Indiegogo Fine Young Capitalists campaign shut down. - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Bradyns;45783769]Just when I thought this issue might start to lay down and die.. some motherfucker comes in with a defibrillator.[/QUOTE] The Striesand effect is in full swing. All the censoring and blatant lying going around? This isn't going down any time soon.

[QUOTE=Mr. N;45785553]Are they at least putting it back up? The whole project looked pretty neat.[/QUOTE] The stream just ended, I remember him (The 'Admin') saying he wants to recover the original one.

As far as I understand, he seems to let the campaign continue right where it left off before the hacking... he's just waiting for support to fix it.

-snipsnip-

Simpler tl;dr from the livestream: He was hacked, Indiegogo support is slow on Sundays and at 4-8 AM, and Matt, i.e. The guy behind the project, is apparently pretty fucking kewl. No money was lost, project ongoing. Nothing has changed besides everyone being able to put a voice to the man, who's overall the right guy to have been making this in the first place. Expect someone to post a link to a recording of the stream once one's actually, y'know, uploaded.

Man, this really sucks. Hopefully they'll choose a more secure password this time, 8 characters is pretty short. They probably know to have a better password now, though. Not to make light of the situation, but this seems kind of cheesy: [quote]Yesterday /v/ created a daughter Vivian James she is a rich multi dimensional character that embodies the ideals of the production. I feel that /v/ has created something powerful here, that transcends TFYC all together. [/quote] TFYC seems pretty naive. That's not anything against them, I wish them the best, it's just an observation.

[QUOTE=Worldwaker;45785789]Simpler tl;dr from the livestream: He was hacked, Indiegogo support is slow on Sundays and at 4-8 AM, and Matt, i.e. The guy behind the project, is apparently pretty fucking kewl. No money was lost, project ongoing. Nothing has changed besides everyone being able to put a voice to the man, who's overall the right guy to have been making this in the first place. Expect someone to post a link to a recording of the stream once one's actually, y'know, uploaded.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.twitch.tv/gengame/b/561433761[/url] almost 4 hours of Matt speaking by himself in response to chat. The host tried to do his best at video games but ended up failing quite a few times :v:

[QUOTE=Worldwaker;45785789]The guy behind the project, is apparently pretty fucking kewl. No money was lost, project ongoing. Nothing has changed besides everyone being able to put a voice to the man, who's overall the right guy to have been making this in the first place. [/QUOTE] Yeah, they seem pretty chill, /v/ accidentally sent them porn of that Vivian character they came up with and they were fine with it :v: ([url]http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/816/363/e9f.png[/url], bottom of the image)

[QUOTE=Reimu;45785744]I'll be home in 10 and do a huge debrief. I also have a bunch of tl;Dr summary posts that I can dump that I wrote up for SRS. Speaking if wguxg, if you haven't been on SRSGaming yet: go on there and see what people are talking about. Talk about a 180 in views and a move towards nuance.[/QUOTE] they really don't seem to be much different, "vindictive ex-boyfriend" seems to be a popular phrase right now. also, does anyone know what evidence there was of Zoe Quinn being harassed in the first place (when DQ was released)? as far as I can tell, it was just her word on twitter? I'm inclined to believe people when they say they're harassed out of common decency, at least to their face - but these claims about her being emotionally abusive, threatening suicide etc. are then at least as valid as her original claims. in fact there's more evidence, due to screenshots, chatlogs, all that stuff. I don't see why people who think it's reasonable to believe Quinn about her original harassment would think it's unreasonable to believe these accusations.

This is just gross. This has reached a level of retardation that's actually legally punishable.

I'd love to make a game with Vivian James as the protagonist

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45785868]Actually it hit that point a while ago. Which is why several people don't believe the stories that are being told, as any sane person would have filed charges days ago.[/QUOTE] Then again this is the gaming/indie community, people will actively cover up stuff that could be considered crimes in any other context and refuse to file charges because if they do they'll basically be kicked out of the industry forever. Which is why so many video game journalism websites and communities are sucking up to Zoe Quinn and indie devs in general, they don't want to get a shit reputation among devs and lose benefits of getting free review copies and such. Just remember when Phil Fish cancelled fez 2 and ran off with the money, and the sole reaction from his producers were "he probably has his reasons and we won't sue".

-snipsnip-

Its seems like everything is getting stuffed up with bad blood and nepotism.

