Marc Laidlaw (Writer of Half Life) Leaves Valve - Polidicks

[QUOTE=matt000024;49495294]been hearing this exact same argument for years now.[/QUOTE] What argument? The Source 2 argument? The thing we only learned about like a year ago? Or the "long dev cycle" argument? Is that somehow false? How long did HL2 take? or TF2? Hell, CS:GO came out 8 years after CS:S. [editline]9th January 2016[/editline] How about the success of Portal? Keep in mind, the plot thread they're following for HL3 is going to be the Borealis, which contains Aperture Science tech. The whole plot is based around that. Now factor in how ungodly huge Portal got, im sure that had atleast some impact on the plans for the game.

i love that people are being hostile for the sake of being hostile, people shouldn't just be demanding valve do something. Companies have long dev cycles, especially with the case of Valve having lots on their plate currently, Vive, Steam Controller/OS/Big Picture/Store, CSGO/Dota2 updates/tourneys, how dare you get so mad at a company for not doing something you want? For all we know they finished HL3 on Source 1 but they're going to have to rewrite most of it for Source 2, or maybe everything is fleshed out, who cares, don't hype yourself up without official confirmation. Its your own fault if you feel let down for something you perked yourself up over when that something doesn't truly exist yet.

[QUOTE=ColossalSoft;49494628]I was just correcting his misconception chill the frick out[/QUOTE] I didn't mean for it to sound like that towards you - his implication was that Alien Swarm wasn't a new IP as if it mattered. It was only "safe sequels".

[QUOTE=matt000024;49495205]Because they took one of the most popular PC franchises of all time, left it on a cliffhanger, and don't even have the balls to tell us it is cancelled.[/QUOTE] Long development cycle = cancelled? Like seriously if you're 100% sure the game is cancelled just because you haven't heard anything about it and you're aware of Valve's development process you're kind of crazy. They're probably just waiting for the right time to pick it up again, why would they go and tell everyone it's cancelled when they can choose to continue it whenever they want? Ridiculous.

[QUOTE=adamsz;49492779]Like Ross Scott said. "Optimists are retards." Fans have been on a long road to accepting that Valve is a different company that doesn't give a shit. Maybe with this last gasp, people will realize just how incompetent the "savior of PC Games" really is. I knew that my practice of not buying anything on Steam until Half Life 3 was announced would save me money, I just didn't realize it would happen so fast. I only spent money on Steam once actually, when I bought Black Mesa a while ago. Now I can relax and watch Valve succumb under its own weight. Now I wonder what start up company will take its place. Oh I forgot one thing. "And if ya see Gabe Newell, tell em I said, F-CK YOU!" [img]http://www.tombstonebuilder.com/generate.php?top1=Valve+Software&top2=1998-2016&top3=%22I+can%27t+Believe&top4=I+ate+the+whole+thing%22&sp=[/img][/QUOTE] People have said the same thing about EA and Ubisoft for years, and they haven't gone anywhere. It's entirely possible for Valve to drop dead, but with the massive fortunes they've acquired from Steam they won't be going anywhere for quite a few years even if their fans go extinct.

