[QUOTE=Taepodong-2;48572641]This applies to history degrees specifically (because that's my major and I legitimately believe it's the most useful liberal arts field.), but it shows what kind of career paths are open to someone with a liberal arts degree beyond just Starbucks.
[URL]http://history.ucdavis.edu/undergraduate/what-can-i-do-as-a-history-major[/URL]
Yes, if I want to do something like law, journalism or education I'll have to go back to school at some point, but even if you're not going to go back and get another degree to go with your history degree you still have a pretty wide variety of jobs open to you which is pretty much the only advantage a degree in certain liberal arts fields has over something more career focused, although I'm sure taking a more general STEM degree rather than something specific and career focused has the same advantage.[/QUOTE]
our history degrees aren't any more "useful" than philosophy degrees. you should just get used to that and love it for what it is. you didn't major in history for the job prospects anyway. ideally you should feel like the separation of history and literature and philosophy is arbitrary actually hurts them all mutually. it's very silly to rank them like that.
Well at least one STEM job will always be available
the people who have to program the robots :suicide:
[QUOTE=Swilly;48572781]That doesn't create a post scarcity society because we're always going to be in scarcity until we either how to recycle 100% of everything or leave the planet.
We're always going to be hampered by resources and mechanical instruments require more energy and raw resources to create that cannot be replaced.
[editline]30th August 2015[/editline]
Further, richer nations tend to consume more resources so if we do hit a point of 'post scarcity' people will most likely be sucking the planet dry by that point.
We do not have the scientific, cultural, political or economic systems in place at all for any of this automation talk and to be honest I'm against it as I am against the idea or robots replacing workers and transhumanism for the sake of transhumanism.[/QUOTE]
you forget that people are not limited to the resources of the earth, there are enormously rich and powerful men at work [I]right now[/I] whose goal it is to make sure that is the case. either the resources man may exploit expands infinitely, or people will be forced to restrict growth and freedom in the name of conservation. that is unacceptable, therefore an alternative will be found. that alternative lies beyond the bounds of the earth.
also what do you mean you're "against" robots or trans-humanism? like you just don't like it or you think it will somehow be undesirable? because i've got news for you, those things are coming like a tidal wave, no one can stop it, and it's going to sweep us all of us. you cannot fight the future.
[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;48572924]Plus
There's something I find amazing about people who was able to pay themselves a STEM major and are bitching about not finding work in their areas.
Why the fuck don't you emigrate or find jobs in another country?
Argentina companies (Hell, to be honest, Chileans and Brazilians pay more) will KILL each other for:
-An American guy
-Who graduated in America
-And has a degree in a STEM field.
Like, FUCKING KILL.
It amazes me, really.[/QUOTE]
Because moving to another country, let alone another continent, is a massive pain and a big risk. Also, language barrier in your specific example. The average American cannot speak Spanish, and even less speak Portuguese. "Move to another country" isn't a decision you make lightly.
[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;48572326]A math stem major can basically work in any area. Can't say the same for physics, biology or chemistry.[/QUOTE]
Not necessarily true. A lot of people with physics degrees often find themselves working in really weird, non-related areas just because they have good problem solving skills. I imagine it's easier for mathematicians certainly, but it's common for physicists too.
With more people getting bachelor degrees, I've been finding that the status quo for getting a grad job requires a masters degree or the very least honours.
i question how much this will all really mean in the end. they tell us to get useful degrees, to follow on the trail of technology and science because that's where our future is secure, but is it really? the world is changing so fast, in so many ways, this all may turn out to be a folly, a laughably inadequate response to the times for reasons that may not even be apparent yet. we will all be rendered obsolete, in time.
[QUOTE=Porkychop~;48573225]i question how much this will all really mean in the end. they tell us to get useful degrees, to follow on the trail of technology and science because that's where our future is secure, but is it really? the world is changing so fast, in so many ways, this all may turn out to be a folly, a laughably inadequate response to the times for reasons that may not even be apparent yet. we will all be rendered obsolete, in time.[/QUOTE]
Holy shit, the amount of drama in this post is more than a fucking Shakespearean play.
