Editor Of Bangladesh's Only LGBT Magazine Is Hacked To Death - Polidicks

[QUOTE=BelatedGamer;50211939]I think a lot of you are misinterpreting things and conflating "muslims" with "islam".[/QUOTE] I think in this context the difference is negligible at best. It's like saying "At what point do we finally, universally declare racism a blight upon the Earth?" - we can all agree the concept and act of racism is detestable, so are the people who practice it not just as detestable for being racist? They could be good, honest people - yet they hold a prejudice against a certain group - this is obviously a terrible quality to have as a person but you would not go and say you are criticizing the concept of racism or white supremacy without criticizing neo nazis and racists. It's a pretty sparse comparison, I know, but I think you'd see my point - staticman is not criticizing the contents of the book of Islam, he is saying that Islam (which is a practiced faith and ideology) is a literal plague afflicting this planet - what does that say about the character of people who follow knowingly follow Islam, a so-called blight upon the earth ideology?

[QUOTE=sltungle;50209283]While this is definitely not true, moderate Muslims worldwide are still, on average, much more extreme than moderates from other similarly large religions worldwide. It's a touchy subject, but one that really needs to be discussed if we're going to collectively move forward as a species. There are a large number of people who want equality in all forms; we want western ideals to reign supreme, yet we also want for people of all creeds to be able to follow their religious and cultural doctrines without persecution. We want the end goal so badly that we refuse to even discuss what happens when these very religious and cultural beliefs are directly against the grain of western ideals on a perceptibly large scale, instead accusing each other of being culturally insensitive, or worse yet, racist. Equality in all forms is a lovely notion, but it may turn out that the differences between certain cultures are just too great to ever be reconcilable with a notion of absolute equality.[/QUOTE] Christianity doesn't exactly adhere perfectly to modern day western ideals, but in developed nations people are better at ignoring distasteful aspects of a religion or belief in pursuit of more civil behaviour. The majority of Muslims are not from developed nations, but if you actually look at muslims born into developed nations, you will see that the majority of them, even if their immediate parents weren't born in the country in question, are much more progressive. So this idea of Muslims, as a whole, being more extreme than religions like Christianity, whilst technically correct, fails to take into account that Muslims, as a whole, also grow up in far worse conditions than Christians. In similar conditions it can reasonably be assumed that Christians would be equally barbaric and there is a long history of people of most every religion being barbaric to one another whilst living in awful conditions, which I believe supports this idea. So no, I don't believe that Islam is some kind of magical antimatter for western ideals, its just that the Muslim world is, by and large, a shithole and people act shitty when they grow up in a shithole. To say that particular Muslim nations are a blight on the earth, if somewhat melodramatic, might hold some water. To say that Islam as a whole is a blight upon the earth is reactionary bullshit. But ultimately, I think the worst part about your argument here is that you are very meekly advocating persecution for Muslims, whom you yourself admit aren't all bad, for what exactly? You've assumed that Islam is inherently against western values, or at least that it may be, so apparently even you aren't sure, and, in response to this you want Muslims to... not be quite equal? That seems to fly in the face of western ideals if not more, then at least as much, as Islam supposedly does.

[QUOTE=Reaper297;50209084]Because all people that practice Islam are terrorists right?[/QUOTE] It is barbaric that so many don't work more against acts like this and let it keep happening.

[QUOTE=!LORD M!;50212308]It is barbaric that so many don't work more against acts like this and let it keep happening.[/QUOTE] That so many who? Are you saying it is the responsibility of muslims to protest against religious extremism in other parts of the world, or even local to those events? Maybe I'm totally putting words in your mouth but it just sounds like you're saying muslims should take responsibility for terrorism somehow.

[QUOTE=staticman;50208815]I can't be the only one getting sick and tired of hearing the same old same old, right? At what point do we finally, universally declare Islam a blight upon the Earth?[/QUOTE] Declaring a war upon Islam and alienating the billion+ of muslims isn't going to end or even reduce islamic extremism nor is it going to bring social progress to muslim parts of the world and it certainly won't have a favourable impact on muslims living in the west either. It's a little too complicated to just universally declaring Islam a blight upon the earth and expect good results.

