Pharma companies disown Shkreli; Pissed, Shkreli airs their dirty laundry
95 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Mentlegen;51723570]He hiked up the price of an affordable drug to ridiculous amounts as a starter, causing people who relied on it to get fucked over tremendously. He then lied and said he would reduce the price due to the backlash and never did. He literally price-gouged it for profit just because he acquired the rights to it. He acts like a spoiled shithole all the time as well and isn't afraid to flaunt his wealth. I don't agree with what he has done, nor how he acts. I despise people like him, but that's just my opinion. Other people are free to disagree with me.[/QUOTE]
Its like you have some sort of square box that tells you what to believe.
thats fucked up man
[QUOTE=Mentlegen;51723570]He hiked up the price of an affordable drug to ridiculous amounts as a starter, causing people who relied on it to get fucked over tremendously.[/QUOTE]
Question, and this is important:
Can you actually give an example of someone who was fucked over by what he did?
You can criticize how he went about this however you want, your opinion, but i want a citation on that if you may.
[QUOTE=Mentlegen;51723570]He then lied and said he would reduce the price due to the backlash and never did. He literally price-gouged it for profit just because he acquired the rights to it.[/QUOTE]
I dont think he ever did, his explanation was that he did it to pressure other companies into and help fund research. However true that is is another story, of course.
[QUOTE=srobins;51723584]But nobody went without the medicine, Turing gave it away for free/at discount and where did he claim he was going to lower the price? Last I remember he said he would raise it again if he could.[/QUOTE]
Do you have proof that Turing did? Cause if so then I'd actually loosen up on him if his company gave it out for free/discounted to people. He put out a claim himself that he'd look into lowering the price to make it more affordable after the massive backlash that happened.
[QUOTE=Mentlegen;51723611]Do you have proof that Turing did? Cause if so then I'd actually loosen up on him if his company gave it out for free/discounted to people.[/QUOTE]
He mentioned it in a livestream conversation and, i might be wrong, but i [i]think[/i](?) it might be mentioned on their website.
[QUOTE=Mentlegen;51723611]He put out a claim himself that he'd look into lowering the price to make it more affordable after the massive backlash that happened.[/QUOTE]
Did he? Link?
If he did, he claimed recently to be giving it out free and at an insurance discount like the other dude said so that'd probably line up.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;51723607]Question, and this is important:
Can you actually give an example of someone who was fucked over by what he did?
You can criticize how he went about this however you want, your opinion, but i want a citation on that if you may.
I dont think he ever did, his explanation was that he did it to pressure other companies into and help fund research. However true that is is another story, of course.[/QUOTE]
Not personally no actually.
And if so that's... Actually an okay reason if his company really did give it away for free/discounted. Maybe I'm a hell of a lot more uninformed than originally thought. My bad guys, I rescind my previous comments.
[QUOTE=Mentlegen;51723626]Not personally no actually.
And if so that's... Actually an okay reason if his company really did give it away for free/discounted. Maybe I'm a hell of a lot more uninformed than originally thought. My bad guys, I rescind my previous comments.[/QUOTE]
Again, thats what they claim and apparently do, but the number of people who use the drug is stupidly small so its hard to really get any hard proof, which is also why i asked for an example. Previous thread about this guy i asked people saying similar stuff if they could provide an example of people negatively effected by what he did and nobody could, while other people did find some substantiating stuff related to his claims in regards to the company's financial situation (they operate at a loss).
The man himself seems like a tool and if you take his word for it you can probably still criticize how he went about it (especially encouraging the media to demonize him which leads to a whole slew of confusion and necessary arguments IE: this thread). In general i think its dangerous to demonize someone or something or be quick to justify something else unless you can back up why you think that (especially if its something like calling a dude the scum of the earth or trying to justify assault or whatever).
[QUOTE=Mentlegen;51723611]Do you have proof that Turing did? Cause if so then I'd actually loosen up on him if his company gave it out for free/discounted to people. He put out a claim himself that he'd look into lowering the price to make it more affordable after the massive backlash that happened.[/QUOTE]
That's what I'm referring to; Shkreli claimed his company would make the drug available for free or at discount for people/facilities that needed it. To my knowledge there are no documented instances of patients or facilities who were subsequently unable to obtain Daraprim at a reasonable price past the initial price scare. Someone linked to the congressional report and cited an initial case of a co-pay going way up and a pharmacy that were unable to afford the medication initially, but even the congressional report included Turing's patient outreach director making an active effort to help resolve it and get the drug out for cheaper. As far as I or anyone else can tell, everybody that needs/needed Daraprim has it.