[QUOTE=Porkychop~;48573225]i question how much this will all really mean in the end. they tell us to get useful degrees, to follow on the trail of technology and science because that's where our future is secure, but is it really? the world is changing so fast, in so many ways, this all may turn out to be a folly, a laughably inadequate response to the times for reasons that may not even be apparent yet. we will all be rendered obsolete, in time.[/QUOTE]
Unless we literally discover magic, I don't think tech degrees would be useless.
[QUOTE=Demache;48573162]Because moving to another country, let alone another continent, is a massive pain and a big risk. Also, language barrier in your specific example. The average American cannot speak Spanish, and even less speak Portuguese. "Move to another country" isn't a decision you make lightly.[/QUOTE]
You pick up the language in no time if you are living in a place where you [B]need[/B] to live. Plus, more points, as the relationship between English and Spanish is closer than English and Chinese or any other non-Romance lenguage.
Of course, not all people are willing to take the risk. But then...if you keep complaining about your actual status while believing the economy of a country will change in less than a decade....
EDIT: To clarify, the economy of a developed country.
[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;48573335]You pick up the language in no time if you are living in a place where you [B]need[/B] to live. Plus, more points, as the relationship between English and Spanish is closer than English and Chinese or any other non-Romance lenguage.
Of course, not all people are willing to take the risk. But then...if you keep complaining about your actual status while believing the economy of a country will change in less than a decade....
EDIT: To clarify, the economy of a developed country.[/QUOTE]
Sorry if this sounds rude, but Argentina isn't a place where I would want to be. I guess I would still probably move there though as a last resort, though I'm not in the job-searching market yet.
[QUOTE=Badballer;48573213]With more people getting bachelor degrees, I've been finding that the status quo for getting a grad job requires a masters degree or the very least honours.[/QUOTE]
I'm halfway through a double degree, also following a CPA Australia accreditation pathway, and I'm already considering a MBA haha shiiiiiiiiit
[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;48573335]You pick up the language in no time if you are living in a place where you [B]need[/B] to live. Plus, more points, as the relationship between English and Spanish is closer than English and Chinese or any other non-Romance lenguage.[/QUOTE]
English isn't a romance language, pretty much any Germanic language (especially Dutch) is closer. English makes use of a lot of romance words, but those won't help you with the grammar/sentence structure
[QUOTE=Antdawg;48574002]I'm halfway through a double degree, also following a CPA Australia accreditation pathway, and I'm already considering a MBA haha shiiiiiiiiit[/QUOTE]
don't worry man I know the feeling. I graduated with my double end of last year, doing my CA atm (tax exam next week, kill me now). Good luck with your studies!
[QUOTE=Ziks;48571620]Towards a post-scarcity society[/QUOTE]Kind of hard to have that when you completely wreck society by smashing the shit out of everyone's means to support themselves and their families. Society's going to cut it's nose off to spite it's face with all of this, we're going to automate everything far faster than we'll be able to sustain and civil unrest will completely wreck everything.
[QUOTE=Badballer;48574200]don't worry man I know the feeling. I graduated with my double end of last year, doing my CA atm (tax exam next week, kill me now). Good luck with your studies![/QUOTE]
Thanks, but yeah tax ain't so bad
jk when I did third-year tax it was three hours and open-book and even then fully-grown adults were crying during the exam because open-book = 5,000 pages
[QUOTE=TornadoAP;48572553]Well, if you think about it, communism in it's true form would actually work very well with full automation. Without any money anymore, and all the crucial tasks like manufacturing and agriculture done, Humanity could be left free to do as they wish.[/QUOTE]
Seeing communism in its true form is like observing entropy reversing.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;48574374]Thanks, but yeah tax ain't so bad
jk when I did third-year tax it was three hours and open-book and even then fully-grown adults were crying during the exam because open-book = 5,000 pages[/QUOTE]
haha geez that sounds tough. It'll be me pretty soon. yeah tax isn't really my thing, interesting to know the workings of the system though since it's so integral to everyday life.
Having a super detailed knowledge of it isn't important to me. Even though I'm an accountant, I'm doing data analysis and business intelligence instead. Way more fun.
[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;48572924]Plus
There's something I find amazing about people who was able to pay themselves a STEM major and are bitching about not finding work in their areas.
