[QUOTE=amute;30367107]But the issue is, in an American hospital, you can wait anywhere between an hour to 7 hours. In a Canadian hospital, it's like 45 minutes to 10 hours. It's the same waiting time range. Same with England, France, Scandinavia. Waiting times are a non-sequitur.[/QUOTE]
hmm, i guess it all depends on where you are, the longest iv ever waited for emergency care in the united states was 30 minutes, but i assume that a place like l.a. or n.y. might be longer
[quote]Yeah accept, a lot of doctors cut corners, over prescribe medicine, fuck people with medical bills etc, so no, making money off the sick isn't really a good thing.[/quote]thats being a bad doctor, it is caused by incompetence or apathy, not greed or compassion
i mean logically, you would think a greedy money grubbing doctor would try and work as hard as he could so that he could make even more money with his reputation and skill, right?
greed is a great driving force and it shouldnt be hated, only controlled. some of the best inventions and ideas comes from competition and greed, as long as it is kept in check and doesnt become a threat to the general public i see no problem with some healthy greed and ambition
[editline]10th June 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=DesolateGrun;30367124]I don't understand why people hate the Health Care law, it helps everyone. Maybe the poor more but so what, they can't afford the 50,000$ procedure to have a heart transplant, they can't buy a fucking 2 million dollar home, and they don't have 100$ in their wallets as spare change. Money is hard to come by for most of America, so this should help out on those who can't pay for their health.[/QUOTE]
i currently have no income but the health care bill doesnt help me at all, and it really doesnt help many poor uninsured people because they will simply continue without healthcare
[QUOTE=Occlusion;30351441]Glaber, doesn't Europe show that healthcare works? It's great in the UK. I've never heard anyone over here say it's "infringing on their rights".[/QUOTE]
That's because in the UK they are subjects and not citizens, they have no infringable rights, all their rights come from acts of parliament and even then they have this disturbingly bliss attitude when it comes to even those petty rights in which they willingly wave them at a drop of a Police man's hat with no questions
[editline]10th June 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=DesolateGrun;30367124]I don't understand why people hate the Health Care law, it helps everyone. Maybe the poor more but so what, they can't afford the 50,000$ procedure to have a heart transplant, they can't buy a fucking 2 million dollar home, and they don't have 100$ in their wallets as spare change. Money is hard to come by for most of America, so this should help out on those who can't pay for their health.[/QUOTE]
Because it forces us to buy insurance from a bunch of greedy assholes at rates that rape us when we can't take another bill or get hit with a fine for no fucking reason other than having U.S. citizenship, meanwhile the rich assholes get to keep their plans and we get to fund the fucking 2 million dollar summer home for the fucking insurance executives
why do you hate poor people
i seriously haven't been to the doctors in at least 4 years
[QUOTE=Broseph_;30367861]Because it forces us to buy insurance from a bunch of greedy assholes at rates that rape us when we can't take another bill or get hit with a fine for no fucking reason other than having U.S. citizenship, meanwhile the rich assholes get to keep their plans and we get to fund the fucking 2 million dollar summer home for the fucking insurance executives[/QUOTE]
Except that there's no penalty for not paying the fine.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;30367999]Except that there's no penalty for not paying the fine.[/QUOTE]
Wait you are telling me that the IRS or who ever the fuck they put in charge of the fines won't fuck me in the ass if I refuse to pay them?
[QUOTE=Broseph_;30368582]Wait you are telling me that the IRS or who ever the fuck they put in charge of the fines won't fuck me in the ass if I refuse to pay them?[/QUOTE]
No. If you cannot afford it you will not face any penalty, but if you're financially able, you're legally required to pay.
[QUOTE=Broseph_;30368582]Wait you are telling me that the IRS or who ever the fuck they put in charge of the fines won't fuck me in the ass if I refuse to pay them?[/QUOTE]
Nah they prefer blowjobs
[QUOTE=yawmwen;30367200]hmm, i guess it all depends on where you are, the longest iv ever waited for emergency care in the united states was 30 minutes, but i assume that a place like l.a. or n.y. might be longer[/quote]
I've waited 9 hours in a US hospital once. I've also waited 50 minutes in a French hospital. So Again, it varies.
[quote]thats being a bad doctor, it is caused by incompetence or apathy, not greed or compassion[/quote]
Welcome to Private healthcare, that's the point.
