IDF plans to opensfield hospital at the Erez border crossing for injured Palestinians, many Palestin
75 replies, posted
[QUOTE]Who launched the attack against the U.N. compound in Beit Hanoun also was under dispute.
The Palestinian Red Crescent said Israeli shells hit the school. But Israel's chief military spokesman, Brig. Gen. Moti Almoz, said the military was investigating and it was too early to know if the deaths were caused by an errant Israeli shell or Hamas fire. "We are not ruling out the possibility that it was Hamas fire," he said.
Another army spokesman, Lt. Col. Peter Lerner, said there had been Hamas fighting in the area.
"We do not target the U.N. We do not target civilians. There was no target in the school. Gunmen were attacking soldiers near the facility. The school was not a target in any way," Lerner said.
The military had urged the U.N. and the Red Cross to evacuate the school for three days leading up to the shelling incident, Almoz said, adding that there had been an increase in Hamas attacks from the area in recent days.
"Despite repeated calls from the military to the U.N. and international organizations to stop the shooting from there because it endangers our forces, we decided to respond. In parallel to our fire there was Hamas fire at the school," Almoz said.[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://bigstory.ap.org/article/gaza-fighting-rages-amid-cease-fire-bid"]The Associated Press[/URL]
[QUOTE=The golden;45499180]The IDF has a civilian death-toll of over 550.
Who the fuck do you think it was?
Also I just want to get this out of the way: Hammer7 and Monkah, you two are fucking disgusting individuals and it's absolutely sickening how much you two defend the actions of the IDF.[/QUOTE]
Probably IDF. Plausibly Hamas.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;45499456]Probably IDF. Plausibly Hamas.[/QUOTE]
And I will agree to that, but there isn't enough evidence to prove without a shadow of a doubt that it was an IDF shell, or a Hamas shell, so you can't blame one of them exclusively for it.
[QUOTE=The golden;45496776]Hamas isn't the one telling civilians to seek shetler in specified buildings and then blowing the shit out of them afterwards ;)[/QUOTE]
Well yes actually they do that ;)
[QUOTE=The golden;45499180]Also I just want to get this out of the way: Hammer7 and Monkah, you two are fucking disgusting individuals and it's absolutely sickening how much you two defend the actions of the IDF.[/QUOTE]
one could say the same for your blindly dogmatic views as well
[QUOTE=Monkah;45497308]No, Hamas is the one that's holding people at gunpoint and forcing them to wait for missiles to hit them.[/QUOTE]
Sometimes i wonder if this person is serious with his retarded comments or just trolling.
[QUOTE=Bucketboy;45504370]Sometimes i wonder if this guy is serious with his retarded comments or just trolling.[/QUOTE]
Sometimes I wonder if you're seriously retarded with your comments or just trolling with all the evidence laying around;
[url]http://honestreporting.com/foreign-journalists-acknowledge-hamas-human-shields-tactics/[/url]
[url]http://pamelageller.com/2014/07/hamas-rockets-found-another-un-school-gaza.html/[/url]
[QUOTE=Seith;45504391]Sometimes I wonder if you're seriously retarded with your comments or just trolling with all the evidence laying around;
[url]http://honestreporting.com/foreign-journalists-acknowledge-hamas-human-shields-tactics/[/url]
[url]http://pamelageller.com/2014/07/hamas-rockets-found-another-un-school-gaza.html/[/url][/QUOTE]
That isn't what a human shield is, also if you read the school one, they removed them and handed them over to the Palestinian authority. There is nothing about Hamas corralling people up and launching missiles at them. They set up in areas which have high number of civilians in order to discourage retaliation, a pretty simple tactic against any opposition that wants to minimize civilian casualties. The reason that it hasn't been working very well is that Israel doesn't seem to care about collateral damage.
They don't tell people to take refuge somewhere and then shell it like IDF have consistently done.
'a simple tactic'? it's a direct statement saying 'we use human shields'. All Hamas has to do is ceasefire, you shoot rockets you get shot at it.
Simple as that.
Also, we don't seem to care? Leaflets, warning shots, videos of air-drops being cancelled due to civilian casualties?
Why are you so in love with Hamas? Does their own tactics effect you reasoning to a point you refuse to accept facts? Does it elude you that it is a terror group? How hypocritical can you get when your own government will not negotiate with terrorists?
We've withdrawn of Gaza strip 9 years ago, and instead of using the funding they get to build a place worthy of living they've invested it in rockets and underground tunnels.
[QUOTE=Seith;45504682]'a simple tactic'? it's a direct statement saying 'we use human shields'. All Hamas has to do is ceasefire, you shoot rockets you get shot at it.