[QUOTE=Laferio;45783594][img]http://puu.sh/b5Aqy/5237422c49.png[/img] are you fucking serious really[/QUOTE] If this doesn't scream scapegoating, I don't know what will [editline]24th August 2014[/editline] Unless it's some really upset idiot on /v/ who hates all the vivian threads being spammed, but there's too many possible parties that could be behind this

[QUOTE=Propane Addict;45785512]No self-respecting company would write something as childish as that. If it's not a fake, I think we need to take a step back and seriously reconsider indiegogo as someone to handle obscene amounts of money.[/QUOTE] I 100% agree. This was obviously a situation where someone broke into the account and hacked it. I have seen absolutely zero reason why TFYC would do this to themselves, and the only people who have made that claim seem to be doing so from a knee-jerk reaction. TFYC has a real lot to lose by playing along with the drama that's been going on. They're basically a charity start-up with multiple projects, and they've already had enough bullshit to deal with in the past week alone. Plus, there's absolutely no reason why TFYC would want to piss off 4chan, and there's no reason why TFYC would want to take the money and run. Again, TFYC's team are all professionals with careers. Especially their producer, who does this for a living. They have way too much to lose to get involved in any drama. I think someone purposefully hacked TFYC. I'm positive the campaign will be back up, and the money will all come back, but someone is going to be [b]seriously[/b] responsible for this. Fucking with a crowdfunding project is serious. Fucking around with a $10k+ crowdfunding campaign is grounds for a lawsuit. Fucking with a $10k+ crowdfunding with the majority of funds coming from [i]4chan[/i] is a death wish. I'm positive he's going to go to the Canadian authorities to find out who hacked into his business account, which is probably not what Phil Fish, Zoe Quinn, or anyone else is currently doing. And he's talked about using lawyers and legal implications in the past, so I don't doubt for a second that TFYC will do their legal research. So that brings us to the next question: who would do this? I only really see two answers: A.) A total stranger who is looking to piss off everyone, and targeting key figures to do that. B.) Someone close to, affiliated with, or supporting Quinn. I don't doubt Qrios when he says that there is a lot to gain from doxxing at this point. The whole entire gaming community is really angry and depressed about this, and, as someone pointed out in the last thread, this entire situation is basically an enormous game of jenga waiting to crash. If you're a black hat with some free time on your hands, there is a lot of mayhem you can cause each day. Seriously, it's been a very long time since so many people were on edge, and fights keep on breaking out all over the gaming community. Even in SJ circles, everyone is pissed off. There is just so much potential to make things worse and worse each day, and the community only really needs one false move for this whole entire thing to explode beyond what we've currently seen. Which leads me to my next point. Yes, I do actually think there's a very high chance that Quinn - or someone linked to Quinn - would hack TFYC. This is one of the reasons why I brought up SRSGaming, actually: TFYC is one of the [i]major[/i] blows to Quinn's feminist record. The interviews with the TFYC producer show Quinn pulling strings and preventing a feminist project from getting off the ground. It's not just nepotism, it's nepotism that actively prevents a feminist project from getting supported within the industry. I think TFYC is a very decisive point for many people, because most SJ folks see absolutely [b]no reason[/b] to shut down TFYC. Yes, there are problems, but the staff were a.) more than willing to fix things, b.) more than willing to engage with call out's and critical discourse, and c.) really not creating as many problems as people thought. Face it, there are a lot more problematic SJ programs out there, TFYC is actually relatively close to being intersectional compared to some. Plus, TFYC actually has the potential to bring non-Western devs into the gaming indie industry, which is honestly something [b]more progressive[/b] than half the shit the current indie elite have done. Seriously, when was the last time Phil Fish talked about South American devs? Don't get me started on how Quinn weaponized trans identities either in her call out. That's a low blow to me, a trans person who supports TFYC. She should [b]not[/b] have been leading that call out; she should have stepped aside and let a trans dev do it. That's another issue, and one most indie devs on her side are ignoring. From there, well, I'm not sure what else to say. The SJ communities are gradually taking a more nuanced look at things, but I think the community is literally going to devour itself over this until mods come in and say, "Enough is enough." TFYC is getting dragged into some Game of Thrones bullshit, and 4chan's money was challenged. Feminists have a lot of reasons to be suspicious of Quinn's motivations, and Qrios is being 10x more open about things than Quinn is. I honestly do think there is a lot of malicious intent in this hack, and this is just making things much worse.

[QUOTE=Reimu;45786146] I only really see two answers: A.) A total stranger who is looking to piss off everyone, and targeting key figures to do that. B.) Someone close to, affiliated with, or supporting Quinn. [/QUOTE] Agree with these two, but I'd be more specific and wager that it was a /v/ user instead of a total stranger.