[QUOTE=Mentlegen;51723611]Do you have proof that Turing did? Cause if so then I'd actually loosen up on him if his company gave it out for free/discounted to people. He put out a claim himself that he'd look into lowering the price to make it more affordable after the massive backlash that happened.[/QUOTE]
On their websites they say they provide financial assistance for people getting daraprim. I don't know how legitimate their claims are or how hard it is to be considered eligible but you can see it here:
[url]http://www.daraprimdirect.com[/url]
Even if he's just as bad as everyone else, I'd rather have 1000 Shkrelis than 1000 big suit CEOs.
[QUOTE=srobins;51723584]But nobody went without the medicine, Turing gave it away for free/at discount and where did he claim he was going to lower the price? Last I remember he said he would raise it again if he could.[/QUOTE]
Supposedly. All we have about it is his word.
[QUOTE=Killer900;51723496]Except he uses the money from the price hike to fund R&D and says that the CEO's of other pharma companies just keep the money for themselves while barely, if at all, use if for R&D[/QUOTE]
Supposedly. All we have about it is his word.
Check the link just above your post. He's lied before about assets under his control and how he uses them. My opinion is that people are falling for a(nother) con. He's fooled people before and continues to do so as long as he can get away with it. Assuming he were a con, wouldn't it be most convenient to distract people from his judicial proceedings by claiming a conspiracy and that he's the hero of the story?
[QUOTE=srobins;51723634]Someone linked to the congressional report and cited an initial case of a co-pay going way up and a pharmacy that were unable to afford the medication initially, but even the congressional report included Turing's patient outreach director making an active effort to help resolve it and get the drug out for cheaper. As far as I or anyone else can tell, everybody that needs/needed Daraprim has it.[/QUOTE]
When in doubt, just assume everything is fine?
[QUOTE=AaronM202;51723617]He mentioned it in a livestream conversation and, i might be wrong, but i [I]think[/I](?) it might be mentioned on their website.
Did he? Link?
If he did, he claimed recently to be giving it out free and at an insurance discount like the other dude said so that'd probably line up.[/QUOTE]
[quote]John Rother, JD, executive director of the Campaign for Sustainable Rx Pricing, a project of the National Coalition on Healthcare, pointed out in a press statement that lowering Daraprim's price by 50% would reduce the cost to $375, which is still a 2,500% increase over the original price of $13.50.[/quote]
[URL]http://www.medpagetoday.com/publichealthpolicy/publichealth/54898[/URL]
Another PR smoke and mirrors move. Seems to be working like a dream.
[QUOTE=Stopper;51723645]Even if he's just as bad as everyone else, I'd rather have 1000 Shkrelis than 1000 big suit CEOs.[/QUOTE]
But he's worse. Many people seem to support and believe the likely con man because he sells himself as the defender of the little guy and his antics amuse them.
he is their dirty laundry
[QUOTE=Mentlegen;51723400]Shkreli is scum of the earth. I'm not surprised to see that he's been booted and I'm not surprised he's compiled a list of deeds out of salt and spite.
Not saying what the companies are doing is good, but dudes a hypocrite and he can burn in hell.[/QUOTE]
They're all greedy fucks. Blonde leading the blonde.
Basically these have boiled down the formula for research to absolute profit. They have to invest billions for proper trials, so they expect trillions back in returns, and they are distinctly uninterested in permanent cures.
[QUOTE=Vlevs;51723708]Supposedly. All we have about it is his word.
Supposedly. All we have about it is his word.
Check the link just above your post. He's lied before about assets under his control and how he uses them. My opinion is that people are falling for a(nother) con. He's fooled people before and continues to do so as long as he can get away with it. Assuming he were a con, wouldn't it be most convenient to distract people from his judicial proceedings by claiming a conspiracy and that he's the hero of the story?
When in doubt, just assume everything is fine?
[URL]http://www.medpagetoday.com/publichealthpolicy/publichealth/54898[/URL]
Another PR smoke and mirrors move. Seems to be working like a dream.
But he's worse. Many people seem to support and believe the likely con man because he sells himself as the defender of the little guy and his antics amuse them.[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately for you, he's not a con. The money isn't going into his own bank account, it's going into research. It doesn't matter whether you believe Martin or the media, it's a fact a lot of money's going into research. They've got multiple big research projects going on.
Maybe I can't convince you, but at least hear the story from someone that actually needs Daraprim:
[video=youtube;HXVQOZDKlRE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXVQOZDKlRE[/video]
[editline]25th January 2017[/editline]
Many people give Martin shit for being a troll, but he only ever trolls if you do.
[QUOTE=joost1120;51723802]Many people give Martin shit for being a troll, but he only ever trolls if you do.[/QUOTE]
He acts very unprofessional and wants to be seen as a douche for some reason.
Well, he succeeded and I'm not in the least surprised that they cut ties with someone like that.
[QUOTE=paul simon;51723830]He acts very unprofessional and wants to be seen as a douche for some reason.