Simple as that.
Also, we don't seem to care? Leaflets, warning shots, videos of air-drops being cancelled due to civilian casualties?
Why are you so in love with Hamas? Does their own tactics effect you reasoning to a point you refuse to accept facts? Does it elude you that it is a terror group? How hypocritical can you get when your own government will not negotiate with terrorists?
We've withdrawn of Gaza strip 9 years ago, and instead of using the funding they get to build a place worthy of living they've invested it in rockets and underground tunnels.[/QUOTE]
1) It is a simple tactic, it decreases effectiveness of any measures to protect civilians. Nothing unexpected about it, did I ever say it was moral? No.
2) I'd say don't [B]seem[/B] to care due to once you send the leaflets they can pack up their equipment and move out, leaving the area barren of the target and they bomb it anyways hitting nothing of value. That and combined with firing on your own designated shelter, an active hospital, and a UN shelter which they were notified about.
I honestly dislike Hamas more than the IDF due to their tactics, however the number of people killed by Israel far exceeds how many have been killed by Hamas, so I call them out on that.
What's your point? Proportions? I didn't know there were rules on how you should wars, could you please enlighten me?
Bomb less? Use more soldiers? More death, so it evens out and so we won't be 'called out'?
People need to grow up.
Hamas is there by the people's choice and so if they start a war they should know how also how to end it. Excuse us for not taking lightly any terror group that shoot civillians. Excuse us for prefering air strikes so we can preserve lives for our cause which is peace and not the other way around which is Hamas' - use people lives in order to gain peace. or whatever, truly they have no goal besides terror.
You can call it a lack of sensitivity, you can call it whatever you want, but if shooting civilians is your cup of tea then they can have a taste of their own.
[img]https://scontent-b-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10557234_10152330872976317_6281501834093499827_n.jpg?oh=e053e0b3efd0cc61bc531c0df34c0cb4&oe=545725E4[/img]
[QUOTE=Seith;45504952]
You can call it a lack of sensitivity, you can call it whatever you want, but if shooting civilians is your cup of tea then they can have a taste of their own.
[/QUOTE]
What the fuck kind of twisted logic is that? An Israeli life isn't worth any more than a Palestinian life. That's not a "lack of sensitivity", it's being no better than they are.
[QUOTE=Seith;45504952]
Excuse us for prefering air strikes so we can preserve lives for our cause which is peace and not the other way around which is Hamas' - use people lives in order to gain peace. or whatever, truly they have no goal besides terror.
[/QUOTE]
Peace is the cause? Are the government-sanctioned settlements on Palestinian lands and refusal to allow a Palestinian state supposed to work towards that cause?
Nobody said that....
[QUOTE=Seith;45504952]What's your point? Proportions? I didn't know there were rules on how you should wars, could you please enlighten me?
Bomb less? Use more soldiers? More death, so it evens out and so we won't be 'called out'?
People need to grow up.
Hamas is there by the people's choice and so if they start a war they should know how also how to end it. Excuse us for not taking lightly any terror group that shoot civillians. Excuse us for prefering air strikes so we can preserve lives for our cause which is peace and not the other way around which is Hamas' - use people lives in order to gain peace. or whatever, truly they have no goal besides terror.
You can call it a lack of sensitivity, you can call it whatever you want, but if shooting civilians is your cup of tea then they can have a taste of their own.
[img]https://scontent-b-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10557234_10152330872976317_6281501834093499827_n.jpg?oh=e053e0b3efd0cc61bc531c0df34c0cb4&oe=545725E4[/img][/QUOTE]
it's wicked how arbitrary and unsourced this picture is. '3 towers'
[QUOTE=Seith;45504952]What's your point? Proportions? I didn't know there were rules on how you should wars, could you please enlighten me?
Bomb less? Use more soldiers? More death, so it evens out and so we won't be 'called out'?
People need to grow up.
Hamas is there by the people's choice and so if they start a war they should know how also how to end it. Excuse us for not taking lightly any terror group that shoot civillians. Excuse us for prefering air strikes so we can preserve lives for our cause which is peace and not the other way around which is Hamas' - use people lives in order to gain peace. or whatever, truly they have no goal besides terror.
You can call it a lack of sensitivity, you can call it whatever you want, but if shooting civilians is your cup of tea then they can have a taste of their own.[/QUOTE]
i fail to see how air strikes and artillery are 'preserving israeli lives'. the iron dome already does its job; and border defense is far simpler to maintain. preserving every single israeli life successfully then attempting to maintain maximal civilian casualties in gaza is a big fuck you to the international committee and even israel knows it.