[QUOTE=fear me;49494351]Oh, whatever. There's other games and companies I care about now. Valve can suck a fat one.[/QUOTE] Damn that sums up my attitude better than my own elaborate post. I hate the way I write poetically when I have a strong opinion. If Half Life 3 ever does finish development, I won't even have the time to play a single player game at college. I'm more pissed off at people who continue to defend Valve's practices as just or wise in defiance of all the evidence to the contrary. It's about as irritating as trying to reason with Trump supporters. The train they're on is about to crash and they instead tell the driver to go faster. This has nothing to with optimism or cynicism. I only opened with that reference as an opening joke. Same with the Barney quote at the end. [editline]9th January 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=EpicRandomnes;49496851]People have said the same thing about EA and Ubisoft for years, and they haven't gone anywhere. It's entirely possible for Valve to drop dead, but with the massive fortunes they've acquired from Steam they won't be going anywhere for quite a few years even if their fans go extinct.[/QUOTE] That is exactly why I don't look at this situation with an optimistic outlook. Because no matter how obvious a deception is, there are always more stupid people than there are people who understand the ways we are being manipulated.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;49490421]Im going to say something that quite a few of you are probably going to yell at me for. Ready? No really, are you ready? Im actually, legitimately glad they dont release information about their in development games. Want to know why? Go do some research into TF2 and Half-Life 2's development cycles. Would you rather wait until the game is announced a few months before release even if it takes 9 years, or want to experience a company announcing a game, going "wait no hold up, we're scrapping this build, this is it" around 6 to 7 times, before finally finalizing it after 9 years, constantly confusing the consumer and confusing them as to what the project would even be, and then releasing it? No? Exactly. They shouldnt divulge information about the game if the information could literally all be thrown into the garbage and not be relevant to the final product at any moment.[/QUOTE] Are you kidding me? I would much prefer that! Can you imagine how many less fans would be angry if they knew exactly how far along in development it was? You wouldn't have this swarming mass of fans who are angry at them for abandoning the franchise, if they just said "We're working hard on it, be patient guys."

[QUOTE=adamsz;49496943]Damn that sums up my attitude better than my own elaborate post. I hate the way I write poetically when I have a strong opinion. If Half Life 3 ever does finish development, I won't even have the time to play a single player game at college. I'm more pissed off at people who continue to defend Valve's practices as just or wise in defiance of all the evidence to the contrary. It's about as irritating as trying to reason with Trump supporters. The train they're on is about to crash and they instead tell the driver to go faster. This has nothing to with optimism or cynicism. I only opened with that reference as an opening joke. Same with the Barney quote at the end.[/QUOTE] You're mad that other people have different opinions? This is very specifically what I'm talking about. I can respect other people's disappointment when it comes to certain things. I can't shoot those down. I can respect a certain amount of anger for certain aspects of Valve when it comes to their recent updates that fucked up CS:GO - I'll give merit to their complaints. Those are things I'm cool with discussing about and it's not grueling either. In fact, in spite of not playing CS:GO, I found it enjoyable to listen to a comp player rant on about how he felt seriously wronged by Valve and how they're really hurting the competitive community. I'm not ashamed to say that my favorite game company not only has faults but also a ton of them. Where it becomes too stupid for me to accept is when people say something that sounds too close to "Valve is all around a bad company." Really, Valve is [I]all around[/I] a bad company? There aren't any good things Valve has done? And so I look further, and they say shit that's way too subjective to support their objective claim that Valve is doing nothing or Valve has lost touch with gaming. The same people that say stuff like, "Valve hasn't released an honest game in years" are the same people that don't consider "Left 4 Dead 2" or "Portal 2" to be games, apparently. The same people that think that Valve is simply focused on their cash cows of a video game are insinuiating that the people that play TF2, CS:GO, and DOTA2 aren't real gamers and aren't playing real games, and that their tastes in video games trumps theirs, and that Valve should focus on them. What it really boils down to are [B]personal problems[/B] and the reason why I keep emphasizing that they're personal problems is specifically because it's horrendous to argue that you should be put before others. Valve is in a position where they have created sects in the gaming market: a sect that likes TF2, a sect that likes CS:GO, and a sect that likes DOTA2. Those sects are pretty fucking huge and making a ton of money. There's a lot of people that absolutely love those games. Then there's Left 4 Dead 2 and Portal 2 which were also crowd pleasers. Just because [B]you[/B] didn't find those games to be particularly interesting doesn't mean shit because statistically you are an anomaly, so stop acting like your opinion is more meaningful than it actually is. It's not. You're not. That's why I don't argue with people like you - you already have the pre-destined conclusion that Valve isn't shit and anything that I could possibly to say to try and convince you otherwise will be rendered moot because you think you're more important than the rest of the gaming community and you'll misread my intentions entirely, saying that I'm "just a Valve fanboy". People who have invested all of their mind to believing that Valve sucks won't change their mind that Valve sucks. There's a specific laziness and inertia that pairs together to make sure it won't change. It's why you're saying: [quote]I'm more pissed off at people who continue to defend Valve's practices as just or wise in defiance of all the evidence to the contrary.[/quote] You don't want to hear the dissonance - anyone that could see any good with Valve is basically a Trump supporter. Valve's alright. They're not the best but they're definitely not the worst. I can totally side with people talking about their failings, just not that they're a complete failure, because to say they're a complete failure is a special kind of blindness for people who want to continuously play victim for being the fan of something, as if that was an achievement. [editline]9th January 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;49497049]Are you kidding me? I would much prefer that! Can you imagine how many less fans would be angry if they knew exactly how far along in development it was? You wouldn't have this swarming mass of fans who are angry at them for abandoning the franchise, if they just said "We're working hard on it, be patient guys."[/QUOTE] You wouldn't be happy with how far they are in development. It would be an endless cycle of wanting more. If you tracked the progress of Half-Life 2 you would be depressed, just as the fans were when they saw the leak. Fanboys are not necessarily the most forgiving nor understanding of development, let alone Valve-style development.

