As Bitcoin Payouts Halve, Uncertainty Looms - Polidicks

[QUOTE=icarusfoundyou;50470883]Even on its slowest days its still far faster than international SWIFT. How exactly is asset store a joke? You buy some bitcoin, print it in a paper wallet and then use it when you want/need it.[/QUOTE] Except it quickly changes in worth and that's basically the 101 of how not to store your assets. [editline]7th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Sims_doc;50470907]Well, It used to be fast. It just became flooded with custom built mining machines which killed it. Further more group mining suddenly became harder to do because staff would routinely become greedy and prevent users from earning their share.[/QUOTE] Transaction speed does not slow down with increase in mining machines. And we are not talking about complete transaction We are talking about transaction broadcast. Imagine paying with Bitcoin and then you have to wait 30 minutes for confirmation. See this: [url]https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1ly1h3/bitcoin_is_too_slow_for_in_person_transactions/[/url] And that was 2 years ago. With rising TPM it's only bound to get slower

My friend just asked for a grand from three different people saying that he'll pay out 1500 to each. Said he was going to invest all that in bitcoins and pay the loans from his own money. I don't think this is a good idea.

[QUOTE=Killuah;50470979]Except it quickly changes in worth and that's basically the 101 of how not to store your assets. [editline]7th June 2016[/editline] Transaction speed does not slow down with increase in mining machines. And we are not talking about complete transaction We are talking about transaction broadcast. Imagine paying with Bitcoin and then you have to wait 30 minutes for confirmation. See this: [url]https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1ly1h3/bitcoin_is_too_slow_for_in_person_transactions/[/url] And that was 2 years ago. With rising TPM it's only bound to get slower[/QUOTE] With regards to assets it depends on what you're comfortable holding your money in. I'm comfortable in holding it in cryptocurrency. The reason transactions take longer to confirm nowadays is simply that Bitcoin has more users than it can handle. The only reason it can't handle more easily is because of a part of the code that was introduced ages ago to prevent spam transactions. There's a big turbonerd argument over whether to adjust/remove that code or not.

[QUOTE=icarusfoundyou;50471398]With regards to assets it depends on what you're comfortable holding your money in. I'm comfortable in holding it in cryptocurrency. The reason transactions take longer to confirm nowadays is simply that Bitcoin has more users than it can handle. The only reason it can't handle more easily is because of a part of the code that was introduced ages ago to prevent spam transactions. There's a big turbonerd argument over whether to adjust/remove that code or not.[/QUOTE] You being comfortable with holding it in cryptocurrency does not mean it is a good for asset storage. Whatever the reason is, and whatever the "turbonerd" argument is, does not change the fact that transactions take too long to confirm. We can talk more when that changes.

[QUOTE=Fetret;50471424]You being comfortable with holding it in cryptocurrency does not mean it is a good for asset storage. Whatever the reason is, and whatever the "turbonerd" argument is, does not change the fact that transactions take too long to confirm. We can talk more when that changes.[/QUOTE] Again it depends how long term you are on bitcoin. If you're not then store it in a bank or buy gold. "too long" is again a very broad definition. I just sent ~0.2BTC internationally and got 1 confirmation within about 20 minutes--that is sure as fuck faster than everything else out there (for a similar cost there doesn't exist anything else). So yeah, it could be faster which would be great, but even if it takes an hour or two for a confirmation it is still miles and miles ahead of SWIFT or anything similar.

[QUOTE=icarusfoundyou;50471398]With regards to assets it depends on what you're comfortable holding your money in. I'm comfortable in holding it in cryptocurrency. The reason transactions take longer to confirm nowadays is simply that Bitcoin has more users than it can handle. The only reason it can't handle more easily is because of a part of the code that was introduced ages ago to prevent spam transactions. There's a big turbonerd argument over whether to adjust/remove that code or not.[/QUOTE] I'm sure many investors felt comfortable holding their wealth in tulips 400 years ago as well.

The bitcoin slow speed is fixable, developers just need to update source code, also there are alternative payment confirmation networks in development. It will get fixed.

[QUOTE=icarusfoundyou;50471448]Again it depends how long term you are on bitcoin. If you're not then store it in a bank or buy gold. "too long" is again a very broad definition. I just sent ~0.2BTC internationally and got 1 confirmation within about 20 minutes--that is sure as fuck faster than everything else out there (for a similar cost there doesn't exist anything else). So yeah, it could be faster which would be great, but even if it takes an hour or two for a confirmation it is still miles and miles ahead of SWIFT or anything similar.[/QUOTE] What? Faster than anything for confirmation? have you used PayPal? Credit card or EC is almost instant too. Imagine standing in any shop waiting for your payment to actually confirm for 20 minutes [editline]7th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Fourier;50472639]The bitcoin slow speed is fixable, developers just need to update source code, also there are alternative payment confirmation networks in development. It will get fixed.[/QUOTE] There already has been a shism about this in the community and even the dev team, I don't see this happening.

