UK MP Jo Cox dies after reports of shooting and stabbing in West Yorkshire
253 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Wiggles;50533852]I believe it means what percentage of households that have a firearm have a shotgun/rifle. But because he left out the preceding statistic about total households with firearms it is very misleading.[/QUOTE]
i actually meant to include that one but missed it when i was tabbing back and forth
doesn't really matter since the specific numbers don't come into this; almost 1 million people is a decent chunk of gun owners and you can bet there are more who would like to
to assert that nobody sane wants guns in any capacity is downright bullshit
[editline]16th June 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Pepsi-cola;50533874]A bit different when the UK doesn't actually have a gun problem.[/QUOTE]
so once again i ask is it ok to push an agenda on the backs of 50 victims but not ok to push the other side on the back of 1
[editline]16th June 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=BLOB Fish Dude;50533869]Why are you so hell bent on this when you don't even live in the UK? It's not your problem. Britain doesn't like guns, leave it at that for fucks sake.[/QUOTE]
this is exactly the hypocrisy i'm on about
those brits are overjoyed to get any opportunity to jump in a thread and blab about gun control when americans dont care and dont want it because we like our guns
tables turn and suddenly its not the right time and they start strawmanning really hard and conducting themselves like chimpanzees
i dont really give a fuck what britain does with its guns, its a shame imo because they can be enjoyed in a safe and responsible manner but thats on them
personally im in favor of any control measure that successfully impacts crime without tying me up in even more red tape just for having a particularly noisy hobby but in practice i do not trust the government anymore when it comes to firearms legislation
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50533879]i actually meant to include that one but missed it when i was tabbing back and forth
doesn't really matter since the specific numbers don't come into this; almost 1 million people is a decent chunk of gun owners and you can bet there are more who would like to
to assert that nobody sane wants guns in any capacity is downright bullshit
[editline]16th June 2016[/editline]
so once again i ask is it ok to push an agenda on the backs of 50 victims but not ok to push the other side on the back of 1
[editline]16th June 2016[/editline]
this is exactly the hypocrisy i'm on about
those brits are overjoyed to get any opportunity to jump in a thread and blab about gun control when americans dont care and dont want it because we like our guns
tables turn and suddenly its not the right time and they start strawmanning really hard and conducting themselves like chimpanzees
i dont really give a fuck what britain does with its guns, its a shame imo because they can be enjoyed in a safe and responsible manner but thats on them[/QUOTE]calm down
[QUOTE=benzi2k7;50533916]calm down[/QUOTE]
lol what
why are you idiots debating gun control
the UK already has strict gun control laws that undeniably work, there is literally nothing to discuss
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50533879]
so once again i ask is it ok to push an agenda on the backs of 50 victims but not ok to push the other side on the back of 1
[/QUOTE]
Yes.
One gun death in the whole of the UK vs hundreds in the US. a big difference IMO.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50533925]lol what[/QUOTE]calm down
[QUOTE=Pepsi-cola;50533933]Yes.
One gun death in the whole of the UK vs hundreds in the US. a big difference IMO.[/QUOTE]
lmao boy lets talk about your knife crime then
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50533936]lmao boy lets talk about your knife crime then[/QUOTE]
seriously, what are you trying to accomplish, why are you trying to derail this thread from the original topic?
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50533879]i actually meant to include that one but missed it when i was tabbing back and forth
doesn't really matter since the specific numbers don't come into this; almost 1 million people is a decent chunk of gun owners and you can bet there are more who would like to
to assert that nobody sane wants guns in any capacity is downright bullshit[/QUOTE]
firstly you lie and misconstrue data to back up your argument. when called out on this you say "it doesn't matter". you presented the information in such a way that you made people reading it think that two thirds of british households have a shotgun in them
next you say "almost a million" when the actual figure you quoted was 842,665. this is extremely misleading because it implies an extra 150,000 people that came out of nowhere
finally, you assert that a massive number of people want guns when 842,665 is just 1.3% of the total population of britain
do you even read your own sources?
for the love of god stop fucking shitposting
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50533936]lmao boy lets talk about your knife crime then[/QUOTE]
No one cares.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50533936]lmao boy lets talk about your knife crime then[/QUOTE]
well yeah thats somewhat of an issue, but guns are not, what are you achieving by switching this other than backpedalling
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50533936]lmao boy lets talk about your knife crime then[/QUOTE]
Or lets just talk about how disgusting it is, that a woman who had campaigned for most of her life for equality for all- who was an activist for Oxfam, who worked tirelessly to promote the idea of having more women in politics, especially those who wished to become a member of parliament, was brutally murdered in cold blood.
