Indiegogo Fine Young Capitalists campaign shut down. - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Raidyr;45792057]It's not like you can't go after both though. I guess I can't talk since I haven't made shit. I wish I had the time/knowledge to make well-edited videos.[/QUOTE] It's not like EA didn't somehow beat out Bank of America and Comcast to be called America's Worst Company two years in a row. People talk about it a lot but then some guy always chimes in saying "but what is talking about this on an internet forum from your parent's basement going to do about it?" Well people are talking about it, they're digging up facts, and they're using their wallets. Shit got fucking real. I'd say that breaking the apathy barrier was perhaps the most important development out of all that has happened.

[QUOTE=FlakAttack;45792213]It's not like EA didn't somehow beat out Bank of America and Comcast to be called America's Worst Company two years in a row. People talk about it a lot but then some guy always chimes in saying "but what is talking about this on an internet forum from your parent's basement going to do about it?" Well people are talking about it, they're digging up facts, and they're using their wallets. Shit got fucking real. I'd say that breaking the apathy barrier was perhaps the most important development out of all that has happened.[/QUOTE] It's not like that poll matters though. People try to rationalize their votes with "Well atleast EA responds" but any poll that puts any video game developer next to Bank of (just settled for $17 billion for helping destroy the economy) America is irrelevant anyway. And I don't say that. This is an industry driven by sales which is itself driven by marketing, PR, and appearances. I'm glad these incestuous relationships between "journalists" and game developers are being revealed and this clique of sorts is being pulled into the light. I just want to see the big companies brought to task by people like MundaneMatt and InternetAristocrat who have broken this whole debacle down so thoroughly. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be talking about the indie side of things, I just want to see both at some point. I'm actually listening to an interview right now with MundaneMatt and he mentions that during his time as a freelance journalist, it was well known that Activision threw the best parties. Also talking about how a Kotaku writer did a 180 on Diablo 3's Always Online a year after the game came out, and Angry Joe's massive hype campaign for Aliens Colonial Marines. That's stuff I want to hear more about, perhaps selfishly because I play more AAA games than indie. Here's the [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gIeeK-HQM8"]link [/URL]but its 4 hours so v:v:v

[QUOTE=Raidyr;45792361]It's not like that poll matters though. People try to rationalize their votes with "Well atleast EA responds" but any poll that puts any video game developer next to Bank of (just settled for $17 billion for helping destroy the economy) America is irrelevant anyway. And I don't say that. This is an industry driven by sales which is itself driven by marketing, PR, and appearances. I'm glad these incestuous relationships between "journalists" and game developers are being revealed and this clique of sorts is being pulled into the light. I just want to see the big companies brought to task by people like MundaneMatt and InternetAristocrat who have broken this whole debacle down so thoroughly. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be talking about the indie side of things, I just want to see both at some point. I'm actually listening to an interview right now with MundaneMatt and he mentions that during his time as a freelance journalist, it was well known that Activision threw the best parties. Also talking about how a Kotaku writer did a 180 on Diablo 3's Always Online a year after the game came out, and Angry Joe's massive hype campaign for Aliens Colonial Marines. That's stuff I want to hear more about, perhaps selfishly because I play more AAA games than indie. Here's the [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gIeeK-HQM8"]link [/URL]but its 4 hours so v:v:v[/QUOTE] Yeah I didn't mean to insinuate you said "but what is talking about this on an internet forum from your parent's basement going to do about it?" or anything like it, just going off on a tangent. I think that discussion has happened a lot but not in earnest, not in the way this one has. I'm sure it will, now that the door is open and commentators see that people have a taste for it. I'm sure once all the big game releases start to roll-in as Christmas gets closer it will spur this discussion (mostly due to the shit-tier reviews we always see this time of year). One gamers vs. gaming journalists event I remember is the Devil May Cry reboot (DMC). Gamers hated the shit out of the game, the character, the dialogue, the controls, and just about everything else. Gaming journalists threw our favourite buzzword around a lot (entitled) and said people only cared about the hair color change and some minor, irrelevant details. The tension that created was pretty intense, but not enough to spark anything like this. Another thing on the pile though: I've seen it show up at least a few times in /v/ discussions. Also didn't Angry Joe come right around as soon as he played the game and talk about how shitty it was? I remember he was pretty hyped and then pretty pissed.