Well, he succeeded and I'm not in the least surprised that they cut ties with someone like that.[/QUOTE]
No, he acts in a way of "you're a douche to me? I'll be a douche back, but harder"
[QUOTE=paul simon;51723830]He acts very unprofessional and wants to be seen as a douche for some reason.
Well, he succeeded and I'm not in the least surprised that they cut ties with someone like that.[/QUOTE]
Right, he acts unprofessional if a CNN reporter shows up with questions, but hasn't researched a single thing about him or his company.
If numerous people come up to you thinking you raised the price on an aids and cancer drug (people genuinely believed this) and denied them treatment, would you continue to stay calm and tell every single one of them the entire story? Even if they refuse to listen and just continue saying they're right and you're wrong?
Nonetheless, him acting unprofessional in his free time has nothing to do with Turing Pharmaceuticals. He resigned after his arrest. The company didn't fire him.
[QUOTE=joost1120;51723802]Unfortunately for you, he's not a con. The money isn't going into his own bank account, it's going into research. It doesn't matter whether you believe Martin or the media, it's a fact a lot of money's going into research. They've got multiple big research projects going on.
Maybe I can't convince you, but at least hear the story from someone that actually needs Daraprim:
[video=youtube;HXVQOZDKlRE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXVQOZDKlRE[/video][/QUOTE]
What am I supposed to be convinced about? The guy tells he uses Daraprim and his insurance pays for it. Then Martin talks 15 minutes about what he thinks and what he's doing, and this I'm supposed to take as a fact? Why?
[B]Edit:[/B] I can't believe I put 20 minutes into this.
[editline]25th January 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=rampageturke 2;51723859]No, he acts in a way of "you're a douche to me? I'll be a douche back, but harder"[/QUOTE]
That still makes him a douche - which is unprofessional
[QUOTE=Vlevs;51723877]What am I supposed to be convinced about? The guy tells he uses Daraprim and his insurance pays for it. Then Martin talks 15 minutes about what he thinks and what he's doing, and this I'm supposed to take as a fact? Why?
[B]Edit:[/B] I can't believe I put 20 minutes into this.
[editline]25th January 2017[/editline]
That still makes him a douche - which is unprofessional[/QUOTE]
Well we might as well just replace court with a firing squad, since people can't defend themselves apparently.
[QUOTE=joost1120;51723891]Well we might as well just replace court with a firing squad, since people can't defend themselves apparently.[/QUOTE]
You do realize there are alternatives beyond "everything the man says is truth" and "guilty on all charges"?
Shkreli is a perfect example of a scapegoat that absolutely everyone fell for. He's a big, giant, obvious distraction.
Here are the facts;
- What he did will MARGINALLY increase the cost of healthcare for everyone
- He has claimed uninsured peoples will be offered the medicine free of charge
- He was targeted specifically because the media knew he was hateable; many companies, whether good or bad, do this, but all the others hide it instead of flaunting it around
- He has claimed that the increased revenue, drawn from insurance companies, will go towards making a better medicine
Anyone who's hellbent on saying he is the devil is easily goaded.
[QUOTE=joost1120;51723891]Well we might as well just replace court with a firing squad, since people can't defend themselves apparently.[/QUOTE]
It seems to me you're swallowing Shkreli's stream wholesale. What motive does the company and its investors have to buy a drug for $500m, then spend that money on a developing a new drug that might do the same thing but better, and basically defer profit to many years down the line after developing a new drug and getting it approved by the FDA only to sell it to the exact same customers that are currently buying their drug for an already outrageous price? If they wanted to develop a new drug, why not simply use their original $500m investment for that instead of having to wait to make the money back through sales of that product?
I challenge anyone who has said they hate him to name 3 other CEO's of other pharmaceutical businesses (whom are doing this on a much more enormous and damaging scale) without looking it up first.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;51723916]It seems to me you're swallowing Shkreli's stream wholesale. What motive does the company and its investors have to buy a drug for $500m, then spend that money on a developing a new drug that might do the same thing but better, and basically defer profit to many years down the line after developing a new drug and getting it approved by the FDA only to sell it to the exact same customers that are currently buying their drug for an already outrageous price? If they wanted to develop a new drug, why not simply use their original $500m investment for that instead of having to wait to make the money back through sales of that product?[/QUOTE]
I am not just flat out accepting everything he says, but I do listen to what he says. I just don't see why he would lie about the profits. If he wanted to, he could just say he increased the price for additional profit. That's what the media told everyone anyway. But he didn't. His reputation was already ruined by the media, so it wouldn't really matter.
He bought the drug for $55m. That's not even nearly enough to develop a new drug.