[editline]26th July 2014[/editline]
[img]https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10472733_10202148010532682_3639232147347384827_n.jpg?oh=40cb23df8055a418991c486354d684ae&oe=543C7E9A&__gda__=1413616012_b69c9c2f5468737f14af40ed32164f9f[/img]
more pics for the israeli hate machine. beautiful white woman defended with baby whilst fat and ugly palestinian lady used as human shield by baby bombing hamas!
maybe they shouldve spent their money on 3 towers and some malls instead??
[QUOTE=Seith;45505316]Nobody said that....[/QUOTE]
It's implied when you defending the hugely disproportionate collateral incurred by the Palestinians "so we can preserve lives for our cause".
I still dont get why people like Hamas
You can dislike and condemn the actions of Israel, but no matter how bad Israel is, or what they're doing, how can you guys like Hamas or support Hamas in anyway?
[QUOTE=SGTSpartans;45506914]I still dont get why people like Hamas
You can dislike and condemn the actions of Israel, but no matter how bad Israel is, or what they're doing, how can you guys like Hamas or support Hamas in anyway?[/QUOTE]
Because angsty teenagers for some reason have the image that Hamas are some Gordon Freeman-esque vigilantes fighting against the evil dystopian empire, when that's clearly not the case.
People need to do their research outside of the sensationalized clickbait they usually view. Any informed (and sane) person would be against Hamas, but a lot of people (kids especially) simply take what BBC News says and regurgitates it onto forums like Facepunch.
Your opinion on the IDF is irrelevant-- you're not sane if you support Hamas.
[QUOTE=Monkah;45507055]Because angsty teenagers for some reason have the image that Hamas are some Gordon Freeman-esque vigilantes fighting against the evil dystopian empire, when that's clearly not the case.
People need to do their research outside of the sensationalized clickbait they usually view. Any informed (and sane) person would be against Hamas, but a lot of people (kids especially) simply take what BBC News says and regurgitates it onto forums like Facepunch.
Your opinion on the IDF is irrelevant-- you're not sane if you support Hamas.[/QUOTE]Out of curiosity, how exactly is the BBC pro-Hamas?
[QUOTE=Monkah;45507055]Because angsty teenagers for some reason have the image that Hamas are some Gordon Freeman-esque vigilantes fighting against the evil dystopian empire, when that's clearly not the case.
People need to do their research outside of the sensationalized clickbait they usually view. Any informed (and sane) person would be against Hamas, but a lot of people (kids especially) simply take what BBC News says and regurgitates it onto forums like Facepunch.
Your opinion on the IDF is irrelevant-- you're not sane if you support Hamas.[/QUOTE]
nobody here is pro hamas. people can be- and are pro democracy; and hamas were democratically elected. the actions of israel cast a huge shadow on those that hamas have committed, which is why they are not the talking point.
If you think people who criticize Israel is a Hamas supporter then you're lost.
Monkah, if you are complaining about the BBC, then you should stop listening and believes everything the IDF say.
[QUOTE=Seith;45504952]Hamas priorities[/QUOTE]
wow, its almost as if the Gaza strip is a besieged coastal enclave.
[QUOTE=Bobie;45507104]and hamas were democratically elected.[/QUOTE]
Hamas were elected in 2006. There has been no Palestinian elections since, neither in Gaza nor the West Bank.
[QUOTE=Bobie;45507104]nobody here is pro hamas. people can be- and are pro democracy; and hamas were democratically elected. the actions of israel cast a huge shadow on those that hamas have committed, which is why they are not the talking point.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, they were elected 8 years ago. And they've forbid having any elections since then. That's not democracy.
[QUOTE=Bucketboy;45507132]If you think people who criticize Israel is a Hamas supporter then you're lost.[/QUOTE] No, there are people who can criticize both (which is far more reasonable), but there are also people who are actually pro-Hamas-- as in, supportive of every missile and act of terrorism they've committed so far.
SGT was asking about pro-Hamas, so I responded. pro-Hamas are usually just the people that are so incredibly anti-Israel that they'd be fine with terrorism to eliminate them.
[QUOTE=Bobie;45507104]nobody here is pro hamas. people can be- and are pro democracy; and hamas were democratically elected. the actions of israel cast a huge shadow on those that hamas have committed, which is why they are not the talking point.[/QUOTE]
This is the type of shit I was talking about when I said people listen way too much to the news instead of looking into the facts themselves.
Hamas was 'elected' eight years ago-- and haven't allowed any political elections since. These are extremists who oppress their own country with extremism and spend the money they get in aid on tunnels and missiles.