Also something that interview points out is the interesting community dynamics going on between the two loosely defined "sides" of this internet video game political battle. When Sarkeesian blew up she played it perfectly by insulating herself from the criticism and letting the internet hate machine give her free publicity because people didn't know how these mechanisms worked. It also helped that what she got infamous for wasn't a fraction of what Quinn did but nonetheless, a larger portion of her detractors were openly hostile and she didn't entertain the notion of interacting with anyone who wasn't sympathetic to her ear. The result was the exact opposite of what her detractors wanted: Massive, mainstream popularity and a Kickstarter that met it's goal 8 times over. People learned though. Early in on this controversy the call to keep it non-personal went out early and it'd be pretty difficult now to call the harassers and supposed doxxers anywhere near influential enough on the conversation. Quinn and her associates were also superfluously transparent in their various partnerships, with people defending Quinn and linking to her personal Patreon in the same Tweets. Not just people but big names in the games industry. Instead of insulating themselves, Quinn and Fish jumped right in the middle of it because they thrive on this kind of attention. Sarkeesian was far less shady and less controversial than Quinn but the amount of personal abuse and harassment has decreased markedly. Polygon and Kotaku tried playing the same game as they did before but everyone looks around, doesn't see blatant misogyny and harassment but a conversation about corruption in games journalism, and no one bites the clickbait. There is certainly some mudslinging but not enough for it to overcome the critical mass of the conversation already taking place. [editline]25th August 2014[/editline] /v/ went from the board where people passed around a game where you beat up Anita Sarkeesian to making Vivian James.

People love a sex scandal. If someone posted proof that Bobby Kotick went to S&M dungeons to lick Adam Sessler's testicles or whatever then that'd eclipse this pretty rapidly.

People pretty much expected the AAA field to be steeped in nepotism. It's very hard to fight it, because it's not just personal relationships: it's lots and lots of money. Major corporations can just throw money and sponsorship at whoever they want, and it can affect things drastically in their favor. It's very hard to fight, so the most people can collectively do is just simply say, "Yeah, this is fucked up," and complain about it when they can by making the issue more visible. Indie development is a [i]totally[/i] different ballgame. People thought that indie development had much less restraints, and that people had friendly [i]professional[/i] relationships in the field. Instead, we're finding out that people have professional relationships that are way, way too friendly. Many people also thought that the indie scene was extremely progressive, and was attempting to put SJ forward because indie devs [i]legitimately[/i] cared about SJ. Instead, we're finding out that a lot of "SJ" folks in indie are just opportunists: Zoe Quinn was willing to shut down a feminist project since she didn't like it, and people like Phil Fish are more than happy to shout down a sexual harassment victim while simultaneously complaining about sexual harassment in gaming. Most people were willing to draw a line in the sand between AAA and indie, as long as indie was striving to make a better video game field. And most people were willing to overlook small issues with nepotism, as long as the overall field was better. A lot of gamers figured something was fucked up when Papers Please lost to Depression Quest in IDG, but most people figured it was in honor of Zoe's mental health struggles - not because Zoe Quinn [i]literally[/i] fucked one of the people on the board. Yeah, everyone knew the elite indie circlejerk had problems, but we all generally thought they were still being professional and just cliquish. Instead we're finding that they've been abusing their exclusionary position to fuck people over and do things for career gains, regardless of what they stand for. As I've said before, TFYC was the final straw for a lot of feminists. A lot of people said "fuck this, I'm out of here" when the producer provided more substantial proof that Zoe Quinn told journalists not to cover a [i]feminist[/i] event. And I'm literally furious that Papers, Please - a game that [b]actually[/b] explores trans issues in a very reasonable way - has gotten sideswiped by the same people that claim to be allies towards trans issues. I'm definitely not the only one, there are a lot of SJ people who think Zoe Quinn and her Nice Guy Allies(tm) can go fuck themselves for exploiting us for their personal gain. You [b]do not[/b] get to weaponize us to build your cred, then literally fuck us over when a game is up for nomination that covers transgender issues. [QUOTE=Raidyr;45792476]Sarkeesian was far less shady and less controversial than Quinn but the amount of personal abuse and harassment has decreased markedly. Polygon and Kotaku tried playing the same game as they did before but everyone looks around, doesn't see blatant misogyny and harassment but a conversation about corruption in games journalism, and no one bites the clickbait. There is certainly some mudslinging but not enough for it to overcome the critical mass of the conversation already taking place.[/QUOTE] Yes, I definitely agree with this. I've been in contact with Qrios for the past couple of days, he's commented on my numerous threads in SRSGaming, and I saw him talk to 500+ 4chan members last night. He's prefaced all his conversations by telling people to [b]stop harassing women[/b], it's only going to hurt our cause and get people upset. Once harassment is out of the picture, everyone will be forced to talk about nepotism. Especially when people who have been respectful, i.e. ReviewTech, start to speak out about it. Also, re Sarkeesian: There's a lot of things that separate Sarkeesian from Quinn. Love her or hate her, Sarkeesian really does seem to be a pretty decent person, and she cares [i]very deeply[/i] about her feminist beliefs. There are some valid criticisms about TvW regarding delayed releases, borrowed footage, and a lack of current content, but those are all issues that are very minor and do not reflect personally on Sarkeesian as a whole. Likewise, everything going on right now is already becoming much more organized than anything ever was against Sarkeesian's videos. People are [i]really[/i] pissed now, and they're starting to find out that they have every right to be. The deeper the rabbit hole goes, the more and more proof that everyone in the indie side of journalism was playing dirty pool. What really astonishes me is how sloppy this is. Did these editors and writers think they weren't going to get caught? 75% of the information being dug up is completely public. All you have to do is look into patreon, look into editorial staff, and look into editorial policy. It's that simple. I'm an editorial director for a critically acclaimed college mag. The publication has nominated in international contests before and has connections from corporations in the fashion industry. If I saw this shit going on at my publication, I'd be furious. Don't fuck around with this shit, take your work seriously or get out. Not to mention, Sarkeesian isn't an idiot. Notice how she came out against the doxxing and nude leaks, talked about sexual harassment in gaming, and then essentially battened down the hatches and backed the fuck away. Everyone else who doesn't have much at stake in the industry - slowbeef, voidburger, among others - are doing the same thing. I think a lot of people realized that something huge was coming up. It's no coincidence that there's a pretty staunch line between feminists who are still defending Quinn, and feminists who have put on complete radio silence (hint: the former are in the industry, the latter are not). It seems to be /v/ is going all in for this. There were 500+ people listening to Eron last night from /v/ alone. People [b]really[/b] care about this. It's not just some internet drama, because this thing ended up connecting back to issues in the indie scene that are half a decade old. Literally, it's getting to the point where all you need to do is point a finger at a popular indie dev, and figure out how they either a.) got fucked over by Zoe and the indie circlejerk, or b.) are complicit in the corruption and policy breaches that are being discovered. It's really disgusting, and the indie circlejerk went about this so sloppily that everything is getting discovered pretty quickly.