Why the fuck don't you emigrate or find jobs in another country?
Argentina companies (Hell, to be honest, Chileans and Brazilians pay more) will KILL each other for:
-An American guy
-Who graduated in America
-And has a degree in a STEM field.
Like, FUCKING KILL.
It amazes me, really.[/QUOTE]
I doubt they'd pay wages on equal footing or higher than US standards. And besides, other things in those south american countries are worse than in the US, primarily infrastructure, hospitals, public services.
And few people would accept being far away from their family, relatives, friends, spouses etc.
Moving to other countries is not as easy as you put it. Especially if you don't speak the language or know the customs there.
[QUOTE=TornadoAP;48572553]Well, if you think about it, communism in it's true form would actually work very well with full automation. Without any money anymore, and all the crucial tasks like manufacturing and agriculture done, Humanity could be left free to do as they wish.[/QUOTE]
you know, what you just described is karl marx's historical materialism
[editline]30th August 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=godfatherk;48574503]I doubt they'd pay wages on equal footing or higher than US standards. And besides, other things in those south american countries are worse than in the US, primarily infrastructure, hospitals, public services.
And few people would accept being far away from their family, relatives, friends, spouses etc.
Moving to other countries is not as easy as you put it. Especially if you don't speak the language or know the customs there.[/QUOTE]
well i heard buenos aires is the paris of south america
[QUOTE=lyna;48572697]You're actually wrong about that last part. Math majors do the best on the LSAT out of any other major [url]http://www.math.uh.edu/~tomforde/ConsideringMathMajor.html#Q3[/url][/QUOTE]
I meant it gives you the opportunity, not guarantees your success.
I'd imagine liberal arts majors have one hell of a time with the logic section of the LSAT.
[QUOTE=Snowmew;48574997]I meant it gives you the opportunity, not guarantees your success.
I'd imagine liberal arts majors have one hell of a time with the logic section of the LSAT.[/QUOTE]
i have to ask if this a joke about liberal arts majors being logically retarded? or do you just mean that logic is especially challenging to those not inducted into it? because half of the liberal arts are fundamentally concerned with mathematics as necessary to their methodologies and in the humanities you'll potentially have touched on logical notation as part of analytic philosophy or philosophy in general. Ps and Qs even have a place in linguistics.
[QUOTE=Kommodore;48575276]i have to ask if this a joke about liberal arts majors being logically retarded? or do you just mean that logic is especially challenging to those not inducted into it? because half of the liberal arts are fundamentally concerned with mathematics as necessary to their methodologies and in the humanities you'll potentially have touched on logical notation as part of analytic philosophy or philosophy in general. Ps and Qs even have a place in linguistics.[/QUOTE]
Mathematics majors are more logically adept than liberal arts majors.
The LSAT logic portion is notoriously challenging.
The post I quoted has a source proves that math majors are better than liberal arts majors at the LSAT.
Do I have to spell this out any further...?
[QUOTE=godfatherk;48574503]I doubt they'd pay wages on equal footing or higher than US standards. And besides, other things in those south american countries are worse than in the US, primarily infrastructure, hospitals, public services.
And few people would accept being far away from their family, relatives, friends, spouses etc.
Moving to other countries is not as easy as you put it. Especially if you don't speak the language or know the customs there.[/QUOTE]
Everything here is cheaper than in the US. Which compensates the fact that you are being paid in pesos. And believe me, as it is obvious that you believe so from what you comment, that you will not be living in the Detroit of Argentina. Capital Federal is on par with many American and European cities if you got the money (this is why Arg is not yet a developed country. The capital is there but the distribution is screwed up).
Even if you are not sent to Capital Federal, the life standard of the main cities (Santa Fe, Rosario, etc etc) are better than most other latin american cities.
The only thing I would accept as a reasonable "but" is the political landscape. If it doesnt. Change in october, I would tell you guys to go to Chile, Peru or Brasil.
Again, it will not be easy, I reckon that. But between having a stem major and being a paper pusher in a company in the USA and being a proper investigator/working in my field in a multinational inside Argentina, Im taking the boat.