There is no democracy in Palestine. Hamas are in no way fit to lead a country either.
[QUOTE=Seith;45504952]What's your point? Proportions? I didn't know there were rules on how you should wars, could you please enlighten me?
Bomb less? Use more soldiers? More death, so it evens out and so we won't be 'called out'?
People need to grow up.
Hamas is there by the people's choice and so if they start a war they should know how also how to end it. Excuse us for not taking lightly any terror group that shoot civillians. Excuse us for prefering air strikes so we can preserve lives for our cause which is peace and not the other way around which is Hamas' - use people lives in order to gain peace. or whatever, truly they have no goal besides terror.
You can call it a lack of sensitivity, you can call it whatever you want, but if shooting civilians is your cup of tea then they can have a taste of their own.
[img]https://scontent-b-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10557234_10152330872976317_6281501834093499827_n.jpg?oh=e053e0b3efd0cc61bc531c0df34c0cb4&oe=545725E4[/img][/QUOTE]
tbh a lot of the tunnels arent built by hamas
a lot of people in the palestine found that an easy way to make money is to build a tunnel themselves and smuggle in things. given the poor opportunities there i can't blame them
[QUOTE=Emperorconor;45507296]tbh a lot of the tunnels arent built by hamas
a lot of people in the palestine found that an easy way to make money is to build a tunnel themselves and smuggle in things. given the poor opportunities there i can't blame them[/QUOTE]
[URL=http://online.wsj.com/articles/michael-mukasey-tunnels-matter-more-than-rockets-to-hamas-1405894408]You can't argue that Hamas didn't have some plans for the tunnels. With this many hostages, they'd be able to negotiate for an incredible amount.[/url]
[I]Kibbutz: A community settlement, usually agricultural, organized under collectivist principles. Mostly populated by younger-aged people and usually financially stable off of a specific trade.[/I]
[QUOTE=Seith;45504952]What's your point? Proportions? I didn't know there were rules on how you should wars, could you please enlighten me?
Bomb less? Use more soldiers? More death, so it evens out and so we won't be 'called out'?
People need to grow up.
Hamas is there by the people's choice and so if they start a war they should know how also how to end it. Excuse us for not taking lightly any terror group that shoot civillians. Excuse us for prefering air strikes so we can preserve lives for our cause which is peace and not the other way around which is Hamas' - use people lives in order to gain peace. or whatever, truly they have no goal besides terror.
You can call it a lack of sensitivity, you can call it whatever you want, but if shooting civilians is your cup of tea then they can have a taste of their own.
[/QUOTE]
There are rules and israel has likely broken several due to destroying hospitals and such. The first Geneva convention protect medical institutions and personal.
The rest of it makes no sense as I am referring to civilians. no matter what government is put in place by those civilians they are not classed as combatants based on the rules of war.
Both sides have killed civilians, the thing is that Israel has killed more than Hamas has in every case.
[url]http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stat/deaths.html[/url]
This is a [I]decent[/I] compilation of data and is in line with many other sources, it just isn't fully up to date.
And before you call their source biased, that is an Israeli source they are using, not Palestinian.
Honestly material damage is irrelevant to me, a building can be repaired or rebuilt, a person cannot, thus I class civilian casualties far higher than material damage.
[QUOTE=Monkah;45507215]No, there are people who can criticize both (which is far more reasonable), but there are also people who are actually pro-Hamas-- as in, supportive of every missile and act of terrorism they've committed so far.
SGT was asking about pro-Hamas, so I responded. pro-Hamas are usually just the people that are so incredibly anti-Israel that they'd be fine with terrorism to eliminate them.
This is the type of shit I was talking about when I said people listen way too much to the news instead of looking into the facts themselves.
Hamas was 'elected' eight years ago-- and haven't allowed any political elections since. These are extremists who oppress their own country with extremism and spend the money they get in aid on tunnels and missiles.
There is no democracy in Palestine. Hamas are in no way fit to lead a country either.[/QUOTE]
so do the people of israel think they're defending themselves or freeing gaza? choose one
the guy above me explains it perfectly. i didnt say they were fit to lead a country; i'm telling you that they were democratically elected. that is what a democracy is. sometimes you vote to not have democracy anymore. that is also democratic; it's not my favourite situation nor should it be anybody's, but its what the people of palestine have upheld.
in a dick-waving competition of how poor the governments have operated; israel wins by far. the damage to buildings, the cost of operating the iron dome, the military force required on the border are irrelevant. israel has targeted places that are not cool to target.
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