[quote]i mean logically, you would think a greedy money grubbing doctor would try and work as hard as he could so that he could make even more money with his reputation and skill, right?[/quote]
He wouldn't need it, he has the respect from the pharmaceutical companies and HMO's. Corporate entities support doctors who bleed people dry for them.
[quote]greed is a great driving force and it shouldnt be hated, only controlled.[/quote]
Greed is evil, Gecko. There's nothing good about it. It can be a driving force, to the very ignorant, but it's also greed.
[quote]some of the best inventions and ideas comes from competition and greed[/quote]
Oh you mean like the Polio vaccine?
[quote]as long as it is kept in check and doesnt become a threat to the general public i see no problem with some healthy greed and ambition[/quote]
There's no fucking such thing as "Healthy greed"
[editline]10th June 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Broseph_;30367861]That's because in the UK they are subjects and not citizens, they have no infringable rights, all their rights come from acts of parliament and even then they have this disturbingly bliss attitude when it comes to even those petty rights in which they willingly wave them at a drop of a Police man's hat with no questions[/quote]
No, not at all. That's fucking retarded to say the UK doesn't have rights.
Meanwhile, The US constantly denies rights and it's perfectly okay with its public.
[QUOTE=amute;30373411]
He wouldn't need it, he has the respect from the pharmaceutical companies and HMO's. Corporate entities support doctors who bleed people dry for them.[/quote]
no actually it doesnt work that way at all. a doctor is like any other person who provide a service, if they are good at their job they make more money and get more customers. sponsorship does very little
[quote]Greed is evil, Gecko. There's nothing good about it. It can be a driving force, to the very ignorant, but it's also greed.[/quote]
and i say greed is an amazing force. it is a driving force to everyone, not just the ignorant
in fact almost all action is done out of greed of some sort
[quote]There's no fucking such thing as "Healthy greed"[/quote]
says you. most greed is in fact healthy and normal, and it motivates us to achieve better
[QUOTE=Broseph_;30367861]That's because in the UK they are subjects and not citizens, they have no infringable rights, all their rights come from acts of parliament and even then they have this disturbingly bliss attitude when it comes to even those petty rights in which they willingly wave them at a drop of a Police man's hat with no questions[/QUOTE]
uhh, what the fuck are you talking about?
[QUOTE=amute;30367024] When you profit off sick people, yeah.[/QUOTE]
I don't understand why these posters don't seem to realize that many of the best hospitals in the United States are non-profit hospitals and all their doctors are still paid handsomely --- much more than doctors in other countries.
Treating the sick does not need to be a for-profit industry.
[editline]10th June 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=yawmwen;30367085]i believe that all that matters is results, if a doctor treats someone out of compassion, and another out of greed they are mostly the same thing because the result is treatment for someone who needs it
if an action made out of malice gets the same results as an action made out of love then there is little difference in the end[/QUOTE]
What about when it becomes like the system in America, where health care becomes too costly because it is a for-profit industry and hundreds of thousands of people are unable to see doctors because they cannot afford to?
[QUOTE=Broseph_;30367861]That's because in the UK they are subjects and not citizens, they have no infringable rights, all their rights come from acts of parliament and even then they have this disturbingly bliss attitude when it comes to even those petty rights in which they willingly wave them at a drop of a Police man's hat with no questions
[editline]10th June 2011[/editline]
Because it forces us to buy insurance from a bunch of greedy assholes at rates that rape us when we can't take another bill or get hit with a fine for no fucking reason other than having U.S. citizenship, meanwhile the rich assholes get to keep their plans and we get to fund the fucking 2 million dollar summer home for the fucking insurance executives[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure what you want. You don't want government provided healthcare because that would make you a subject rather than a citizen, but you also don't want to buy insurance from a private insurer.
I'm confused.
America needs single-payer health care like Canada and England.