[QUOTE=Killuah;50472823]What? Faster than anything for confirmation? have you used PayPal? Credit card or EC is almost instant too. Imagine standing in any shop waiting for your payment to actually confirm for 20 minutes [editline]7th June 2016[/editline] There already has been a shism about this in the community and even the dev team, I don't see this happening.[/QUOTE] PayPal doesn't work in certain countries. It also charges fees well in excess of what Bitcoin charges (and yeah, I did say for a "similar cost" in my post). Not only that PayPal has a habit of arbitrarily banning users and taking hold of their money for no apparent reason. I'm personally banned from PayPal for life.

[QUOTE=icarusfoundyou;50472873]PayPal doesn't work in certain countries. It also charges fees well in excess of what Bitcoin charges (and yeah, I did say for a "similar cost" in my post). Not only that PayPal has a habit of arbitrarily banning users and taking hold of their money for no apparent reason. I'm personally banned from PayPal for life.[/QUOTE] Arbitrarily?

[QUOTE=Killuah;50472883]Arbitrarily?[/QUOTE] Yes. It is fairly well known that PayPal can decide because "its Tuesday" that they will freeze your funds/account.

[QUOTE=1/4 Life;50466075][URL]https://plutus.it/[/URL] Bitcoin will be as good as real money when this goes live. NFC payments are already accepted in a ton of places.[/QUOTE] i do this already do with a bitcoin debt card [url]https://cryptopay.me/bitcoin-debit-card[/url] [url]https://www.shiftpayments.com/[/url]

[QUOTE=icarusfoundyou;50472873]PayPal doesn't work in certain countries. It also charges fees well in excess of what Bitcoin charges (and yeah, I did say for a "similar cost" in my post). Not only that PayPal has a habit of arbitrarily banning users and taking hold of their money for no apparent reason. I'm personally banned from PayPal for life.[/QUOTE] PayPal charges merchants 2.something% while every credit card processor in the developed world also charges 2.something%. The point of this service is that merchants just accept a debit card transaction, they don't touch the Bitcoin. That's why it's accepted everywhere that accepts NFC payments, because the merchant gets their money and that's all they care about. The merchant still pays the 2~% card fee if you use a Bitcoin-backed debit card, in the same way that the merchant still pays the 2~% PayPal fee if you use PayPal. In neither scenario do you pay any fee. PayPal doesn't charge you for the privilege of paying with PayPal, the bank doesn't charge you for the privilege of using a debit card, and as long as you have decent credit and pay on time, the credit card company doesn't charge you for the privilege of using a credit card. So there's no point in actually arguing about fees because if the merchant doesn't want to deal with the risk in Bitcoin, they're going to be paying a fee no matter what unless they just want to accept cash only.

[QUOTE=J!NX;50466885]The only people who truly have seen benefits from bitcoins are the ones who mined early and got huge cash out of it later on[/QUOTE] Mining never really was profitable, it was always better to just buy the bitcoins and sit on them then to mine them over time. In a gold rush, only 1 lucky lucky miner and a whole lot of pickaxe salesmen get rich...

[QUOTE=Snowmew;50475758]PayPal charges merchants 2.something% while every credit card processor in the developed world also charges 2.something%. The point of this service is that merchants just accept a debit card transaction, they don't touch the Bitcoin. That's why it's accepted everywhere that accepts NFC payments, because the merchant gets their money and that's all they care about. The merchant still pays the 2~% card fee if you use a Bitcoin-backed debit card, in the same way that the merchant still pays the 2~% PayPal fee if you use PayPal. In neither scenario do you pay any fee. PayPal doesn't charge you for the privilege of paying with PayPal, the bank doesn't charge you for the privilege of using a debit card, and as long as you have decent credit and pay on time, the credit card company doesn't charge you for the privilege of using a credit card. So there's no point in actually arguing about fees because if the merchant doesn't want to deal with the risk in Bitcoin, they're going to be paying a fee no matter what unless they just want to accept cash only.[/QUOTE] I was more talking about person to person transactions rather than ecommerce: For instance PayPal charges 4.4% if you want to send under $3000 USD worth of Philippines Pesos. So if you send $3000 USD you're paying $132 USD. That is a pretty significant amount. Even at 2% its still a significant amount. There are a lot of currencies that have higher fees with PayPal, there are also a lot of restrictions and problems with PayPal as well as withdrawal limits. It also offers no features to keep your name obscured from people that you interact with. At one stage PayPal was pretty cool and nifty. I think its easy to see that it could be improved greatly.