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;45786443]Money has no odor. If this whole affair managed to make 4chan donate to something they usually hate with a burning passion then I'd say there's at least one good thing that came out of this.[/QUOTE] 4chan doesn't hate women in games "with a burning passion"

4chan didn't like Anita's campaign because it asked for money to tell people that there is a feminist problem in the games industry. 4chan liked TFYC's campaign because it asked for money to test out their solution to a feminist problem in the games industry. 4chan likes TFYC because they don't dance around the problem and complain that nobody is doing anything to fix it, they attack the problem head on themselves.

[QUOTE=Simski;45793482]4chan didn't like Anita's campaign because it asked for money to tell people that there is a feminist problem in the games industry. 4chan liked TFYC's campaign because it asked for money to test out their solution to a feminist problem in the games industry. 4chan likes TFYC because they don't dance around the problem and complain that nobody is doing anything to fix it, they attack the problem head on themselves.[/QUOTE] Pretty much. Contrary to what a lot of people might think, 4chan is filled with the average 15-30 year old. /v/ is just a board for people who like videogames, so it shouldn't really be a surprise that most 4channers don't hate women. People like to paint 4chan as some scary site, the final boss of the internet or whatever, but it's really just an imageboard where a bunch of bored young people hang out and let off some steam.

4chan also really hates having messages shoved down their throats. They don't like people telling them how to feel, and they don't like people telling them to change. What TFYC are doing is showing the world an example of games that women helped making, so that the world themselves can decide that these are actually good ideas. 4chan likes this because they're not being lectured about what to think, they're given something they can try out themselves and then decide what to think.

I'd have a lot more respect for sarkee if she actually did something like tfyc instead of making videos where she complained about the color of screwdrivers in Lego sets

[QUOTE=Simski;45793578]4chan also really hates having messages shoved down their throats. They don't like people telling them how to feel, and they don't like people telling them to change. What TFYC are doing is showing the world an example of games that women helped making, so that the world themselves can decide that these are actually good ideas. 4chan likes this because they're not being lectured about what to think, they're given something they can try out themselves and then decide what to think.[/QUOTE] In that aspect they're probably right too, because a lecture on a topic might educate people but if it provides no solutions, they'll just move into the impotent state that most social justice is in right now. Despite whatever criticisms I have about Anita, just the format of being educational rather than getting shit done is what makes it pointless.

From the comments that 4chan gets I think there's people who look at the website and those who browse the site as some green troll or ogre that is the lowest, basic, life form in existence, which use animal instincts and lash out at those that come too close. However, I find that in most cases I find the Hulk to be more fitting; a person that is capable of having a normal discussion, but when provoked is a force capable of doing incredible amounts of damage.

[QUOTE=Simski;45793578]4chan also really hates having messages shoved down their throats. They don't like people telling them how to feel, and they don't like people telling them to change. What TFYC are doing is showing the world an example of games that women helped making, so that the world themselves can decide that these are actually good ideas. 4chan likes this because they're not being lectured about what to think, they're given something they can try out themselves and then decide what to think.[/QUOTE] It's one of my favourite things about 4chan. They're fiercely independent. They want to be who they want to be and they don't want some social justice warrior telling them how to act. One of the reasons that, for lack of a better word, that 4chan got triggered so hard by zoegate is people deliberately trying to influence their own thought and manipulate them. All this corruption leaves a very bad taste in their mouth.

