Even after the approval Chelsea Manning is still being refused gender treatment - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Elecbullet;45778794]I really do understand that it's hurtful to you, it's just something that is very difficult to explain to straight/cis/cis people.[/QUOTE] I really, really wish I could be a vengeful spirit like Ghost Rider that could Penance Stare individuals into experiencing the living hell that is life for so many of us.

[QUOTE=Levithan;45778754]If you don't mean any disrespect then respect them by [i]calling them by what they want to be called[/i]. For us, it's like every day every person you come across refers to you by "Butthole", and the day you get fed up with it and ask "Hey, could you refer to me as ma'm instead of Butthole? Thanks." but then you find that there's a sizable portion of the population that have a stick stuck up their rectum that won't let go of calling you "Butthole" even when they "Don't mean any disrespect!!!" It takes SOOO little effort to just type out one extra letter when going she/her to be respectful, it's easier than typing please or thank you. But nah, this is the internet; where all forms of civility or kindness are thrown into the abyss to never be seen again.[/QUOTE] But what if your are a literal butthole. People are calling you as what they think is a butthole, because you are one. Now, if you dress up and have surgery to look and be a human, then yes, I think its rude to still address you as a butthole to your face or when referring personally to you.

[QUOTE=BusterBluth;45778819]But what if your are a literal butthole. People are calling you as what they think is a butthole, because you are one. Now, if you dress up and have surgery to look and be a human, then yes, I think its rude to still address you as a butthole to your face or when referring personally to you.[/QUOTE] Because they've always been a human (girl) even if they look like a butthole (boy). That's the whole point of my previous post. Is it really hard to just correct yourself if you are clearly aware of the situation? Christ. Does it really take so much effort to add one extra letter and show some basic human decency?

i didn't actually realise how much of facepunch is transphobic wow this put a downer on my day

[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;45778831]Because they've always been a human (girl) even if they look like a butthole (boy). That's the whole point. Is it really hard to just correct yourself if you are clearly aware of the situation? Christ. Does it really take so much effort to add one extra letter?[/QUOTE] Its not, I never said it was, all I have said this whole thread is that calling a pre operation man a man isn't some horrible bigoted thing. Most people identify sex by if you have a dick or penis, you disagree obviously by that long as post. I think you can identify people in a totally neutral manner like that, you fundamentally disagree. The argument is going to go anywhere, I never thought it would, but being called a bigot over something as passive as that is dumb.

Going through a lot of work to prove that they're not being disrespectful when ACTUALLY being respectful is the most minimal of efforts. Erasing someone's identity like you're doing, even behind their backs(!!!), is a large part of dehumanizing them. It's also a very good way to out a transgender person, if you ever talk about them to someone they're not out to. Did you know that can actually get many of us killed?? (seeing as transfolk have a 1 in 12 chance of being murdered) So much for being respectful huh.

[QUOTE=codenamecueball;45778857]i didn't actually realise how much of facepunch is transphobic wow this put a downer on my day[/QUOTE] What? Me and the other guy at the start of the thread, which actually was transphobic in tone.

[QUOTE=BusterBluth;45778866]Its not, I never said it was, all I have said this whole thread is that calling a pre operation man a man isn't some horrible bigoted thing. Most people identify sex by if you have a dick or penis, you disagree obviously by that long as post. I think you can identify people in a totally neutral manner like that, you fundamentally disagree. The argument is going to go anywhere, I never thought it would, but being called a bigot over something as passive as that is dumb.[/QUOTE] Getting SRS is probably really expensive and hard. If they go through all the dozens of other things they can do to identify as the opposite gender [I]besides[/I] the actual sexual reassignment surgery, then they are literally not transsexual, but everything else that you see without taking their clothes off matches the opposite gender, and you ought to call them by that. Maybe (as in Chelsea's case) they simply are not able to get the surgery they want.