Obama's health care bill was an exact copy of John McCain's health care bill, which is basically a sell-out to private insurance companies that won't do anything about the spiraling costs of wellness.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;30373969]no actually it doesnt work that way at all. a doctor is like any other person who provide a service, if they are good at their job they make more money and get more customers. sponsorship does very little[/quote]
Except you don't really seem to fucking realise the healthcare idustry in the US has become a racket. Doctors folly to Pharmaceutical companies and
[quote]and i say greed is an amazing force. it is a driving force to everyone, not just the ignorant[/quote]
Yeah, and greed lets you trample over others and go so far as to destroy lives just for that greed - you seem to fucking forget that part, boyo. The US isn't in this economic mess out of lack of greed. Take 5 fucking seconds and look at the world around you, actually understand how it works, and not misconstrue Gordon Gekko.
[quote]in fact almost all action is done out of greed of some sort[/quote]
Not exactly. We don't love one another out of greed, we don't raise families out of greed, most police aren't police out of a greed, in actual countries where they don't profit off the sick - doctors don't do it for greed, low end jobs aren't done out of greed, scientists aren't scientists out of greed.
Pretty much most actions in life are not done out of a greed. Just because you're a greedy shit doesn't mean the rest of the world is greedy.
[quote]says you. most greed is in fact healthy and normal, and it motivates us to achieve better[/QUOTE]
It motivates us to acquire more. It's self-indulgence. Most, if not all greed doesn't motivate to achieve better, that is shit you only really see in movies and such. Greed isn't so healthy when it fucks over a LOT of people.
[QUOTE=analrapist;30374530]America needs single-payer health care like Canada and England.
Obama's health care bill was an exact copy of John McCain's health care bill, which is basically a sell-out to private insurance companies that won't do anything about the spiraling costs of wellness.[/QUOTE]
Vermont's just approved a state-wide single-payer system, so there's always that in the mean time.
[QUOTE=amute;30373411]I've waited 9 hours in a US hospital once. I've also waited 50 minutes in a French hospital. So Again, it varies.
Welcome to Private healthcare, that's the point.
He wouldn't need it, he has the respect from the pharmaceutical companies and HMO's. Corporate entities support doctors who bleed people dry for them.
Greed is evil, Gecko. There's nothing good about it. It can be a driving force, to the very ignorant, but it's also greed.
Oh you mean like the Polio vaccine?
There's no fucking such thing as "Healthy greed"
No, not at all. That's fucking retarded to say the UK doesn't have rights.
Meanwhile, The US constantly denies rights and it's perfectly okay with its public.[/QUOTE]
France isn't quite the example to compare against because the insurance policy there is mostly privatized. It more of a market based system and really isn't comparable to the Canadian system.
I don't really see much to your argument besides that anything done for greed is bad, and I've already addressed that in previous posts without any rebuttal to the points I made. I can go on with examples of how greed has made medicine better, I even kept to just the field of medicine because everyone is saying it is different. I can also of course give examples where it has made things worse, but most of these examples deal with fraud.
[QUOTE=analrapist;30374076]I don't understand why these posters don't seem to realize that many of the best hospitals in the United States are non-profit hospitals and all their doctors are still paid handsomely --- much more than doctors in other countries.
Treating the sick does not need to be a for-profit industry.
What about when it becomes like the system in America, where health care becomes too costly because it is a for-profit industry and hundreds of thousands of people are unable to see doctors because they cannot afford to?[/QUOTE]
Already discussed that point without a real rebuttal. Actually, to convince me I'll give you the simple task of proving that one for profit procedure would be negative, and that is allowing the sale of kidneys. I provided an argument to this, and there are some very well written pieces on that. Essentially, people would die get to live because of kidneys. The system fueled by greed has far better results than the system fueled by compassion and donation.
If you want to get into why medicine cost so much that is easy to get into. There have been large book outlying the reasons. Do any of these books outright complain "greed"? No, not at all, they get into regulation, laws, and many other factors that have made the cost go up out of necessity. If your claim had any merit, you'd find that only for profit costs would go up and non profit costs would stay the same, but both go up at the same rate because both groups are affected by the same system. You can't take an incredibly complex issue and sum the problem into one word.
[QUOTE=Miskav;30347645]I really, REALLY cannot see why americans have such a huge problem with helping their fellow man.
What is it that makes you (seems to be mostly conservatives) into complete fucking assholes?
Oh no, you have to pay a mandatory fee! THATS HOW THEY COVER THE COSTS YOU DIMWIT.
Christ, I hope people like Glaber never get in a position of power in the future, cause fuck progress with them around.[/QUOTE]
This bill will cover non-working individuals who SOME (not all) live off food stamps and make no effort to work. It is the hard workers money that is going to pay for the non-workers through taxes, which is complete bullshit. There is a way this can be done, it's just being done wrong.