[QUOTE=Simski;45793482]4chan didn't like Anita's campaign because it asked for money to tell people that there is a feminist problem in the games industry. 4chan liked TFYC's campaign because it asked for money to test out their solution to a feminist problem in the games industry. 4chan likes TFYC because they don't dance around the problem and complain that nobody is doing anything to fix it, they attack the problem head on themselves.[/QUOTE] Don't forget that Anita is also a fraud who deceived people into giving her money by lying about her love of gaming, and that a lot of the points she raises are unfounded and outright ridiculous due to her lack of actual knowledge of games.

4chan found some old tweets from Zoe about TFYC and the blow-up from a couple months ago: [url]http://topsy.com/s?q=%20from%3Athequinnspiracy&sort=-date&mintime=1393621256&maxtime=1393707605[/url] [thumb]http://i.imgur.com/jHa0cGQ.png[/thumb] "Fuck this feminist charity! I didn't read the policy close enough and didn't realize they were always trans-inclusive, so I'm just gonna yell at them! Donate to us via patreon instead!" No wonder why these things haven't gotten off the ground before :v:

[QUOTE=Reimu;45793701]4chan found some old tweets from Zoe about TFYC and the blow-up from a couple months ago: [url]http://topsy.com/s?q=%20from%3Athequinnspiracy&sort=-date&mintime=1393621256&maxtime=1393707605[/url] [thumb]http://i.imgur.com/jHa0cGQ.png[/thumb] "Fuck this feminist charity! I didn't read the policy close enough and didn't realize they were always trans-inclusive, so I'm just gonna yell at them! Donate to us via patreon instead!" No wonder why these things haven't gotten off the ground before :v:[/QUOTE] That comment that they should join her Patreon instead of donating to to TFYC really got me going.

I've been reading about her past on her Tumblr. She reminds me a lot of a Law and Order Criminal Intent perp that would have a rough upbringing and scam her way up to a decent position, then blow it by doing something stupid. Goren would get a confession out of her by pointing out all of her inadequacies in front of her and her friends, insinuate her entire life is compensating for being raised by a biker dad in Bumfuck, NY, and yell about how pathetic she is enough to make her confess.

It got better. Zoe said she only tweeted about it a couple times, but the truth is she flooded her own twitter with trying to make these folks look bad. [thumb]http://i.imgur.com/n8EvAsb.png[/thumb]

I swear, Snickers could make a whole series of commercials about this. Everyone needs a damn snickers.

[QUOTE=Swilly;45793906]I swear, Snickers could make a whole series of commercials about this. Everyone needs a damn snickers.[/QUOTE] Remember this, speaking of which? [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuDqraUlUcM[/media] I want someone to make that but with Zoe's tweets above :v:

[QUOTE=Reimu;45793912]Remember this, speaking of which? [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuDqraUlUcM[/media] I want someone to make that but with Zoe's tweets above :v:[/QUOTE] It needs to be the tetris theme.

-snipsnip-

[QUOTE=Reimu;45793979]Today is my free day and I'm really itching to dig into this controversy. I'm gonna do it, post it on my account with 800+ views, and end it with all the times she uses "transwoman" just to show how shitty of an ally she is.[/QUOTE] Do it. Do it. Do i-Oh fuck classes.

oe is so fucked, and I mean it figuratively. I knew TFYC were right about her abuse towards her.

[QUOTE=Reimu;45793979]Today is my free day and I'm really itching to dig into this controversy. I'm gonna do it, post it on my account with 800+ views, and end it with all the times she uses "transwoman" just to show how shitty of an ally she is.[/QUOTE] needs to be similarly well edited

[QUOTE=Reimu;45793863]It got better. Zoe said she only tweeted about it a couple times, but the truth is she flooded her own twitter with trying to make these folks look bad. [thumb]http://i.imgur.com/n8EvAsb.png[/thumb][/QUOTE] what exactly does it mean "you need to transition before the start" does that mean you need to have srs or just identify as a girl or.. i do not understand. can someone explain

I think she is fucked in the head, that is why you can't explain.

After all this I've concluded Zoe doesn't care about games, women, or journalism at all. Only herself.

[QUOTE=zerothefallen;45794279]what exactly does it mean "you need to transition before the start" does that mean you need to have srs or just identify as a girl or.. i do not understand. can someone explain[/QUOTE] People are saying TFYC's policy on Trans women wasn't properly defined back then, but on their site it says that "You just have to identify as a woman. No surgery required." and then go on to explain what transitioning could mean.