "no cosmetic surgury on infants."
[QUOTE=Sprockethead;43667963]For fucks sake,
The argument already ended with "no cosmetic surgury on infants."[/QUOTE]
Some are convinced that the surgery is not cosmetic.
[QUOTE=katbug;43667970]Some are convinced that the surgery is not cosmetic.[/QUOTE]
Some are morons.
[QUOTE=Sprockethead;43667963]For fucks sake,
The argument already ended here in denmark with, "no cosmetic surgury on infants."[/QUOTE]
B-b-but that's racist! How dare you opress our religious commandments!?
one of the weird things these threads bring out is people saying circumcised dicks are functionally impaired or something
and these threads always follow that, I don't think we should do it to kids outside of medical reasons(they exist. phimosis, infections, etc) as rare as those might be. But I don't understand the general air of the discussion beyond that.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;43668990]one of the weird things these threads bring out is people saying circumcised dicks are functionally impaired or something
and these threads always follow that, I don't think we should do it to kids outside of medical reasons(they exist. phimosis, infections, etc) as rare as those might be. But I don't understand the general air of the discussion beyond that.[/QUOTE]
The argument isn't to whether or not circumcision significantly impacts somebody's life, although that's what a lot of people seem to think. What it's really about is a permanent, irreversible change being forced on somebody who is unable to make that decision for themselves yet.
[QUOTE=X6ZioN6X;43669102]The argument isn't to whether or not circumcision significantly impacts somebody's life, although that's what a lot of people seem to think. What it's really about is a permanent, irreversible change being forced on somebody who is unable to make that decision for themselves yet.[/QUOTE]
and I agree with that aspect, it's not something to force on someone without a choice without a good medical based reason.
it's when people start saying ridiculous things like all the problems circumcision brings that honestly, I haven't even heard of happening to people and they act like those effects are the rule, not the exception to it. That's when I go "what the fuck are you going on about now"
A better title would have been "Circumcision cuts a divide between Denmark and Israel".
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;43669148]and I agree with that aspect, it's not something to force on someone without a choice without a good medical based reason.
it's when people start saying ridiculous things like all the problems circumcision brings that honestly, I haven't even heard of happening to people and they act like those effects are the rule, not the exception to it. That's when I go "what the fuck are you going on about now"[/QUOTE]
Exactly what effects are you referring to?
[QUOTE=l337k1ll4;43669761]Exactly what effects are you referring to?[/QUOTE]
when people talk about the total loss of sensitivity or the inability to self lubricate or masturbate because of that, numbing it, etc
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;43670327]when people talk about the total loss of sensitivity or the inability to self lubricate or masturbate because of that, numbing it, etc[/QUOTE]
I guess those people had too much taken off the tip :wink:
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;43670327]when people talk about the total loss of sensitivity or the inability to self lubricate or masturbate because of that, numbing it, etc[/QUOTE]
Total loss of sensitivity no, but there is absolutely a fairly large loss of sensitivity.
[QUOTE=l337k1ll4;43672660]Total loss of sensitivity no, but there is absolutely a fairly large loss of sensitivity.[/QUOTE]
It's exaggerated
i had to get circumcised and its not even bad
[QUOTE=archangel125;43667364]The USA finances terrorism. Israel finances terrorism. Any country with political designs on the world at large finances terrorism.
Was there a point to your statement?[/QUOTE]
while the USA/Russia did waaaay more shit during the cold war relating to terrorism funding(which they tend to regret it now, since its biting them in their asses), to actually attempt to compare them with saudi arabia is ridiculous, come on now, oyou're going to pretend saudi arabia isn't one of the main "sugar daddies" , if not the biggest of several muslim terrorist factions out there?
also how exactly is the US/israel funding terrorism atm(like who would they actually fund in the first place)? both tend to prefer to bomb folks themselves :v:, than fund others to do it, the only case you might have is israel helping the settlers terrorize the fuck out of the palestinians at the west bank.
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