[QUOTE=SaltyWaters;40963957]PRISM, and the systems associated with it, presume guilt before any crimes are committed.
It is not the government's prerogative to seek evidence against someone who has done nothing wrong.
On a side note, the NSA along with all Intelligence Organizations are trained liars. They have turned deception into a science and disinformation into a power point slide show. I can't fault you for believing the information they have released, but it is good to keep in mind that they will lie without hesitation.[/QUOTE]
This is completely idiotic, it doesn't presume guilt before innocence, it gathers information on subjects to find out whether they're guilty. It doesn't presume guilt, it presumes suspicion, and why wouldn't they?
[editline]9th June 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=demoguy08;40964975]I also like the argument that because this spy program might technically not break any US laws or the holy Consitution according to some judge(s) appointed by the very government that is committing the acts there can be no wrongdoing, as if the word of the law cannot be scrutinized
has history taught you nothing?
if the law allows for abhorrent breaches of privacy then it obviously needs to be changed[/QUOTE]
It doesn't just "technically not break any laws", it literally doesn't break any laws. It doesn't even do anything that should logically be illegal.
Ron Paul named his kid after Ayn Rand but took the last name?
ahahahahahahaha
oh hey look my states senator is actually doing something
pretty sad that the only people who can generally be counted on to stand up to overbearing government bullshit are the same people we make fun of routinely for being crazy fuckwits. why can't any non-psycho politicians be in favour of defending the individuals rights from the government?
[QUOTE=mokkan;40966329]Ron Paul named his kid after Ayn Rand but took the last name?
ahahahahahahaha[/QUOTE]
His name is Randal. Rand is a nickname like Randy.
[QUOTE=scout1;40963759]Yo you should tell that to a supreme court that says you're wrong. Nothing in the world can stop that except force of arms, and well, the US govt has a monopoly on that.[/QUOTE]
You are no different from Dain with his "Might makes right" stuff.
And then they just invoke the State Secrets Privilege and the suit is thrown out.
The government's only answer to this whole mess has been 'Deal with it'.
If we're to believe the whistleblowers word as gospel, then:
[quote]If I wanted to see your emails or your wife's phone, all I have to do is use intercepts. I can get your emails, passwords, phone records, credit cards.[/quote]
[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/nsa-whistleblower-edward-snowden-why]Source[/url].
Doesn't sound like they have to go through 'due process' to receive this kind of information.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;40963736]I believe that his Fillibuster was genuine but I believe he only cares about American interests. I believe that Ron Paul valued the lives of foreigners as well as Americans which is why he was opposed to war and drone strikes. Rand Paul is against drone strikes on Americans but is completely fine with Drone strikes on foreigners.[/QUOTE]
we are talking about the same guy right? the same person who would go down and say
"If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and $50 in cash, I don't care if a drone kills him or a policeman kills him"
source [url]http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/04/23/ron_paul_fans_furious_over_rand_pauls_drone_flip_flop[/url]
but it's ok. he doesn't want drones spying on americans , totally ok with them killing you though
Obama is such a dumb ass. I pity all of the people who thought he was literally Jesus because of his 'hope and change' campaign.
[QUOTE=Medevilae;40962664]He has ulterior (political) motivation for doing it[/QUOTE]
Although it's consistent with beliefs that he's always had - e.g. opposing the PATRIOT act, etc.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;40963686]from what i've read about PRISM so far it is the NSA working in cooperation with private corporations to access their data when necessary. i've not seen any evidence that any laws are being broken.[/QUOTE]
It's quite simple-
The ISPs, social networks, and phone companies are private companies, and you are in a contract with them when you use their services. You agree to allow them access to your information, and if they see something suspicious and report it, and then the police follow up on the report, it's legal under the forth amendment thanks to probable cause.
What the NSA is doing is making itself a third party in every form of communication. This is a search without probable cause or warrant, because they are monitoring you without any evidence or suspicion of crime. Any information gathered in this fashion is akin to the cops secretly planting a microphone under your couch. Just because the feds get permission from your landlord to enter your apartment doesn't mean that it's open season to spy on you.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;40962666]Well they have voted against stripping away American liberties and Rand Paul did do that Fillabuster that brought alot of attention towards the governments insanity.[/QUOTE]
And then 3 days later he said Hellfire-equipped drones should be used against criminals.
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40966268]This is completely idiotic, it doesn't presume guilt before innocence, it gathers information on subjects to find out whether they're guilty. It doesn't presume guilt, it presumes suspicion, and why wouldn't they?.[/QUOTE]
It monitors absolutely every single piece of data that goes through the system, waiting for something criminal to happen. If that's because the subjects are being suspicious, then you have the kind of paranoia that tells you that [B]everyone[/B] is suspicious.
If you honestly believe that the whole system is used for nothing but protecting the US then you're naive past the point of salvation. They have the ability to get private conversations, private information, and most of the time this will [U]not[/U] be related to any suspicions of terrorism.
Think of it this way: They would have to monitor you to know if you're a foreigner. This means they have access to all your data, all your emails, all your messages, your location at many given times and pretty much anything about you. Do you feel comfortable with some people in suits knowing all your secrets? Are you comfortable with having absolutely no privacy at all?
I know i'm not, and the sad part is that people like you are going to believe what they're saying and defend them, and then nothing will get done about it
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