[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;49497049]Are you kidding me? I would much prefer that! Can you imagine how many less fans would be angry if they knew exactly how far along in development it was? You wouldn't have this swarming mass of fans who are angry at them for abandoning the franchise, if they just said "We're working hard on it, be patient guys."[/QUOTE] No. You wouldnt.

[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;49497049]Are you kidding me? I would much prefer that! Can you imagine how many less fans would be angry if they knew exactly how far along in development it was? You wouldn't have this swarming mass of fans who are angry at them for abandoning the franchise, if they just said "We're working hard on it, be patient guys."[/QUOTE] "We just rebooted the game for the fifth time. It was necessary for a multitude of reasons, most grave of which was bad approach to character animations." Yep. Everyone would shower Valve with praise.

[QUOTE=Simplemac3;49483519]i remember when a guy in the old valve games forum we had on here like 5 years ago I think said "episode 3 is never happening, they have no interest and no reason to do it anymore compared to their current projects" and I was aghast, I was just like Valve isn't like that, they're always so passionate about their projects they wouldn't leave people hanging etc etc but i guess shipping a quality game is a lot less profitable than pushing cosmetics on whales and passive idiots who will never stop buying or consider the effect of their purchases on the overall market for a single second[/QUOTE] how about you take your dick and shove it into your mouth, cosmetics are nice and change of scenery god forbid they want to sustain a market that brings income. HL3 would be nice and for all we know he could of completely finished writing the series and just got up and left so he can get away from all the bullshit that comes his way the guy is fucking 56 years old its getting closer to a retirement age anyways. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Rude. What is wrong with you lol" - postal))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=XenArtifact;49497796]how about you take your dick and shove it into your mouth[/QUOTE] I'm almost laughing to the point of tears just out of an accumulation of all of the posts in various threads I've read, but this takes the cake for being an unexpected start to a post. Let's not make a conversation about Half-Life 3 get to this, please. I don't mean to come off to aggressive, by the way, if that's what my previous posts sounded like. I just think there's a certain unfairness that isn't being seen.

[QUOTE=Map in a box;49495818]i love that people are being hostile for the sake of being hostile, people shouldn't just be demanding valve do something. Companies have long dev cycles, especially with the case of Valve having lots on their plate currently, Vive, Steam Controller/OS/Big Picture/Store, CSGO/Dota2 updates/tourneys, how dare you get so mad at a company for not doing something you want? For all we know they finished HL3 on Source 1 but they're going to have to rewrite most of it for Source 2, or maybe everything is fleshed out, who cares, don't hype yourself up without official confirmation. Its your own fault if you feel let down for something you perked yourself up over when that something doesn't truly exist yet.[/QUOTE] the thing is if they where more transparent about this whole thing alot of this hostile talk would go away

[QUOTE=theevilldeadII;49498491]the thing is if they where more transparent about this whole thing alot of this hostile talk would go away[/QUOTE] I can agree with being a little more transparent in certain areas, but specifically in areas in which no hype could be built up or extra confusion can commence from speaking up. Support? Let's hear about that. Initiatives for the Steam client? Cool! Half-Life 3? Absolutely not, unless it's solid news. Valve's strictness to secrecy isn't absolutely necessary in all areas.