[QUOTE=Pepin;30374649]Already discussed that point without a real rebuttal. Actually, to convince me I'll give you the simple task of proving that one for profit procedure would be negative, and that is allowing the sale of kidneys. I provided an argument to this, and there are some very well written pieces on that. Essentially, people would die get to live because of kidneys. The system fueled by greed has far better results than the system fueled by compassion and donation.
If you want to get into why medicine cost so much that is easy to get into. There have been large book outlying the reasons. Do any of these books outright complain "greed"? No, not at all, they get into regulation, laws, and many other factors that have made the cost go up out of necessity. If your claim had any merit, you'd find that only for profit costs would go up and non profit costs would stay the same, but both go up at the same rate because both groups are affected by the same system. You can't take an incredibly complex issue and sum the problem into one word.[/QUOTE]
This is nonsensical and has nothing to do with the difference between for-profit and non-profit hospitals.
It also shows a profoundly flawed understanding of why medicine prices are the same at for-profit and non-profit hospitals. The hospitals don't set the price of the medications.
Have you ever even been to a hospital? Do you know anyone who works at one?
It sounds like you don't understand the issue at all.
[editline]10th June 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Angry Pineapple;30374690]This bill will cover non-working individuals who SOME (not all) live off food stamps and make no effort to work. It is the hard workers money that is going to pay for the non-workers through taxes, which is complete bullshit. There is a way this can be done, it's just being done wrong.[/QUOTE]
The best way to solve that is with welfare reform, not withholding medical care.
If someone really wants to not work and be miserable and poor and live on the streets, I don't mind paying for their medical care. I just don't want to pay for someone to live a nice kushy lifestyle while not working.
[QUOTE=amute;30374564]Except you don't really seem to fucking realise the healthcare idustry in the US has become a racket. Doctors folly to Pharmaceutical companies and [/QUOTE]
it isnt a racket, there is some of what you mentioned but in reality it isnt near as bad as you say.
[quote]Yeah, and greed lets you trample over others and go so far as to destroy lives just for that greed - you seem to fucking forget that part, boyo. The US isn't in this economic mess out of lack of greed. Take 5 fucking seconds and look at the world around you, actually understand how it works, and not misconstrue Gordon Gekko.[/quote]which is why greed that comes at the expense of innocent people should be discouraged, this isnt impossible
[quote]Not exactly. We don't love one another out of greed,[/quote]
ya we do
[quote]we don't raise families out of greed,[/quote]ya we do
[quote]most police aren't police out of a greed,[/quote]ya they are
[quote]in actual countries where they don't profit off the sick - doctors don't do it for greed,[/quote]ya they do, i think you get the point
all action is motivated by some underlying form of greed. whether its emotional greed or monetary
[quote]Pretty much most actions in life are not done out of a greed. Just because you're a greedy shit doesn't mean the rest of the world is greedy. [/quote]actually it is, denying this is just denying the truth
you delude yourself by thinking there are selfless acts
[quote]It motivates us to acquire more. It's self-indulgence. Most, if not all greed doesn't motivate to achieve better, that is shit you only really see in movies and such. Greed isn't so healthy when it fucks over a LOT of people.[/quote]no actually if you dont have some healthy greed and ambition you will not do anything worthwhile
all doctors and all scientists have a healthy level of greed and ambition, otherwise they wouldnt have spent tens of thousands and up to 8 years training for it
[QUOTE=analrapist;30374772]
[editline]10th June 2011[/editline]
The best way to solve that is with welfare reform, not withholding medical care.
If someone really wants to not work and be miserable and poor and live on the streets, I don't mind paying for their medical care. I just don't want to pay for someone to live a nice kushy lifestyle while not working.[/QUOTE]
If they are willing to work and actively looking for work, it won't bother me paying for it either. Like you said, it's the ones who sit around and do nothing, yet expect everything to be paid for and taken care of by our tax dollars who should be denied coverage.
[QUOTE=Pepin;30374649]France isn't quite the example to compare against because the insurance policy there is mostly privatized. It more of a market based system and really isn't comparable to the Canadian system.[/quote]
France is not a market based system, they have a socialised healthcare system. I have no idea where you got that idea from.