[QUOTE=Milkdairy;50212185]I think in this context the difference is negligible at best. It's like saying "At what point do we finally, universally declare racism a blight upon the Earth?" - we can all agree the concept and act of racism is detestable, so are the people who practice it not just as detestable for being racist? They could be good, honest people - yet they hold a prejudice against a certain group - this is obviously a terrible quality to have as a person but you would not go and say you are criticizing the concept of racism or white supremacy without criticizing neo nazis and racists. It's a pretty sparse comparison, I know, but I think you'd see my point - staticman is not criticizing the contents of the book of Islam, he is saying that Islam (which is a practiced faith and ideology) is a literal plague afflicting this planet - what does that say about the character of people who follow knowingly follow Islam, a so-called blight upon the earth ideology?[/QUOTE] I think that Muslims -- like all people, including racists -- are not entirely defined by a single belief that they hold, and can be good or bad people depending on how strongly they adhere to that belief and others. I wouldn't go as far as saying what he said. But I do think that Islam and many other religions are extremely backwards and oftentimes dangerous. Does that mean I think that Muslims are all backward and dangerous? Not at all, because most of them are very mellow people that don't actually take all the "bad" parts of their religion to heart, and because no one is entirely defined by their religion anyway. Which is a point I think people on both sides of this argument are forgetting, some more than others of course.

[QUOTE=staticman;50208815]I can't be the only one getting sick and tired of hearing the same old same old, right? At what point do we finally, universally declare Islam a blight upon the Earth?[/QUOTE] The problem there is these are extremists, not all of them are like this. Though personally I think religion should be removed from society as in no religion laws are to be accepted in society, and no tax breaks for churches etc.

The problem aren't muslims, But Islam. When its put into government, humans rights go down the drain, personal freedoms are destroyed and corrupt regimes take over. Many democracies we've attempted to create fail to due to an islamic party getting in power and enforcing their religion on everyone. To an extent, the religion is a blight on the Earth, it has the most active extremist groups out there, has the most radicalism, than any other religion. And the Islamic community needs to work together to condemn this and reform their religion to prevent such radicalism from occuring. Unfortunately, few are working that hard to reform the religion, and those who do are ignored. We can't just close our ears and say "lalalalala this isnt islam", we need to point out THIS IS islam, and that the muslim community needs to properly address this, and needs to properly reform. It's not racism to criticize Islam, and criticize Muslims for not addressing this properly.

[QUOTE=bitches;50212381]That so many who? Are you saying it is the responsibility of muslims to protest against religious extremism in other parts of the world, or even local to those events? Maybe I'm totally putting words in your mouth but it just sounds like you're saying muslims should take responsibility for terrorism somehow.[/QUOTE] If an american politician, say Bernie Sanders, were to be asked to condemn an attempt at Donald Trump's life, would he not do so? In the same vein, would not a muslim condemn ISIS or terror attacks committed by muslims? Unfortunately the answer to that question is too often no. Even though any non-muslim would not even flinch before condemning ISIS.

[QUOTE=momoiro;50214140]If an american politician, say Bernie Sanders, were to be asked to condemn an attempt at Donald Trump's life, would he not do so? In the same vein, would not a muslim condemn ISIS or terror attacks committed by muslims? Unfortunately the answer to that question is too often no. Even though any non-muslim would not even flinch before condemning ISIS.[/QUOTE] Being asked for and answering with your moral opinion on someone else's actions is not the same thing as owing responsibility to condemn the actions of others. For example a follower of the muslim faith in the USA has no moral obligation to verbally condemn the actions of a terrorist. It's like saying white people who never owned slaves should apologize for slavery.