How's that for a talking point?
[QUOTE=rampageturke 2;50533954]well yeah thats somewhat of an issue, but guns are not, what are you achieving by switching this other than backpedalling[/QUOTE]
im not even debating guns in here literally all i posted in this thread to do was call out the dissonance between brit posters saying its unacceptable to use deaths to push a political agenda while doing it in threads about america
strawmanning dweebs immediately pinned me with goofy shit like "your points don't even make any sense. she was shot unexpectedly and out of the blue. what was she meant to do, reach out for her gun and shoot him when she was bleeding on the ground? real smart americans, real smart"
i dont care what britain does with its guns but dont get mouthy in threads about american incidents and then try to shut down the same discussion in threads about your own
Okay so does anyone have anything new on the shooting of a minister of parliament or are we going to continue running around in circles to achieve nothing
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;50533979]Okay so does anyone have anything new on the shooting of a minister of parliament or are we going to continue running around in circles to achieve nothing[/QUOTE]
Her husband released a statement: "Today is the beginning of a new chapter in our lives. More difficult, more painful, less joyful, less full of love. I and Jo’s friends and family are going to work every moment of our lives to love and nurture our kids and to fight against the hate that killed Jo.
Jo believed in a better world and she fought for it every day of her life with an energy, and a zest for life that would exhaust most people.
She would have wanted two things above all else to happen now, one that our precious children are bathed in love and two, that we all unite to fight against the hatred that killed her. Hate doesn’t have a creed, race or religion, it is poisonous.
Jo would have no regrets about her life, she lived every day of it to the full."
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50533972]im not even debating guns in here literally all i posted in this thread to do was call out the dissonance between brit posters saying its unacceptable to use deaths to push a political agenda while doing it in threads about america
strawmanning dweebs immediately pinned me with goofy shit like "your points don't even make any sense. she was shot unexpectedly and out of the blue. what was she meant to do, reach out for her gun and shoot him when she was bleeding on the ground? real smart americans, real smart"
i dont care what britain does with its guns but dont get mouthy in threads about american incidents and then try to shut down the same discussion in threads about your own[/QUOTE]
Dude just stop.
debate this elsewhere.
we get your angry but doing what you're doing isn't productive. Make a discussion or a poll in the general section.
please go away from this thread
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50533947]firstly you lie and misconstrue data to back up your argument. when called out on this you say "it doesn't matter". you presented the information in such a way that you made people reading it think that two thirds of british households have a shotgun in them
next you say "almost a million" when the actual figure you quoted was 842,665. this is extremely misleading because it implies an extra 150,000 people that came out of nowhere
finally, you assert that a massive number of people want guns when 842,665 is just 1.3% of the total population of britain
do you even read your own sources?
for the love of god stop fucking shitposting[/QUOTE]
842,665 is a lot of people
you cannot disregard the opinions of 842,665 people just because they don't fit the narrative you created, that's silly
what i'm expecting here is for the lot of you to acknowledge that it's kind of unfair to go "dont use deaths to push a political agenda" when you do it any time you get the opportunity to
the only reason you are saying that now is because you really are at a loss for words and don't want to have a discussion
that's pretty much how we feel when you do it
i don't think this is an appropriate time to have a gun debate and i don't think the orlando shooting was either for exactly the reason you find it so shocking. i didn't come in here for a gun debate and don't really have my debate cap on, accidentally left out one stat from a list of stats that i grabbed from randomly because i was just trying to make a side point about saying that nobody wants guns when it's patently false.
i even stated flatly that
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50533766]i am pro gun and pro self defense - im not naive enough to believe having a firearm would protect you from a random shooting that you couldnt have seen coming[/QUOTE]
which means, as stated, i am in agreement with you on gun control within the context of this issue. my concern is simply for the cognitive dissonance and hypocritical posts in here.
that's all.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;50534005]Dude just stop.
debate this elsewhere.
we get your angry but doing what you're doing isn't productive. Make a discussion or a poll in the general section.
please go away from this thread[/QUOTE]
im not angry, just pretty disappointed. im done, i didnt intend to get the thread so far off track
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50534065]stupid crap[/QUOTE]
Complete threadshitter who derailed the entire thread with great posts like 'lmao boy lets talk about your knife crime then'. Thank you for improving facepunch
There's literally no reason to debate gun control here and the hypocrisy you speak of is non existent. The US has a gun violence/control problem and the UK doesn't, and thus a discussion over gun control is relevant in a US mass shooting while it isn't in Britain. Why is that so hard to understand?