Rather than try to answer every possible question you asked at once, I will instead take the liberty of dissecting the misconceptions you assume of me, piece by piece. [QUOTE=wauterboi;49497114]"Where it becomes too stupid for me to accept is when people say something that sounds too close to "Valve is all around a bad company." There aren't any good things Valve has done?"[/quote] Make no mistake, Valve has done a great deal to improve the video game industry in the past, but most of Valve's industry practices since 2011 or so, have been spiteful to say the least. From my point of view, Valve is a different company than the one that created these games almost half a decade ago. Prior to that change of attitude, 2004-2010 Valve certainly was and still is an all around good developer. The post-2011 Valve has for the most part has become an all around bad developer. [QUOTE=wauterboi;49497114]The same people that say stuff like, "Valve hasn't released an honest game in years" are the same people that don't consider "Left 4 Dead 2" or "Portal 2" to be games, apparently.[/quote] Although one could make the argument that people were fine playing Left 4 Dead until Left 4 Dead 2 was announced and that therefore, nobody asked for a completely new game, I think this would be a great opportunity to showcase the most recent additions to Valve's list of games that they made. [img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8e/ValveTimeline.png[/img] Notice the lack of games made over the past 5-6 years? Count the number of titles that weren't cashgrabs. There actually [i]hasn't[/i] been a quality game that Valve made since Portal 2 in 2011. Left 4 Dead 2 was released before that in 2009. The people born in 2009 are about 7 years old now. These kids are starting to play video games themselves. Things aren't as out there as you make them out to be. [QUOTE=wauterboi;49497114]The same people that think that Valve is simply focused on their cash cows of a video game are insinuiating that the people that play TF2, CS:GO, and DOTA2 aren't real gamers and aren't playing real games, and that their tastes in video games trumps theirs, and that Valve should focus on them.[/quote] I think you are exaggerating and twisting my words. I'm concerned that we as gamers are not receiving the kind of openness, respect, and quality products that we deserve and have come to expect from Valve. From talking about this concern with people on TF2 or CSS, whenever the topic is brought up, this is a shared feeling among members of the community. The practices that Valve has introduced to the gaming industry, have been detrimental to the relations between businesses and consumers. Cash grabbing micro transactions have made other game developers see dollar signs in their eyes. The lack of people working on projects together, the lack of enthusiasm and work for the products they have announced like Source 2 is troubling. The high school "clique-like mentality" reported by workers at Valve and the company's poor organization skills haven't helped with PR either. The monopoly Valve has on buying computer games and the piss poor practices regarding customer service, game support, and refunds, are the most worrying of all. I think we should be asking ourselves serious questions about Valve's place in the market. Are we getting the best product, with the highest support, and of the highest quality? If they continue to make these kind of decisions shouldn't alternative methods be considered? Regardless of how people spin these stories, Valve needs to show that they want to improve relations. And that means being more transparent with everybody. Both inside and outside the corporation. [b]Something[/b] has to be done, and [i]soon[/i].

[QUOTE=Karmah;49494389]He voiced a character in 1 game. He had no other lines for episode 1 or 2. With how popular the games were, they could have found someone who sounded the closest to him and then hired them. Further, his body was destroyed in the citadel, so there is no knowing whether his character, whether in an advisor or another host body, would even have the same voice. His character is the one that I'm least interested in - what the fuck happened to Calhoune? He took a train out in the end of episode 1 and never appeared again in episode 2.[/QUOTE] Barney actually does appear in EP2, hes at that winter base.

[QUOTE=fear me;49495227]Barney was really the chillest dude in the series, I was really sad when he vanished[/QUOTE] i hope barney's okay he's the best most handomest man ever <3

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;49499905]Barney actually does appear in EP2, hes at that winter base.[/QUOTE] Has that been confirmed? [editline]10th January 2016[/editline] It's been confirmed that it is Barney, but it's an accident, so not canon if you will. [url]http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2503050%7CMarc[/url] "Barney's appearance in Episode Two Quote: Originally Posted by Marc Laidlaw I'm not sure, but when this was first pointed out, I think I concluded that a level designer had randomly triggered one of Barney's congratulatory lines among citizen lines in the garage shop area after you conclude the final strider battle. If that's the one you're talking about, then it was...an accident. Personally, once I heard about it, I pictured him hiding inside one of those crates in the area."