[QUOTE=staticman;50208815]I can't be the only one getting sick and tired of hearing the same old same old, right? At what point do we finally, universally declare Islam a blight upon the Earth? [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitposting" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight][/QUOTE] the most American post on Facepunch 2k16

[QUOTE=staticman;50208815]I can't be the only one getting sick and tired of hearing the same old same old, right? At what point do we finally, universally declare Islam a blight upon the Earth? [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitposting" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight][/QUOTE] I have no idea why he was banned for this. There is nothing wrong with saying "fuck Islam" or "we are at war with Islam" or "Islam needs to be destroyed". In fact, I believe in all of these statements. I believe that religion is a terrible blight upon the world that has caused untold amounts of suffering throughout human existence. There is nothing wrong with picking a particular religion and saying "fuck that". I could also go further and say "fuck Muslims". Why? Because these beliefs mean nothing if nobody believes in them. Muslims [I]are[/I] a problem, its really not just Islam. This is a very simple point to understand. I shouldn't have to add this, but I would say the exact same things about Christianity/Christians, Judaism/Jews, Buddhism/Buddhists, Jainism/Jains, or any other dogmatic ideology and its followers. There is nothing wrong with that. But if you don't see the extra evil that Islam is adding to the world today you are fooling yourself. I'm going to make this exact same post next time a Christian does something bad, but replace "Islam" with "Christianity". Watch me not get banned. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitpostimg" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight]

He was banned because he said a thing that isn't really appreciated around here And for the record, intolerance is fucking terrible no matter what it is [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Derailing" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=Kylel999;50214845]He was banned because he said a thing that isn't really appreciated around here And for the record, intolerance is fucking terrible no matter what it is[/QUOTE] I literally just explained how saying that is not intolerance. How is intolerant to want to get rid of beliefs that you find vile?

[QUOTE=Pantz Master;50214873]I literally just explained how saying that is not intolerance. [I]How is intolerant to want to get rid of beliefs that you find vile?[/I][/QUOTE] Because that's exactly how a man ended up with his head hacked off?

[QUOTE=Kylel999;50214883]Because that's exactly how a man ended up with his head hacked off?[/QUOTE] My mistake, I thought you were responding to my post and saying its intolerant to say "fuck x religion".

No, that's perfectly fine. You don't have to like any religion. But treating somebody differently because of their beliefs is wrong because it most likely doesn't affect your life to the point where action has to be taken unless they're radicalized or something

While islamic terrorist attacks are far more numerous than extremist christians in this time, it isnt fair to say everyone following islam is horrible. Ridiculous, the middle east world used to be the most advanced civilization in the world: culturally and scientifically. There's a lot of factors as to why it went to shit after WW1, but shitting on muslims as a whole is retarded.

[QUOTE=Rufia;50212298]But ultimately, I think the worst part about your argument here is that you are very meekly advocating persecution for Muslims, whom you yourself admit aren't all bad, for what exactly? You've assumed that Islam is inherently against western values, or at least that it may be, so apparently even you aren't sure, and, in response to this you want Muslims to... not be quite equal? That seems to fly in the face of western ideals if not more, then at least as much, as Islam supposedly does.[/QUOTE] I am arguing no such point and don't you dare put words in my mouth. I'm merely playing the devils advocate here as I believe it's intellectually dishonest to say that we can have absolute equality where everybody is 100% happy (which, believe it or not, a lot of people somehow think is possible) and yet not consider what happens when two cultures which are in many ways the polar opposites to one another collide. Over time I'd prefer it if other cultures osmotically absorbed western ideals (the good ones, not the shit ones (because there are many shit beliefs and ideals that we cling to in the western world)), and, hell, we could do to pick up a few ideals from other cultures too (individualism is great, but only to a point) but even then I must concede that, even though that's my preferred outcome, it's still pretty shitty in the sense that it's effectively the equivalent of cultural brainwashing, only slowly; you still lose the original culture in many senses, you just get to feel better about it.