[QUOTE=The Aussie;45784187]Not unpopular opinion, an opinion that blatantly spits in the face of evidence. If you've even been casually following this case you would have realised that it's pretty fucking apparent that something is very, very rotten in the games journalism industry. Stop white knighting for Zoe, it isn't just about her anymore. It's about the industry at large.[/QUOTE] In which way is Zoe Quinn a "threat for the video games industry at large"? How is the independent developer of an educational free game a threat?

[QUOTE=Raidyr;45786162]Agree with these two, but I'd be more specific and wager that it was a /v/ user instead of a total stranger.[/QUOTE] It's a possibility. There are some /v/ users that are upset with the Vivian James and TFYC stuff. Although this doesn't really seem like a /v/ kind of style, especially with the old internet meme and most of the indiego being untouched. I haven't seen a lot of /v/ hacks, so I'm not a total expert. But, from what I remember, /v/'s style is to add a lot of humor into their hacks. Like changing the stretch goals to jokes, and etc. I think if it was someone from /v/, they would go out of their way to make it clever [editline]24th August 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;45786203]In which way is Zoe Quinn a "threat for the video games industry at large"? How is the independent developer of an educational free game a threat?[/QUOTE] Agreeing with Max here. When it comes to nepotism, it's not Zoe Quinn, but what she represents within the indie gaming industry: industry contacts allowing devs and insiders to pull strings in ways that hurt the smaller, indie gaming community. And even then, it's not "gaming industry" so much as the independent industry. I can't think of any major AAA devs who have gotten pulled into this, aside from the few who have put their hat into the ring (i.e. Cliff B). Most of the people at BioWare, for instance, are just hunkering down and waiting for this to blow over.

[QUOTE=Reimu;45786204]Agreeing with Max here. When it comes to nepotism, it's not Zoe Quinn, but what she represents within the indie gaming industry: industry contacts allowing devs and insiders to pull strings in ways that hurt the smaller, indie gaming community. And even then, it's not "gaming industry" so much as the independent industry. I can't think of any major AAA devs who have gotten pulled into this, aside from the few who have put their hat into the ring (i.e. Cliff B). Most of the people at BioWare, for instance, are just hunkering down and waiting for this to blow over.[/QUOTE] Meanwhile, big AAA editors effectively have the financial power to get editors and writers fired from their job if they don't give 9,5/10 to every huge release... but no, let's direct our outrage at this one Kotaku writer because he mentioned "Depression Quest" three times in [URL="http://tmi.kotaku.com/the-indie-game-reality-tv-show-that-went-to-hell-1555599284/+patriciahernandez"]an article[/URL] that's just an [URL="http://indiestatik.com/2014/03/31/most-expensive-game-jam/"]IndieStatik [/URL]copy-paste job. If you want to get outraged at games journalism Zoe Quinn is quite possibly the most counter-productive and misguided angle on the subject. And there's plenty of bad things to say about game journalism.

[QUOTE=Reimu;45786204]It's a possibility. There are some /v/ users that are upset with the Vivian James and TFYC stuff. Although this doesn't really seem like a /v/ kind of style, especially with the old internet meme and most of the indiego being untouched. I haven't seen a lot of /v/ hacks, so I'm not a total expert. But, from what I remember, /v/'s style is to add a lot of humor into their hacks. Like changing the stretch goals to jokes, and etc. I think if it was someone from /v/, they would go out of their way to make it clever [editline]24th August 2014[/editline] Agreeing with Max here. When it comes to nepotism, it's not Zoe Quinn, but what she represents within the indie gaming industry: industry contacts allowing devs and insiders to pull strings in ways that hurt the smaller, indie gaming community. And even then, it's not "gaming industry" so much as the independent industry. I can't think of any major AAA devs who have gotten pulled into this, aside from the few who have put their hat into the ring (i.e. Cliff B). Most of the people at BioWare, for instance, are just hunkering down and waiting for this to blow over.[/QUOTE] if it was /v/, there would be a reference to 4chan being a cathedral of misogyny.