[QUOTE=BusterBluth;45778866][b]Its not, I never said it was, all I have said this whole thread is that calling a pre operation man a man isn't some horrible bigoted thing.[/b] Most people identify sex by if you have a dick or penis, you disagree obviously by that long as post. I think you can identify people in a totally neutral manner like that, you fundamentally disagree. The argument is going to go anywhere, I never thought it would, but being called a bigot over something as passive as that is dumb.[/QUOTE] But it is if you know full and well of their status. If you don't, fine, that's understandable. But if you know and continue misgendering them then you're just being a cunt.

[QUOTE=Levithan;45778868]Going through a lot of work to prove that they're not being disrespectful when ACTUALLY being respectful is the most minimal of efforts. Erasing someone's identity like you're doing, even behind their backs(!!!), is a large part of dehumanizing them. It's also a very good way to out a transgender person, if you ever talk about them to someone they're not out to. Did you know that can actually get many of us killed?? (seeing as transfolk have a 1 in 12 chance of being murdered) So much for being respectful huh.[/QUOTE] That would be disrespectful! But we all know Bradly Manning is or was at one point a man. Some one calls her a him on an internet forum, its shouldn't be a big deal when its apparent no disrespect was meant. Jeez I don't think people using pronouns interchangeably are getting you killed.

[QUOTE=BusterBluth;45778906]That would be disrespectful! But we all know Bradly Manning is or was at one point a man. Some one calls her a him on an internet forum, its shouldn't be a big deal when its apparent no disrespect was meant. Jeez I don't think people using pronouns interchangeably are getting you killed.[/QUOTE] It's more of the fact that almost every article about her uses her preferred name and the correct pronouns. And then we have people coming in here going, "hurr durr its Bradley not Chelsea he still has a dick!!!," just to be assholes.

[QUOTE=Elecbullet;45778895]Getting SRS is probably really expensive and hard. If they go through all the dozens of other things they can do to identify as the opposite gender [I]besides[/I] the actual sexual reassignment surgery, then they are literally not transsexual, but everything else that you see without taking their clothes off matches the opposite gender, and you ought to call them by that. Maybe (as in Chelsea's case) they simply are not able to get the surgery they want.[/QUOTE] True, perhaps its a big disrespectful if you know and call him a her or what have you, I conceded that. But regardless I don't think its a big deal in this setting and I don't think it equals being a bigot or a transhpobe [editline]23rd August 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;45778919]It's more of the fact that almost every article about her uses her preferred name and the correct pronouns. And then we have people coming in here going, "hurr durr its Bradley not Chelsea he still has a dick!!!," just to be assholes.[/QUOTE] But no one said that. The first post was transphobic but using the word guy seemed just like something that was done automatically. I still want to call Manning by the name Bradley just because I am use to it.

[QUOTE=Crash155;45778618]this is why I think he/his/him should be unisex pronouns[/QUOTE] There's a magical neutral pronoun, are you ready to hear it? It's "they".

[QUOTE=BusterBluth;45778552]I fully support whatever trans people want to do and what not but this whole "shes a she" thing is a bit ridiculous. He's still biologicaly and physically 100% a dude right now. Calling him a guy isn't some horrible anti trans comment.[/QUOTE] When you are kindly asked by the person in question or someone in a similar situation, and the person in question prefer to be called "she", it kind of is honestly. It's not that difficult and it doesn't cost you anything to do it.

[QUOTE=ZestyLemons;45778993]There's a magical neutral pronoun, are you ready to hear it? It's "they".[/QUOTE] no need to be a dick, I know to use "they"

I don't get the whole "using a trans person's birth-assigned pronouns/gendered terms before they transition" because I mean, they already are the gender they identify as. Trans people only transition for themselves, not anyone else, and many transitioning or already-transitioned trans people are non-operative, i.e. they don't get bottom surgery. What I'm saying is, the green light for referring to them as their identified gender and using the correct terms, etc. is when they come out, NOT only when they fully transition. Chelsea Manning is already a woman. Her status as an incarcerated criminal or her being unable to transition due to fucked up bureaucracy doesn't change that. (Neither does not being used to it, because Chelsea's been in the news as Chelsea for far longer than she has been as Bradley.)

