Americans are only afraid of high taxes because they are accustomed to not getting anything in return.
The general consensus among Europeans is that they like the benefits their taxes get them.
And yes, I hate paying taxes in the US because most of it winds up in the war machine.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;30376479]Except that even with private healthcare there are wait times, and not everyone has an adequate amount of resources to treat illness as is, so it's best to change it for the better. Higher tax fear is not even any argument, if you look at America's history, as recently as the 70s we had a ~70% income tax, and ~90% before that.[/QUOTE]
I don't see how it is changing for the better if it will just make the wait longer and resources more scarce. This could be fixed by bringing production jobs to make these resources to America, which will help unemployment go down as well. (Again, the government doesn't think very logically at times) In a tough economy, taxes are enough as is, at least they could wait for the economy to turn to try this. (The bill wouldn't be enacted right away anyways)
[QUOTE=Angry Pineapple;30376540]I don't see how it is changing for the better if it will just make the wait longer and resources more scarce. This could be fixed by bringing production jobs to make these resources to America, which will help unemployment go down as well. (Again, the government doesn't think very logically at times) In a tough economy, taxes are enough as is, at least they could wait for the economy to turn to try this. (The bill wouldn't be enacted right away anyways)[/QUOTE]
If we had a proper socialized healthcare system, that wouldn't be an issue, because the 'resources' you're speaking of would be better distributed. How will it make wait time longer exactly, pray tell?
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;30376589]If we had a proper socialized healthcare system, that wouldn't be an issue, because the 'resources' you're speaking of would be better distributed. How will it make wait time longer exactly, pray tell?[/QUOTE]
More people going to get treatment/medication = More people to see = Longer wait. Fixable by opening more doctor's offices, encouraging more people to go to med school, and hiring more doctors.
So what? You want less people to get treatment so you can get in faster?
[QUOTE=amute;30376694]So what? You want less people to get treatment so you can get in faster?[/QUOTE]
No, I do not want doctor's offices clogging up with people who didn't pay their own insurance until this bill came into play.
[QUOTE=Angry Pineapple;30376776]No, I do not want doctor's offices clogging up with people who didn't pay their own insurance until this bill came into play.[/QUOTE]
Oh, you don't want poor people to get treatment so you can get in faster?
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;30376798]Oh, you don't want poor people to be healthy?[/QUOTE]
If they sit on their ass and don't work (or even make an effort to do so) then no I do not. Sorry, it's a bit cold, but they do not deserve it.
[QUOTE=Angry Pineapple;30376817]If they sit on their ass and don't work (or even make an effort to do so) then no I do not. Sorry, it's a bit cold, but they do not deserve it.[/QUOTE]
uhh, they do fucking deserve it. Want to know why? Because they're human you dick.
So you think people deserve to die or suffer if they don't work as hard as you?
Do you even have a job?
[editline]10th June 2011[/editline]
Most people without healthcare don't have it because they "Sit on their asses all day".
I have a job, but I sit on my ass all day.
I sit at a desk all day, and I wouldn't exactly call it hard work.
Everyday I drive through a road construction zone, I'm glad I'm not one of those unlucky bastards standing in 100 degree weather fixing roads.
They definitely work harder than I do.
[quote](also, you're again, arguing semantics.)[/quote]i am, because your definition of greed fits your argument, but my definition of greed fits my argument
really we are both wrong and right because we have different definitions
i use the term greed as if it was more closely related to ambition, where you use the term as if it was more closely related to gluttony and lust
simple misunderstanding
[QUOTE=amute;30376868]uhh, they do fucking deserve it. Want to know why? Because they're human you dick.
So you think people deserve to die or suffer if they don't work as hard as you?
Do you even have a job?
[editline]10th June 2011[/editline]
Most people without healthcare don't have it because they "Sit on their asses all day".[/QUOTE]
They deserve what they have now and nothing more. Additional money should not go to non-workers from workers. If they want to do nothing and have the same/relatively similar coverage as others, go to a socialist country. I have worked summer jobs yes, but have not needed my own "real" job as I am not an adult and do not have a family to support/support myself fully. I'd rather focus on school than working.
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;30376930]I have a job, but I sit on my ass all day.
I sit at a desk all day, and I wouldn't exactly call it hard work.
Everyday I drive through a road construction zone, I'm glad I'm not one of those unlucky bastards standing in 100 degree weather fixing roads.
They definitely work harder than I do.[/QUOTE]
Use your brain and don't take things literally when they obviously aren't. You can do hard work at a desk and not do shit on the roads, and it can be the other way around.
People who say your salary is a measure of how hard you work are bullshitting.
[QUOTE=Angry Pineapple;30376945]as I am not an adult[/QUOTE]
no kidding
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;30376971]People who say your salary is a measure of how hard you work are bullshitting.[/QUOTE]
the real measurement of how hard you are working is how easily you can get to sleep at night :v:
thats what my dad told me
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;30376971]People who say your salary is a measure of how hard you work are bullshitting.[/QUOTE]
Yes, look at the big CEOs who make millions and do not work very hard. I like this point
[QUOTE=thisispain;30377034]no kidding[/QUOTE]
I don't see you posting your ideas/contributing :frogbon:
Just because I am not an adult doesn't mean I don't have logical opinions on subjects such as these
[QUOTE=Angry Pineapple;30377153]Yes, look at the big CEOs who make millions and do not work very hard. I like this point
I don't see you posting your ideas/contributing :frogbon:
Just because I am not an adult doesn't mean I don't have logical opinions on subjects such as these[/QUOTE]
Except that it's not logical, given that your opinion essentially boils down to "people who don't make enough to afford decent insurance don't deserve it".