"Approximately 77% of health expenditures are covered by government funded agencies"
Even if you're talking about what people choose to do, it's still only 23%.
They have a private insurance option, much like England, but again, it's a small margin.
[quote]I don't really see much to your argument besides that anything done for greed is bad, and I've already addressed that in previous posts without any rebuttal to the points I made. I can go on with examples of how greed has made medicine better, I even kept to just the field of medicine because everyone is saying it is different. I can also of course give examples where it has made things worse, but most of these examples deal with fraud.[/quote]
Like Jonas Stalk? Saying greed fuels the field of medicine means you're saying you understand the minds of people who are in it better than anyone. Which is pretty fucking amazing.
Now, there is a lot of corruption and greed in the medical field, however, the people who buy into it... usually don't get anywhere. They make money off making variations of drugs, but there hasn't really been breakthroughs simply because of greed.
[quote]The system fueled by greed has far better results than the system fueled by compassion and donation.[/quote]
There is absolutely ZERO evidence of this ever working, ever.
[quote]Do any of these books outright complain "greed"? No, not at all, they get into regulation, laws, and many other factors that have made the cost go up out of necessity.[/QUOTE]
Europe is known for its regulations. Yet, I can buy a bottle of medicine in England for 6£. While in America, it would go for about 125$. Now, this I know from experience - as my grandmother before she died had to take a lot of medication, and most of it was expensive as hell. I went back to England, saw the same thing in a Chemist - 6£.
Yeah, whole lot of Greed and lack of regulation fuelling that, right!?
[QUOTE=Angry Pineapple;30374690]This bill will cover non-working individuals who SOME (not all) live off food stamps and make no effort to work. It is the hard workers money that is going to pay for the non-workers through taxes, which is complete bullshit. There is a way this can be done, it's just being done wrong.[/QUOTE]
Uh, no. There's a system in place where you need to be actively looking for work to receive welfare, called WorkersFirst I believe. So before you try to jump to this conclusion of "the poor folks don't want to find a job so they just stay on the cushy welfare!!", try to actually substantiate it with something.
[QUOTE=Angry Pineapple;30374895]If they are willing to work and actively looking for work, it won't bother me paying for it either. Like you said, it's the ones who sit around and do nothing, yet expect everything to be paid for and taken care of by our tax dollars who should be denied coverage.[/QUOTE]
I guess I would rather deny them their subsidized housing and free government money than their health care.
If they really just refuse to work and want to really live in true poverty without government financial assistance, then I have no problem with covering their health care anyway because you would have to be crazy to want to live like that.
[QUOTE=Broseph_;30368582]Wait you are telling me that the IRS or who ever the fuck they put in charge of the fines won't fuck me in the ass if I refuse to pay them?[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.facepunch.com/threads/1096033-Judges-sharply-challenge-healthcare-law?p=30347119&viewfull=1#post30347119[/url]
[QUOTE=yawmwen;30374887]it isnt a racket, there is some of what you mentioned but in reality it isnt near as bad as you say. [/quote]
Can you actually argue a point instead of saying "NO NO IT'S NOT LIKE THAT"
Well why?
"I'M NOT TELLING YOU."
[quote]which is why greed that comes at the expense of innocent people should be discouraged, this isnt impossible[/quote]
err, simply going "NO NO, DON'T DO THAT, use more softer greed. Step over them and fuck people over NICELY. K?"
Yeah, ok lol
[quote]
ya we do
ya we do
ya they are
ya they do, i think you get the point[/quote]
Here's how much you know about life:
Fuck all
Who the flying fuck raises a family with greed in mind? You know, Yawmen, you've always had these nit-picking retarded posts, but this really takes the cake.
I SHALL ARGUE EVERY OUNCE OF EVERYTHING POSSIBLE - And lose miserably! Aw yeh
[quote]all action is motivated by some underlying form of greed. whether its emotional greed or monetary[/quote]
uh, no, it isn't lol. Most things that have emotional greed are mutual, therefore a transaction if you will - therefore, not fucking greed.
[quote]actually it is, denying this is just denying the truth
you delude yourself by thinking there are selfless acts[/quote]
Some dude is dying on the floor, what do you do? Well, a lot of people help that person. Sooooooo, where is there greed at all?