[QUOTE=Arctic-Zone;45779570]I don't get the whole "using a trans person's birth-assigned pronouns/gendered terms before they transition" because I mean, they already are the gender they identify as. Trans people only transition for themselves, not anyone else, and many transitioning or already-transitioned trans people are non-operative, i.e. they don't get bottom surgery. What I'm saying is, the green light for referring to them as their identified gender and using the correct terms, etc. is when they come out, NOT only when they fully transition. Chelsea Manning is already a woman. Her status as an incarcerated criminal or her being unable to transition due to fucked up bureaucracy doesn't change that.[/QUOTE] It probably goes back to the eternal ignorance of the difference between "sex" and "gender"

[QUOTE=Lium;45778643]They are, technically. It's perfectly valid to call someone a he if you don't know their actual gender.[/QUOTE] Or maybe neutral pronouns like they/them? Why should we automatically assume one is a male? Also, does this remind anyone of the episode(s) of OITNB where they started denying Sophia of her hormones? [I]Please tell me im not the only one[/I]

How ignorant is it if you refer to Transgenders as "it"? It makes sense from a linguistic point of view.

[QUOTE=The Combine;45779693]How ignorant is it if you refer to Transgenders as "it"? It makes sense from a linguistic point of view.[/QUOTE] Do you call cis people "it"?

[QUOTE=The Combine;45779693]How ignorant is it if you refer to Transgenders as "it"? It makes sense from a linguistic point of view.[/QUOTE] Dehumanizes them.

[QUOTE=The Combine;45779693]How ignorant is it if you refer to Transgenders as "it"? It makes sense from a linguistic point of view.[/QUOTE] Yeah! Let's dehumanize an oppressed group even more. Transgender isn't a noun, btw. It doesn't even make sense from a linguistic point of view. Are people in general referred to as "it"? Fuck no.

[QUOTE=The Combine;45779693]How ignorant is it if you refer to Transgenders as "it"? It makes sense from a linguistic point of view.[/QUOTE] Humm, about a ten out of ten on the ignorance scale.

It's sad to see how many people are rating this winner. Some of you guys need to seriously get off the internet until you're emotionally mature enough for it.

[QUOTE=The Combine;45779693]How ignorant is it if you refer to Transgenders as "it"? It makes sense from a linguistic point of view.[/QUOTE] It doesn't even "make sense" from a linguistic point of view, because they are fitting into the gender that they want to be up until you voice your shitty objection. What you're saying is basically "I don't want to bother dealing with five seconds' potential ambiguity over the proper pronoun so I'm going to cop out and use the most dehumanizing term possible"

Man, seems to be serious business, and you always call them "he/she" based on who they think they are?

[QUOTE=The Combine;45779759]Man, seems to be serious business, and you always call them "he/she" based on who they think they are?[/QUOTE] That is how you generally deal with humans, yes.

[QUOTE=The Combine;45779759]Man, seems to be serious business, and you always call them "he/she" based on who they think they are?[/QUOTE] yeah, it's respectful. if you don't understand how transgenderism works at a biological, emotional, or mental level, then don't comment. calling people 'it' is obviously disrespectful and i'm pretty sure even children know better.

[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;45779753]It's sad to see how many people are rating this winner. Some of you guys need to seriously get off the internet until you're emotionally mature enough for it.[/QUOTE] Not everybody is a fan of this weird movement. That said I have nothing against it, everybody can do whatever the fuck they want as long as it makes them happy. None of my business. But if people get angry in public because I referred to them as the wrong term it's a bit stupid IMO.

[QUOTE=The Combine;45779770]Not everybody is a fan of this weird movement.[/QUOTE] weird movement meaning a movement that values peoples interior images of themselves based on the fact that your mentality and biology are not connected in regards to gender?