[QUOTE=adamsz;49499847] [b]Something[/b] has to be done, and [i]soon[/i].[/QUOTE] yes Vive.

[QUOTE=Fort83;49500225]What are you talking about?[/QUOTE] There's a soundfile of barney that's played at White Forest in EP2. It's technically a slipup, but some people caught it and looked too deep.

[QUOTE=adamsz;49499847]Rather than try to answer every possible question you asked at once, I will instead take the liberty of dissecting the misconceptions you assume of me, piece by piece. Make no mistake, Valve has done a great deal to improve the video game industry in the past, but most of Valve's industry practices since 2011 or so, have been spiteful to say the least. From my point of view, Valve is a different company than the one that created these games almost half a decade ago. Prior to that change of attitude, 2004-2010 Valve certainly was and still is an all around good developer. The post-2011 Valve has for the most part has become an all around bad developer.[/QUOTE] So fuck growing Steam as a platform, fuck everything related to Greenlight thats actually been good, or the Workshop, or them working on a VR headset, or them making an innovative controller, fuck allowing different types of games and developers to thrive on steam. Fuck that noise, wheres Half-Life? Do you realize how much you sound like an entitled child right now? They're not doing exactly what i want them to do so its bad! [QUOTE=adamsz;49499847]Although one could make the argument that people were fine playing Left 4 Dead until Left 4 Dead 2 was announced and that therefore, nobody asked for a completely new game, I think this would be a great opportunity to showcase the most recent additions to Valve's list of games that they made. [img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8e/ValveTimeline.png[/img] Notice the lack of games made over the past 5-6 years?[/QUOTE] No. You're looking for the word "Decline" not "lack". And it started in 2008. And whats your point? They're still releasing games. [QUOTE=adamsz;49499847]Count the number of titles that weren't cashgrabs.[/QUOTE] Somehow this line of text is supposed to entirely invalidate the existence of CS:GO and DOTA 2? Games made and targeted specifically for a competitive audience? We get it, you want Half-Life. But this shit is too much. [QUOTE=adamsz;49499847] There actually [i]hasn't[/i] been a quality game that Valve made since Portal 2 in 2011. Left 4 Dead 2 was released before that in 2009. [/QUOTE] lol are you serious. Trying to justify your blatantly false argument with "but i mean QUALITY, obviously post 2011 isnt QUALITY" Yeah ok. Try again, buddy. [QUOTE=adamsz;49499847] [b]Something[/b] has to be done, and [i]soon[/i].[/QUOTE] They're working on two games, an operating system, finished up an innovative controller, and a VR headset. They're not exactly taking a vacation, pal.

[QUOTE=Drury;49497461]"We just rebooted the game for the fifth time. It was necessary for a multitude of reasons, most grave of which was bad approach to character animations." Yep. Everyone would shower Valve with praise.[/QUOTE] At least they would still know Valve is working on it. People would be upset of course, but some people are calling Valve "the WORST game developer right now." They wouldn't have that problem if they were open and honest with people. Here's an example of something like that. GRRM gets a LOT of shit for not releasing his books in the Game of Thrones/ASOIAF series quick enough. Last week, he made a long post chronicling how much longer it would take, and that it wouldn't be out before april. After the initial wave of resentment, people were glad that he told them his progress, which he hadn't done for over a year.