[QUOTE=Killuah;50472883]Arbitrarily?[/QUOTE] Yup, lots of stories how PayPal froze money accounts and people never got reason of why.

[QUOTE=Killuah;50472883]Arbitrarily?[/QUOTE] Paypal does ban people arbitrarily as well.

[QUOTE=Doom64hunter;50465118]Are Bitcoins actually used in any legitimate businesses now? Because to me it still looks like some hyped up version of stock, rather than an actual currency, with people trying to speculate on it to make big bucks and the value being highly unstable. The only thing that separates it from stocks/shares in practice is that it's frequently used to buy drugs.[/QUOTE] My dentist here once casually told me as he was cleaning my teeth that he accepts bitcoins as payment.

[QUOTE=smurfy;50465184]What's the reason for this? What's the advantage over just regular money?[/QUOTE] tax avoidance

[QUOTE=wraithcat;50477820]tax avoidance[/QUOTE] I live in a region with 0 income tax. The reason I'm interested in cryptocurrency is as follows: -interesting investment opportunities that work irrespective of borders/amounts etc -banking without a central authority -longevity

[QUOTE=smurfy;50465184]What's the reason for this? What's the advantage over just regular money?[/QUOTE] While the other answers are joking, here's a serious one: Bitcoins allow for very quick transactions for people that live on different parts of the planet. It's significantly quicker than bank transfers, as well as being much safer. Additionally, you don't have to use intermediaries like Paypal, which are known for stealing money. I know a few artists that allow for commissions in bitcoin, because it lets them have money transferred to them in only ~0-20 minutes, with a sub-0.01% tariff Additionally, your money is safe unless your computer itself is compromised, and even then everything is encrypted. If your password(s) get compromised on a website, unlike with paypal it's not sitting there as a gaping liability. Finally, being its own currency, it skips country boundaries that other services have (with fees etc for different currencies) and is truly non-centralized, a currency to Africa is as quick and painless as one to some dude down the street. Hopefully that sheds some light on what bitcoins are useful for.

[QUOTE=phygon;50480169]While the other answers are joking, here's a serious one: Bitcoins allow for very quick transactions for people that live on different parts of the planet. It's significantly quicker than bank transfers, as well as being much safer. Additionally, you don't have to use intermediaries like Paypal, which are known for stealing money. I know a few artists that allow for commissions in bitcoin, because it lets them have money transferred to them in only ~0-20 minutes, with a sub-0.01% tariff Additionally, your money is safe unless your computer itself is compromised, and even then everything is encrypted. If your password(s) get compromised on a website, unlike with paypal it's not sitting there as a gaping liability. Finally, being its own currency, it skips country boundaries that other services have (with fees etc for different currencies) and is truly non-centralized, a currency to Africa is as quick and painless as one to some dude down the street. Hopefully that sheds some light on what bitcoins are useful for.[/QUOTE] Just wait some 10 years, Bitcoin or Etherum will become very useful.

Just because bitcoin has high visibility as being related to illicit activity doesn't mean that's all its good for. I dislike this ignorant notion several have expressed in this thread that bitcoin is only useful for such purposes. [editline]8th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=reedbo;50465743]I think the biggest problem is that if people stop mining because it's no longer profitable then the bitcoin network is going to become very slow.[/QUOTE] If less people are mining, that means its easier and more profitable for those who remain. The idea discussed in the original paper is that people's greed should keep enough computing power being applied to bitcoin. [QUOTE=smurfy;50465184]What's the reason for this? What's the advantage over just regular money?[/QUOTE] If I had to choose a pragmatic reason, I'd say because it resists inflation. From a personal standpoint, I like it because it allows me to have direct control over my money. [QUOTE=Doom64hunter;50465118]Are Bitcoins actually used in any legitimate businesses now?[/QUOTE] Sure, there are places here and there that accept it. I think that once the price manages to stabalize, we'll see much larger adoption. [QUOTE=Doom64hunter;50465118]Because to me it still looks like some hyped up version of stock, rather than an actual currency, with people trying to speculate on it to make big bucks and the value being highly unstable. The only thing that separates it from stocks/shares in practice is that it's frequently used to buy drugs.[/QUOTE] It's more akin to something like silver or gold from an investment standpoint.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/dsw6oXB.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Fourier;50485391][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/dsw6oXB.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Zeke129;50467686]Steam accepts Bitcoin through a third-party service that immediately converts it to USD. The only reason they "accept" Bitcoin is because they can do it without ever having to bother with Bitcoins. If that service went under, they're not going to start processing Bitcoins themselves. I could start up a service that exchanges pocket lint for USD and partner with Steam to let you buy games with pocket lint, but that wouldn't mean Valve considers pocket lint to be a viable currency.[/QUOTE]