[editline]30th August 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;48573961]Sorry if this sounds rude, but Argentina isn't a place where I would want to be. I guess I would still probably move there though as a last resort, though I'm not in the job-searching market yet.[/QUOTE]
Dont you worry. Im not staying here. I've already began to plan my future in Germany (or maybe Sweden). So far, got A1 in 6 months, so good.
[QUOTE=Kommodore;48575276]half of the liberal arts are fundamentally concerned with mathematics as necessary to their methodologies[/QUOTE]
Wait, what? What liberal arts degrees have any sort of focus on mathematics? Or am I misunderstanding?
[QUOTE=Trumple;48575780]Wait, what? What liberal arts degrees have any sort of focus on mathematics? Or am I misunderstanding?[/QUOTE]
In certain schools you can be a math major in the liberal arts college.
[QUOTE=Trumple;48575780]Wait, what? What liberal arts degrees have any sort of focus on mathematics? Or am I misunderstanding?[/QUOTE]
you can't study economics, geography, sociology, or political science without statistics and basic prerequisites in science both for the ethics and for competency in basic math. the same goes for music, to a much lesser degree, and linguistics in which syntax and logic is paramount. logic itself is based in the liberal arts tradition and is part of any curriculum in rhetoric and philosophy. in some cases it exists as an arts degree by itself. in history and the arts it's optional to encounter it at all.
i think most people have sort of generalized the humanities as defining the liberal arts itt.
[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;48575578]Everything here is cheaper than in the US. Which compensates the fact that you are being paid in pesos. [/QUOTE]
I just checked the leaflet of DIA supermarkets of Argentina and a 150g bag of chips costs 9pesos, that's 0.9euros
A kg of chicken costs 16pesos, wich comes out at 1,5euros.
80pesos for a kg of vacio meat. that's 7.5 euros.
You've got cheap oranges, 6pesos/kg, that's 0.5euros, but besides that everyother food prise looks the same as you would find in any other supermarket in the EU or US.
And what does renting a ~20m2 one room apt. cost in one of those 3 cities you mentioned?
What's a litre of pump diesel cost?
What's the minimum and the median wage in buenos aires, and in the rest of the country?
And how much should an engineer expect to earn in Buenos Aires or province?
Payscale says the minimum is 6.5keuros/year and median is 10-13k€/year for software engineers.
I think the article in the OP states that in the US it soft. engineer wage starts at ~60k$/year so...
[QUOTE=Kommodore;48575915]you can't study economics, geography, sociology, or political science without statistics and basic prerequisites in science both for the ethics and for competency in basic math. the same goes for music, to a much lesser degree, and linguistics in which syntax and logic is paramount. logic itself is based in the liberal arts tradition and is part of any curriculum in rhetoric and philosophy. in some cases it exists as an arts degree by itself. in history and the arts it's optional to encounter it at all.
i think most people have sort of generalized the humanities as defining the liberal arts itt.[/QUOTE]
Okay but the mathematics required in geography for example is incomparable to that required of a person studying a STEM degree. Economics is a little bit more "mathsy" but even then, it's not anywhere near as involved as what someone might learn studying Mechanical Engineering for instance. Control theory, advanced calculus, and statistics all make up just some of the things a typical STEM graduate might be required to learn, on top of degree-specific maths and other content.
As for the logical, problem-solving abilities - I can't speak for the logic involved in something like Philosophy, but there is a reason banks and other technical employers hire STEM grads over humanities grads even when the STEM grad hasn't studied anything related to banking.
I do agree that humanities and liberal arts are often put in the same mental "bucket", and I think this is because graduates from History, Geography, Philosophy, and Art for example very rarely go into a career directly relating to their degree. In terms of career prospects, what differentiates a Geography grad from a History grad? Or a Philosophy grad from an Art grad? Ask the same question of an Electronics Engineering grad and a Mechanical Engineering grad and the difference is monumental.
no no no i wasnt arguing against any of that i was just reacting to that guy who was like 'i cant even fathom how liberal arts get through the logic portion LSAT'
nor was i even coming close to debating that STEM people arent better equipped, i just wanted to point out that most people don't get through their BA without some kind of general preparedness
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