[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;49501277]At least they would still know Valve is working on it. People would be upset of course, but some people are calling Valve "the WORST game developer right now." They wouldn't have that problem if they were open and honest with people.[/QUOTE] You're right, people would be calling them the worst game developer because they've restarted the same project 7 different times. Get real. That idea would be shit and just make everyone more agitated. Its like teasing a dog but never giving him the treat, then giving him a different treat. Hell, there are still people who comb over the HL2 beta for missing resources trying to reconstruct it because it was so different and interesting in a different way from the final HL2 we got. TF2 at one point was a realistic military shooter like Battlefield, then it became like the original TF, then it became a fucking game about alien invasions like a team-based X-Com, before finally settling on Norman Rockwell Cold War satire. That shit would get so old, so fast if they kept us in the loop of HL3. [QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;49501277]Here's an example of something like that. GRRM gets a LOT of shit for not releasing his books in the Game of Thrones/ASOIAF series quick enough. Last week, he made a long post chronicling how much longer it would take, and that it wouldn't be out before april. After the initial wave of resentment, people were glad that he told them his progress, which he hadn't done for over a year.[/QUOTE] I dont think a book is comparable to video game development.

[QUOTE=Fort83;49501393]It is comparable, both are long awaited products of entertainment that people want to see complete so they can continue experiencing the story. And GRRM has gotten a lot of shit for not completing deadlines on the next book. But he came out and explained the situation to the fans and the obstacles and issues he is facing, and the fans are able to understand why it's taking such a long time to complete and are honestly happy he was able to be honest about it.[/QUOTE] I understand that but they're not the same thing. No offense, but books are pages of text. Video Games involve... A little more work than that. [editline]10th January 2016[/editline] Saying that they're working on it would be nice, dont get me wrong, but i dont think an in-depth explanation would be wise in this scenario. Its not the same thing, its not the same situation.

"VALVE IS NOT MAKING GAMES ANYMORE!!" people like to yell ignoring that they are supporting 2 of the biggest PC games in CS:GO and DOTA 2. And have just released Source 2. And SteamOS. And Steam Link. And Steam controller And working on VR. Whilst just having 300 people employed. They are still making games, but not the ones you want. Although about 1.6 million people right now are happy playing DOTa 2 and CS:GO. And they don't want to be transparent because look at what happened with half-life 2. They remade the whole game in a few years after that leak. It is impressive what Valve does with the small number of employees. But calling them a bad company for "not making games" is a dumb notion, there are so many other things you can call them out for but not getting a game that you want? Like what?

[QUOTE=Valiantttt;49501777] And they don't want to be transparent because look at what happened with half-life 2. They remade the whole game in a few years after that leak.[/QUOTE] Regardless of the other things you said, I always see a statement similar to this pop up and it kind of always bugged me. 1. Valve was already underway with redesigning HL2. 2. A single leak wouldn't cause a game developer to completely recreate their game. 3. Previous transparency had nothing to do with the hl2beta leak. 4. It's no excuse for Valve's continued super tightlipped approach to literally every single one of their products.