[QUOTE=Reimu;45786204]Agreeing with Max here. When it comes to nepotism, it's not Zoe Quinn, but what she represents within the indie gaming industry: industry contacts allowing devs and insiders to pull strings in ways that hurt the smaller, indie gaming community. And even then, it's not "gaming industry" so much as the independent industry. I can't think of any major AAA devs who have gotten pulled into this, aside from the few who have put their hat into the ring (i.e. Cliff B). Most of the people at BioWare, for instance, are just hunkering down and waiting for this to blow over.[/QUOTE] I agree about this not being about Zoe Quinn anymore. I hate to use this analogy so I hope you don't think I'm trivializing the tragedy that happened in Missouri, but in a way Zoe Quinn is the Michael Brown of video game journalism, in that a lot of people are arguing about what Zoe Quinn or what Michael Brown may or may not have done, when in reality it's about a lot of pent up frustration that sorta boiled over all at once, and the reaction by the parties involved paint a clear picture that something is wrong. The FPD was arresting journalists to avoid the truth from getting out, and on the Quinnspiracy side journalists and moderators on sites like Kotaku and Reddit are lying to and censoring people who are trying to criticize the events that took place. It's not about just Zoe Quinn in this case, or just Michael Brown or Darren Wilson in the other; it's about widespread and obvious corruption coming to light, and people are unhappy about it. They are both textbook examples of the Streisand Effect Again, I feel bad about using that analogy because it sorta trivializes the events in Ferguson but I feel like it's the most apt way to put it.

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;45786203]In which way is Zoe Quinn a "threat for the video games industry at large"? How is the independent developer of an educational free game a threat?[/QUOTE] If even a minor indie developer can get away with using personal influence to ensure good publicity and shut down competing projects, what could a dedicated PR team for a larger developer do? There's clearly a major problem with nepotism and corruption and a complete lack of journalistic integrity involved, and the fact that someone as ultimately irrelevant as Quinn could use personal contacts to censor criticism and hurt TFYC shows just how broken the system is.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;45786279]if it was /v/, there would be a reference to 4chan being a cathedral of misogyny.[/QUOTE] I don't think it "was /v/", most /v/ users seem to like the Vivian/TFYC/Indiegogo campaign. I think it was one /v/ user who didn't and hacked it to rile things up. [editline]24th August 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=catbarf;45786324]If even a minor indie developer can get away with using personal influence to ensure good publicity and shut down competing projects, what could a dedicated PR team for a larger developer do? [/QUOTE] Give journalists free game systems and tablets and airline tickets to luxurious press events. I think that's kinda Max's point.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;45786304]I agree about this not being about Zoe Quinn anymore. I hate to use this analogy so I hope you don't think I'm trivializing the tragedy that happened in Missouri, but in a way Zoe Quinn is the Michael Brown of video game journalism, in that a lot of people are arguing about what Zoe Quinn or what Michael Brown may or may not have done, when in reality it's about a lot of pent up frustration that sorta boiled over all at once, and the reaction by the parties involved paint a clear picture that something is wrong. The FPD was arresting journalists to avoid the truth from getting out, and on the Quinnspiracy side journalists and moderators on sites like Kotaku and Reddit are lying to and censoring people who are trying to criticize the events that took place. It's not about just Zoe Quinn in this case, or just Michael Brown or Darren Wilson in the other; it's about widespread and obvious corruption coming to light, and people are unhappy about it. They are both textbook examples of the Streisand Effect Again, I feel bad about using that analogy because it sorta trivializes the events in Ferguson but I feel like it's the most apt way to put it.[/QUOTE] A bettery analogy would've been something like she was the match that lit the powderkeg. Or the domino that fell over and its toppling everyone else down with it. House of cards, she was the glitch that caused Chernobyl. yadda yadda yadda.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;45786326]I don't think it "was /v/", most /v/ users seem to like the Vivian/TFYC/Indiegogo campaign. I think it was one /v/ user who didn't and hacked it to rile things up. [/QUOTE] that seems kinda unfounded we had that fuck on twitter giving out the personal information of the people insulting zoe, who's to say it wasn't someone on that side of the "war against indie devs"?

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;45786354]that seems kinda unfounded we have that fuck on twitter giving out the personal information of the people insulting zoe, who's to say it wasn't someone on that side of the "war against indie devs"?[/QUOTE] I think that's a possibility too, I said I agreed with Reimu said on that front. [QUOTE] B.) Someone close to, affiliated with, or supporting Quinn.[/QUOTE] I just don't think it's a total stranger.

When it comes back, I'll be donating 15 bucks to the TYFC Game Jam.

This is actually quite sad. /v/ jumps in on a cause to bring about more equality in gaming development, and some cunt either affiliated with Quinn or just doing this for shits and giggles comes in and wrecks everything. God damn if people try to help women be a bigger part of the video game industry.

[QUOTE=Swilly;45786373]When it comes back, I'll be donating 15 bucks to the TYFC Game Jam.[/QUOTE] I probably will too, if just to spite whoever took it down