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;50534095]Complete threadshitter who derailed the entire thread with great posts like 'lmao boy lets talk about your knife crime then'. Thank you for improving facepunch[/QUOTE]
I'm as pro-gun as they come and I agree.
What the fuck happened to this thread.
Do we know what the motivation was? It says they got the guy
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;50534112]
Do we know what the motivation was? It says they got the guy[/QUOTE]
Don't think so, last I heard they were searching his flat.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50534065]842,665 is a lot of people
you cannot disregard the opinions of 842,665 people just because they don't fit the narrative you created, that's silly
what i'm expecting here is for the lot of you to acknowledge that it's kind of unfair to go "dont use deaths to push a political agenda" when you do it any time you get the opportunity to
the only reason you are saying that now is because you really are at a loss for words and don't want to have a discussion
that's pretty much how we feel when you do it
i don't think this is an appropriate time to have a gun debate and i don't think the orlando shooting was either for exactly the reason you find it so shocking. i didn't come in here for a gun debate and don't really have my debate cap on, accidentally left out one stat from a list of stats that i grabbed from randomly because i was just trying to make a side point about saying that nobody wants guns when it's patently false.
that's all.
im not angry, just pretty disappointed. im done, i didnt intend to get the thread so far off track[/QUOTE]
You ignored everyone else's facts and statistics which I assume is because you honestly aren't here to debate gun control, which is fine. The reason that people want to shut down the american issue of gun control in this thread is because this is a thread about the British political situation, Britain has no gun problem so why would we devolve this thread into another US debate.
There is no issue related to gun control to discuss here, there IS in a discussion regarding the Orlando tragedy because gun control is a pretty reasonable thing to factor into the leading up of that event.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;50534112]I'm as pro-gun as they come and I agree.
What the fuck happened to this thread.
Do we know what the motivation was? It says they got the guy[/QUOTE]
Apparently shouted Britain first while doing it, incase anyone here doesn't know that's a far right group in Britain who go round London in an armoured car handing out leaflets with crusader iconography on it. When they say Britain first they mean white Christians first. Basically bottom feeding race war enthusiast losers.
Dudes, let stop the arguing about guns from here and onward.
[QUOTE=jesse1412;50534135]You ignored everyone else's facts and statistics which I assume is because you honestly aren't here to debate gun control, which is fine. The reason that people want to shut down the american issue of gun control in this thread is because this is a thread about the British political situation, Britain has no gun problem so why would we devolve this thread into another US debate.
There is no issue related to gun control to discuss here, there IS in a discussion regarding the Orlando tragedy because gun control is a pretty reasonable thing to factor into the leading up of that event.[/QUOTE]
i was just trying to make a minor point about the dissonance w/ "dont use a persons death to further a political agenda" which i think is wholly fair to call attention to, it got derailed when flashmarsh immediately started pinning me with shit ive never ever said and have called people out for saying in the past and i shot back
like i said its no more the time to discuss the matter than the orlando thread was before the bodies were even cold. thats what i hate about this debate.
last post in here, just wanted to say that.
e; sorry sweb you posted while i was typing this
[QUOTE=Jackald;50534180]I'm glad both the Leave and Remain campaign have suspended their campaigning in a show of respect.[/QUOTE]
Wait, seriously?
That's actually kinda great to hear.
[QUOTE=Jackald;50534205]They don't want Jo's death to be politicised.[/QUOTE]
Her death is already being politicized, People are blaming Farage and Brexit.
[QUOTE=Jackald;50534180]I'm glad both the Leave and Remain campaign have suspended their campaigning in a show of respect.[/QUOTE]
They both suspended before she died, the attack itself was enough. Really good stuff from both sides.
[QUOTE=Jackald;50534205]Yeah, the IMF was also due to release a report on the economic impact of Brexit, but they've delayed it for 24 hours. They don't want Jo's death to be politicised.[/QUOTE]
Wish politicians were willing to do that kinda shit here rather than tote around corpses as a talking point
For the record, the last time an MP was murdered was in 1990 by the IRA.
As for motive, I really doubt the idea some people are suggesting that this wasn't planned and that it was due to a argument she intervened in. Not many people walk around with a handmade gun and knife in their pockets, so I'm pretty certain it's first degree murder.
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