[QUOTE=adamsz;49499847]Although one could make the argument that people were fine playing Left 4 Dead until Left 4 Dead 2 was announced and that therefore, nobody asked for a completely new game, I think this would be a great opportunity to showcase the most recent additions to Valve's list of games that they made. [img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8e/ValveTimeline.png[/img] Notice the lack of games made over the past 5-6 years? Count the number of titles that weren't cashgrabs.[/quote] Hmm, I see: - DOTA 2 - Counter-Strike: Global Offensive - Portal 2 - Alien Swarm Out of the three, I like CS:GO, Portal 2, and Alien Swarm. I don't see the problem except the fact that [I]you[/I] don't like those games, in which the problem isn't Valve. [QUOTE=adamsz;49499847]There actually [i]hasn't[/i] been a quality game that Valve made since Portal 2 in 2011.[/quote] [I]Yeah, I can't believe all those fuckin' morons that play CS:GO. What idiots. They don't know good games like you do, adamsz. What sheeple.[/I] [QUOTE=adamsz;49499847]Left 4 Dead 2 was released before that in 2009. The people born in 2009 are about 7 years old now. These kids are starting to play video games themselves. Things aren't as out there as you make them out to be.[/quote] So what? Do you know how many games have been released in seven years? Go play those. The rate of gaming releases by a company isn't a fair measure to depict their success. It's like saying, "Well, The Rolling Stones hasn't released a song since the 80's. They're objectively a bad band now." Despite their last awful album, they're not a bad band. [QUOTE=adamsz;49499847]I think you are exaggerating and twisting my words. I'm concerned that we as gamers are not receiving the kind of openness, respect, and quality products that we deserve and have come to expect from Valve. From talking about this concern with people on TF2 or CSS, whenever the topic is brought up, this is a shared feeling among members of the community.[/quote] I have my own concerns, yes, which mainly involve QA on updates for TF2 or CS:GO. But outside of that, I'm pretty unaffected by this neglect you've apparently been feeling from Valve. Even in terms of support, I've been treated okay. Their support can be better, but Steam launches the games I need to, the games that they do release are fun, and I'm excited for Source 2. I don't exactly feel "neglected". [QUOTE=adamsz;49499847]The practices that Valve has introduced to the gaming industry, have been detrimental to the relations between businesses and consumers.[/quote] Not really. [t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/965202/ShareX/2016/01/2016-01-10_14-08-29.png[/t] In TF2, I've spent quite a bit of money on items that are purely cosmetic, i.e. strange weapons and stuff like that. I don't feel guilty or dirty for doing so, because a couple keys an update is a good way for me to say, "Hey Valve, I like this and I support TF2." That money also helps fund item creators who help create interesting items and weapons for Valve to implement in the game. Since the skin update, I haven't bought keys or anything because I don't support that, but it's also not the end of the world and a lot of people do support it. They think it's cool. A differing opinion from me doesn't mean I have to say "VALVE HAS LOST THEIR WAY". Also, for good measure, here's my CS:GO inventory where I have spent nothing and don't really care about cosmetic stuff whatsoever. [img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/965202/ShareX/2016/01/2016-01-10_14-12-38.png[/img] If you feel like Valve has been creating the perfect cash grab and you can't help but feel your money gravitate towards the screen, maybe it's because [I]you[/I] don't have any self-control and need to take a look in the mirror. [QUOTE=adamsz;49499847]Cash grabbing micro transactions have made other game developers see dollar signs in their eyes.[/quote] Sounds like you should do two things: - Not buy their games - Not buy their microtransactions By the way, the game industry doesn't have to constantly curtail to [I]your[/I] needs. There are some shitty DLC and microtransactions out there, but that's the direction that the game industry was going to take with or without Valve and going to be enabled by people who gladly eat shit. You can't blame Valve for what other people around Valve are doing. If you want to criticize Valve's micro transactions, that's fine, but saying they caused another game developer to do anything is asinine. [QUOTE=adamsz;49499847]The lack of people working on projects together, the lack of enthusiasm and work for the products they have announced like Source 2 is troubling.[/quote] As far as you know [QUOTE=adamsz;49499847]The high school "clique-like mentality" reported by workers at Valve and the company's poor organization skills[/quote] As far as you know [QUOTE=adamsz;49499847]haven't helped with PR either[/quote] I agree that PR in the right places would make a huge difference, but not in stuff like reporting progress on most projects, let alone all of them. [QUOTE=adamsz;49499847]The monopoly Valve has on buying computer games and the piss poor practices regarding customer service, game support, and refunds, are the most worrying of all.[/quote] They are aware of customer service being shit and have focused on correcting issues from the start, i.e. two-step verification using your cell phone. It's not complete ignorance nor is it complete perfection, but to say they aren't doing anything for customer service is an exaggeration and shows you're not looking for [I]any[/I] upsides whatsoever. You already have the conclusion that Valve is bad and so you're going to bias all of your thoughts to ignore upsides and focus on downsides. You're not being fairly critical. Refunds now exist, too, so why people keep referring back to that as if it is a problem because it took so long to do is silly. Problem solved, move on. Game support? Elaborate. [QUOTE=adamsz;49499847]I think we should be asking ourselves serious questions about Valve's place in the market. Are we getting the best product, with the highest support, and of the highest quality? If they continue to make these kind of decisions shouldn't alternative methods be considered?[/quote] It ain't the best but it ain't the worst. It does what I need it to and I move on. In times of crisis I have been helped with support, and they've made strides to correct the issues that made me go to support in the first place. [QUOTE=adamsz;49499847]Regardless of how people spin these stories, Valve needs to show that they want to improve relations.[/quote] Judging by their last blog posts about what's been going on with Steam in terms of hijacking and the Christmas Day fiasco, I'm pretty sure they do and are trying to without breaking their purposeful philosophy on not drawing attention to themselves. [QUOTE=adamsz;49499847]And that means being more transparent with everybody. Both inside and outside the corporation.[/quote] No [QUOTE=adamsz;49499847][b]Something[/b] has to be done, and [i]soon[/i].[/QUOTE] Yeah, you should consider the pros and cons and not just the cons. You're expecting them to revolutionize the game industry every year and if nothing happens, you're quick to bring out your pitch fork. [editline]10th January 2016[/editline] I think people are upset because they can't play backseat manager while snooping around Valve. Valve is kind of this void in their brain where they can't really see how it works, so anything they can do to put together allows them at least some personal precedence to say, "Valve is fucking up internally here, and here, and here." They're one step removed from saying, "Hey Valve, if you've got nothing to hide why don't you just let me look through all your filing cabinets and project files?" while also understanding next to nothing about Valve save for hearsay and the tidbits that Valve does provide on occasion. Instead of focusing on what's going on outside, they focus on Half-Life 3 and the fact that none of the games that come out are Half-Life 3. They get upset and they look at the games and say, "I'm not interested in this. It's obviously SHIT" and start calling out Valve for being money-hungry jackasses who don't know the first thing of game development. They start to act all taunting, saying "They [I]can't[/I] make a good game again. They've lost their way" while everybody else is having fun enjoying L4D2, DOTA2, CS:GO, TF2, and everything else that isn't Valve on Steam. They huff and puff and stomp the ground and feel this false sense of superiority for caring to an extent that is abnormal. That's the point where the argument becomes plagued - if you can't fairly determine the upsides or downsides of anything, how can you fairly argue about it? You can't. If you're in the position where everything about something is great, you're a suck-up, and if you're in the position where everything about something does is shit, you're an asshole. That's not reserved for criticizing game companies - [I]that's life[/I]. It's especially worse when you can't see why others would like it. I don't play DOTA2 and I don't get it. But I do get why people would play it. It's a MOBA, it's Valve, it's got a lot of variety, etc. I can see the basics of why others think it's a good game. I don't think completely of myself, foaming at the mouth pointing and shaking while screaming "CASHGRAB NO-GOOD FUCKS". It's just not my game.