[QUOTE=sltungle;50215212]I am arguing no such point and don't you dare put words in my mouth. I'm merely playing the devils advocate here as I believe it's intellectually dishonest to say that we can have absolute equality where everybody is 100% happy (which, believe it or not, a lot of people somehow think is possible) and yet not consider what happens when two cultures which are in many ways the polar opposites to one another collide. Over time I'd prefer it if other cultures osmotically absorbed western ideals (the good ones, not the shit ones (because there are many shit beliefs and ideals that we cling to in the western world)), and, hell, we could do to pick up a few ideals from other cultures too (individualism is great, but only to a point) but even then I must concede that, even though that's my preferred outcome, it's still pretty shitty in the sense that it's effectively the equivalent of cultural brainwashing, only slowly; you still lose the original culture in many senses, you just get to feel better about it.[/QUOTE] I mean I'm sorry if that isn't what you meant, but if you're saying shit like this: [QUOTE]There are a large number of people who want equality in all forms; we want western ideals to reign supreme, yet we also want for people of all creeds to be able to follow their religious and cultural doctrines without persecution.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Equality in all forms is a lovely notion, but it may turn out that the differences between certain cultures are just too great to ever be reconcilable with a notion of absolute equality.[/QUOTE] whilst playing devils advocate for someone who said that Islam should be universally declared a blight upon the earth, it does somewhat give the impression that you think that Muslims shouldn't quite be treated as equal. Usually when people say equality, they use it to refer to someone's rights. I have very rarely heard people use the word equality to refer to how happy people are.

[QUOTE=Rufia;50215405]I mean I'm sorry if that isn't what you meant, but if you're saying shit like this: whilst playing devils advocate for someone who said that Islam should be universally declared a blight upon the earth, it does somewhat give the impression that you think that Muslims shouldn't quite be treated as equal. Usually when people say equality, they use it to refer to someone's rights. I have very rarely heard people use the word equality to refer to how happy people are.[/QUOTE] How do you manage to construe that out of his post? By equality he means equality in terms of rights to practice one's culture. If one culture considers homosexuals are normal human beings, and another treats them as subhumans, then it is necessary to reform the latter to ensure basic human rights.

Here's how you ensure basic human rights without immoral "cultural brainwashing"; Get with the idea that people, no matter how many or few are still people and each have as big of an impact on society as you do. Okay some people have views and opinions that you can tell are essentially destructive or will have a destructive impact on people. Well, opinions and views that are derived from critical thinking and an understanding of bias are the ones that should be the most constructive ones right? Even in the west this kind of thinking isn't necessarily the norm because of issues with education primarily. If you improve education and other social support systems you'll get smarter people who are more likely to reform their society for the better. It makes sense to be humanitarian when it comes to these sort of issues.

[QUOTE=MrJazzy;50215579]Here's how you ensure basic human rights without immoral "cultural brainwashing"; Get with the idea that people, no matter how many or few are still people and each have as big of an impact on society as you do. Okay some people have views and opinions that you can tell are essentially destructive or will have a destructive impact on people. Well, opinions and views that are derived from critical thinking and an understanding of bias are the ones that should be the most constructive ones right? Even in the west this kind of thinking isn't necessarily the norm because of issues with education primarily. If you improve education and other social support systems you'll get smarter people who are more likely to reform their society for the better. It makes sense to be humanitarian when it comes to these sort of issues.[/QUOTE] This post is spot on. If we (and Muslims living in the Islamic world) make an effort to actually tackle cultural, social, and governmental issues faced by many Islamic countries then we may well see the growth of a generation of peace-minded Muslims. Let's not forget that Christians of the middle ages would have called for a heretic to be burned, hanged, or worse. The masses surely held no doubts that the death of such a person (as terrible as we see it today) was justified. The Islamic world as it is today is a much harsher reality than hometown USA or hyper-modern Western Europe. The culture and the way people view violence will change to reflect advances in culture and society if efforts are made to make these advancements. One has to remember that most if not all majority Muslim nations lack a clear-cut separation of state and religion. This alone is an important factor in influencing the population's view on religion.

I like to test my mental strength by coming into these threads and reading the dumbest comments. I can barely ever make it past the first page. Regardless, this is horrible and will only further push people to generalizing the people of Islam.

[QUOTE=_Axel;50215461]How do you manage to construe that out of his post? By equality he means equality in terms of rights to practice one's culture. If one culture considers homosexuals are normal human beings, and another treats them as subhumans, then it is necessary to reform the latter to ensure basic human rights.[/QUOTE] Bingo. I'm glad somebody got what I was getting at.