[QUOTE=Angry Pineapple;30377153]Yes, look at the big CEOs who make millions and do not work very hard. I like this point
[/QUOTE]
why does everyone assume ceo's dont work very hard?
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;30377180]Except that it's not logical, given that your opinion essentially boils down to "people who don't make enough to afford decent insurance don't deserve it".[/QUOTE]
As I have stated numerous times, they deserve what they have now. Your statement can be put into other situations, "people who don't make enough and live in shitty housing deserve a nice house". No, they get what they can afford.
[QUOTE=Angry Pineapple;30377225]As I have stated numerous times, they deserve what they have now. Your statement can be put into other situations, "people who don't make enough and live in shitty housing deserve a nice house". No, they get what they can afford.[/QUOTE]
So if they can't afford healthcare now, they don't deserve it?
[QUOTE=Angry Pineapple;30377225]As I have stated numerous times, they deserve what they have now. Your statement can be put into other situations, "people who don't make enough and live in shitty housing deserve a nice house". No, they get what they can afford.[/QUOTE]
yea, in reality they get what they can afford. this doesnt mean they deserve it though
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;30377255]So if they can't afford healthcare now, they don't deserve it?[/QUOTE]
Not the benefits of higher cost healthcare. It seems as if you want uniform healthcare and uniformity in other aspects of American life (part of socialist views). Again, it's like saying "those who can't afford a good pc deserve one" Well of course they don't deserve one, they don't have the money for it.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;30377283]yea, in reality they get what they can afford. this doesnt mean they deserve it though[/QUOTE]
Thank you for saying reality, as this is reality. In a perfect world, everyone will have what they deserve, but this isn't a perfect world. Hell, many people deserve more than they have but they don't get it. It is just how it works.
[QUOTE=Angry Pineapple;30376945]They deserve what they have now and nothing more.[/quote]
They deserve nothing?
[quote]Additional money should not go to non-workers from workers. If they want to do nothing and have the same/relatively similar coverage as others, go to a socialist country.[/quote]
Oh so you admit Socialism is better for people, okay, that's cool.
[quote]I have worked summer jobs yes, but have not needed my own "real" job as I am not an adult and do not have a family to support/support myself fully. I'd rather focus on school than working.[/quote]
Many adults don't have families to support, what's your point? You don't fucking work, yet you're saying you need a hardworking job to get healthcare.
[QUOTE=Angry Pineapple;30377311]Not the benefits of higher cost healthcare. It seems as if you want uniform healthcare and uniformity in other aspects of American life (part of socialist views). Again, it's like saying "those who can't afford a good pc deserve one" Well of course they don't deserve one, they don't have the money for it.[/QUOTE]
Healthcare is a human right, set down in Article 25.1 of the UN Declaration of Human Rights as part of an adequate standard of living. Those who do not have healthcare should be provided it by the government.
[QUOTE=amute;30377341]They deserve nothing?
Oh so you admit Socialism is better for people, okay, that's cool.
Many adults don't have families to support, what's your point? You don't fucking work, yet you're saying you need a hardworking job to get healthcare.[/QUOTE]
You are out of ideas so you are referring back to older posts, either keep up or stop. Like you said, there is a plan in place for people trying to work/working "called WorkersFirst I believe" so they do have something. For people who don't want to work for their stuff, sure socialism is good for them, go get free/cheap healthcare in another country. As for families to support, the point was an example. I get healthcare from my parents' plan, who DO work to get that for themselves and me.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;30377391]Healthcare is a human right, set down in Article 25.1 of the UN Declaration of Human Rights as part of an adequate standard of living. Those who do not have healthcare should be provided it by the government.[/QUOTE]
Speaking out against that is not what I am doing, I am against giving them MORE than they have now, unless they plan on working for it.
[QUOTE=Angry Pineapple;30377464]You are out of ideas so you are referring back to older posts, either keep up or stop. Like you said, there is a plan in place for people trying to work/working "called WorkersFirst I believe" so they do have something. For people who don't want to work for their stuff, sure socialism is good for them, go get free/cheap healthcare in another country. As for families to support, the point was an example. I get healthcare from my parents' plan, who DO work to get that for themselves and me.[/QUOTE]
Do you think Socialism is just a matter of giving everyone everything for free and never working for it? One of the key ideas of Socialism is this: [I]"From each according to his ability, to each according to his contribution". [/I]This means that you work as much as you are able and take as much as you earn, in this case healthcare. Do you see anything wrong with this idea on its own?
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;30377527]Do you think Socialism is just a matter of giving everyone everything for free and never working for it? One of the key ideas of Socialism is this: [I]"From each according to his ability, to each according to his contribution". [/I]This means that you work as much as you are able and take as much as you earn, in this case healthcare. Do you see anything wrong with this idea on its own?[/QUOTE]
On its own, no. I have seen it said before that socialism can work out well if run by the right people in the correct way. I don't see the usage of it in the bill as an effective way.
This bill isn't socialist.
[editline]10th June 2011[/editline]
It fixes major issues in the healthcare industry.
[QUOTE=amute;30377705]This bill isn't socialist.
[editline]10th June 2011[/editline]
It fixes major issues in the healthcare industry.[/QUOTE]
Universal healthcare isn't socialist in ANY way? Uniformity of healthcare isn't socialist in ANY way? Explain
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