[quote]no actually if you dont have some healthy greed and ambition you will not do anything worthwhile[/quote]
First off, stop saying healthy greed, that simply doesn't exist
Second, greed isn't ambition, it's two different fucking things.
[quote]all doctors and all scientists have a healthy level of greed and ambition, otherwise they wouldnt have spent tens of thousands and up to 8 years training for it[/QUOTE]
Ambition
Is
not
greed
are you so fucking retarded that you can't get this?
And no, they go through that shit to help people.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;30374935]Uh, no. There's a system in place where you need to be actively looking for work to receive welfare, called WorkersFirst I believe. So before you try to jump to this conclusion of "the poor folks don't want to find a job so they just stay on the cushy welfare!!", try to actually substantiate it with something.[/QUOTE]
I was stating that the NEW bill was pushing for coverage of them, not the current plans in place now. The new bill was pushing for extended coverage to them.
EDIT:
[QUOTE=analrapist;30374985]I guess I would rather deny them their subsidized housing and free government money than their health care.
If they really just refuse to work and want to really live in true poverty without government financial assistance, then I have no problem with covering their health care anyway because you would have to be crazy to want to live like that.[/QUOTE]
The government could definitely change these things in a better way, but of course, the government doesn't always thing logically. Instead of moving/spreading out funds more evenly, lets just input a bill and spend HUGE amounts of money...
You know what? I'm actually understanding your posts as soon as I said nit-picking. You're doing EXACTLY that.
Since we somehow in someway do things that only MODERATELY gives us something, it's somehow "Healthy greed". So you're nitpicking.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;30374887]it isnt a racket, there is some of what you mentioned but in reality it isnt near as bad as you say. [/QUOTE]
It's actually just as bad if not worse.
My dad has worked in a hospital pharmacy for the last 30 years and you wouldn't believe the kinds of shit that drug companies give away to try to get pharmacists and doctors to promote their drugs.
Probably about 25%-50% of the medication that people are taking in the USA right now is unnecessary, and some of it has even been proven to do more harm than good but the FDA approves it anyway.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBe1onjcCjA[/media]
[b]EDIT:[/b] I know this video is really boring, but the point is that Statins are fucking POINTLESS and that they have almost zero positive effects. But guess what? Lipitor is a statin manufactured by Pfizer. By 2003 Lipitor had become the best-selling pharmaceutical in history, with Pfizer reporting annual sales of $12.4 billion in 2008.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statin[/url]
yawmen thinks everything is fine with the healthcare industry - nothing at all wrong. Nope.
[QUOTE=amute;30375001]
err, simply going "NO NO, DON'T DO THAT, use more softer greed. Step over them and fuck people over NICELY. K?"
Yeah, ok lol[/quote]
restrict people from hurting others, allow them to pursue their desire to accumulate wealth and fame and emotional satisfaction but as long as they arent destroying other people in the process
[quote]Here's how much you know about life:
Fuck all
Who the flying fuck raises a family with greed in mind? You know, Yawmen, you've always had these nit-picking retarded posts, but this really takes the cake.
I SHALL ARGUE EVERY OUNCE OF EVERYTHING POSSIBLE - And lose miserably! Aw yeh[/quote]
raising a family comes from a greedy desire for love, acceptance, and passing on genetics(at a more subconscious level)
[quote]uh, no, it isn't lol. Most things that have emotional greed are mutual, therefore a transaction if you will - therefore, not fucking greed.[/quote]
greed can be mutual, its any desire for something you dont need, it doesnt inherently mean someone has to be at a losing end
[quote]Some dude is dying on the floor, what do you do? Well, a lot of people help that person. Sooooooo, where is there greed at all?[/quote]
it makes you feel like a better person, it could also give you fame and recognition, these are greedy desires
[quote]First off, stop saying healthy greed, that simply doesn't exist
Second, greed isn't ambition, it's two different fucking things.
Ambition
Is
not
greed
are you so fucking retarded that you can't get this?[/quote]
thats why i said ambition and greed, i used both words because they have different meaning, and btw healthy greed is the greed that ends up in the long run contributing to society, it does exist
[quote]And no, they go through that shit to help people.[/QUOTE]
to increase their sense of self-worth, their sense of value, to earn recognition, to make large sums of money, and for the pleasure it brings the person to help another
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