To be fair it is still quite dick-is of valve to not at least tell us if the 3rd game is coming out or not and they made this problem by saying there will be 3 episodes and the 2nd episode [sP]Ended on a Cliffhanger [/sP], and I blame the fact that there staff number is a joke EA have like 8,400 staff member where Steam have 300 at this point which IS a bloody joke Valve/Steam should have no less than about 1,000 people at this point there PR is crap there customer services is crap

[QUOTE=theevilldeadII;49502380]To be fair it is still quite dick-is of valve to not at least tell us if the 3rd game is coming out or not and they made this problem by saying there will be 3 episodes and the 2nd episode [sP]Ended on a Cliffhanger [/sP], and I blame the fact that there staff number is a joke EA have like 8,400 staff member where Steam have 300 at this point which IS a bloody joke Valve/Steam should have no less than about 1,000 people at this point there PR is crap there customer services is crap[/QUOTE] [quote=me]I think people are upset because they can't play backseat manager while snooping around Valve. Valve is kind of this void in their brain where they can't really see how it works, so anything they can do to put together allows them at least some personal precedence to say, "Valve is fucking up internally here, and here, and here."[/quote] I think it's fair to say customer support needs to change, but I don't think you or I or anyone else outside of Valve has the prescription. I don't think you're trying to be mean with it, but same deal. I don't think people can be very accurate outside of Valve even when hearing from Valve, but I think their current structure which contains their creativity would fall apart when adding more employees to it. You'd have to swap out the structure from how it seems.

okay so let the 300 or so stick with the creativity side of things but hire more people for PR and customer focus things so they can spend ALL there time on creativity side of things