[QUOTE=Radical_ed;51723921]I challenge anyone who has said they hate him to name 3 other CEO's of other pharmaceutical businesses (whom are doing this on a much more enormous and damaging scale) without looking it up first.[/QUOTE]
What would that prove
[editline]25th January 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=rampageturke 2;51723859]No, he acts in a way of "you're a douche to me? I'll be a douche back, but harder"[/QUOTE]
I remember him buying up rights for some music just to piss people off or something.
He's just a narcissistic douche that wants attention.
It's unprofessional and, again, I'm not surprised in the slightest that he was disowned.
[QUOTE=paul simon;51723930]What would that prove
[editline]25th January 2017[/editline]
I remember him buying up rights for some music just to piss people off or something.
He's just a narcissistic douche that wants attention.
It's unprofessional and, again, I'm not surprised in the slightest that he was disowned.[/QUOTE]
I think he's talking about the fact that no one here knows anything about the pharmaceutical industry except for what the media reported about Martin Shkreli. The only thing controversial about Daraprim is the increase in price, not the price itself. There are a lot more expensive drugs on the market that aren't as lifesaving as Daraprim can be.
While I understand the anger at companies for increasing the costs of critical drugs, I think it's misplaced. This is what happens when there's systems put in place by the government that ensures these companies don't need to complete on a free market and thus can pick any price they want.
Bitching at, or about, companies in the long term isn't going to change a thing. At best they will do some PR thing and then be back at in a few years. Only government has the power to take long-term meaningful action against the ethically bankrupt actions drug companies are partaking in.
[QUOTE=Mentlegen;51723400]Shkreli is scum of the earth. I'm not surprised to see that he's been booted and I'm not surprised he's compiled a list of deeds out of salt and spite.
Not saying what the companies are doing is good, but dudes a hypocrite and he can burn in hell.[/QUOTE]
Just send him to a north korean gulag.
Cunts like these are why I had to quit my meds, I would literally be homeless and starving if I had to pay for my medicine. They also bribe doctors and psychiatrists all over the place.
[QUOTE=joost1120;51723929]I am not just flat out accepting everything he says, but I do listen to what he says. I just don't see why he would lie about the profits. If he wanted to, he could just say he increased the price for additional profit. That's what the media told everyone anyway. But he didn't. His reputation was already ruined by the media, so it wouldn't really matter.
He bought the drug for $55m. That's not even nearly enough to develop a new drug.[/QUOTE]
Honestly don't know where I got the $500m from, sorry, brainfart.
Anyway:
[quote=http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/02/02/465284148/-another-7-2-million-pow-a-peek-inside-turing-pharmaceuticals]
"I think it will be huge. We raised the price from $1,700 per bottle to $75,000. ... So 5,000 paying bottles at the new price is $375,000,000 - almost all of it is profit and I think we will get 3 years of that or more. Should be a very handsome investment for all of us." – Martin Shkreli email dated Aug. 27, 2015.[/quote]
Anyway, he [I]did[/I] say that he "should've raised the price even higher" to make his investors more money, and the "use all the profit for R&D" seems to be a bit of retrofit for me - maybe it's simply something he says to make people on his stream like him? Either way, I find it hard to believe that it was ever the expectation of the investors that they would see no return on their investment, but simply a new drug that wouldn't do much to increase their profits (but probably the other way around); the old price of $13.50 was already outrageous compared to the price in other countries, and would a new drug really change anything about the supply/demand nature of the drug? It has no competitors, which is why the price could be raised to $750 in the first place.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;51723982]Honestly don't know where I got the $500m from, sorry, brainfart.
Anyway:
Anyway, he [I]did[/I] say that he "should've raised the price even higher" to make his investors more money, and the "use all the profit for R&D" seems to be a bit of retrofit for me - maybe it's simply something he says to make people on his stream like him? Either way, I find it hard to believe that it was ever the expectation of the investors that they would see no return on their investment, but simply a new drug that wouldn't do much to increase their profits (but probably the other way around); the old price of $13.50 was already outrageous compared to the price in other countries, and would a new drug really change anything about the supply/demand nature of the drug? It has no competitors, which is why the price could be raised to $750 in the first place.[/QUOTE]
From what I understand the investors got their share, which was quite a lot. What was left would go to research.
Either way, even if no money would go to research, they would still be better than most pharmaceutical companies. Most companies overcharge their drugs and they don't even bother researching new drugs.
At least Turing Pharmaceuticals got some attention to Daraprim.
shkreli is the ultimate weaseler. he made thoughtless, disconnected moves and is now just restoring his pr, somehow succesfully.
he is not a "distraction by big pharma", he is just someone among them who had the gall to come out and yell "yes I did it, look at me, this is my name, this is my face, you can communicate directly to me" unlike probably 99% of sane corporate managers.
edit: it's not like other companies haven't been outed for price gouging but they're just easily forgotten when the perceived top man doesn't make it [I]personal[/I]
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.