Norway killer Breivik returns to court accusing Norwegian government of breaching the Human Rights. - Polidicks

[QUOTE=J$ Psychotic;49936841]Extradite him to ADX Florence. See how he likes the Z Block. Windowless, lightbulb-less rooms with restraints on the bed. I guarantee you he will stop bitching about his apartment in Norway after spending a month in the Black Hole. [editline]15th March 2016[/editline] Yeah, because he shot a ton of kids. Prison is about rehabilitation up to a point, but with heinous crimes, it ought to be about personal penitence and salvation through pain. Giving him a cushy setup like that is not reinforcing the idea that what he did was wrong.[/QUOTE] I find it weird that you take it as a point of pride that the US treats its prisoners like absolute dog shit.

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;49936514]Before any of you complain that this is nicer than your room, remember this: you are free to go out and have a walk in the park any time, or get a coffee, or travel over to the next town to meet a friend. He is not.[/QUOTE] The only reason I leave my room is because it's worse than that prison cell.

You do realize that he is essentially mocking Norway and it's justice system - he killed a lot of people yet they have to keep him in (semi)comfortable conditions.

[QUOTE=maniacykt;49937000]You do realize that he is essentially mocking Norway and it's justice system - he killed a lot of people yet they have to keep him in (semi)comfortable conditions.[/QUOTE] why is that something to be mocked it shows incredibly strength of will that, despite what he has done, norway is willing to actually treat him like a human being, something that every other country seems to have a problem with when it comes to terrorists [editline]15th March 2016[/editline] people think it shows childishness when people give the 'every life is precious' idea a spin it's actually the complete opposite it is incredibly immature to go to "BAD MAN DID BAD THINGS SO WE MUST TREAT HIM BADLY HURR HURR" when it comes to cases like this it shows incredible maturity on the part of the Norwegian justice system that they will TREAT HIM AS A PERSON WITH RIGHTS, despite his actions.

All people should be treated humanely. This man is probably insane, and he certainly did terrible things - but unless he is to be killed (which most civilised countries see as the ultimate breach of human rights) he should be kept in reasonable conditions.

[QUOTE=verynicelady;49937037]All people should be treated humanely. This man is probably insane, and he certainly did terrible things - but unless he is to be killed (which most civilised countries see as the ultimate breach of human rights) he should be kept in reasonable conditions.[/QUOTE] I can't seem to remember, did he actually get classified as mentally ill/insane? because then holy shit that opens up another whole can of worms in terms of solitary that I've already talked about.

[QUOTE=Crimor;49937148]I can't seem to remember, did he actually get classified as mentally ill/insane? because then holy shit that opens up another whole can of worms in terms of solitary that I've already talked about.[/QUOTE]Afaik he was found sane by the court.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;49935805]A right wing reactionary chimp complaining about his human rights being denied while inside arguably the nicest prison system in the world. He's clearly trolling. I'm all for rehabilitation but I'm not sure this guy is ever going to be mentally stable enough to be safely reintroduced to society. I think its also important to make sure he gets no media coverage, otherwise you're just giving him a platform to broadcast his poison from. -snip-[/QUOTE] Everyone should realize he was perfectly well aware of Norways laws before he went on his spree, he is trolling, well trolling isnt the best word, hes taking the Norway legal system for a ride because he knows he can and it costs him nothing and it makes a bunch of work for others. Hes a guy with all the time in the world now. So really its gonna come down to Norways media if they will ever release any info on what hes doing, because this guys gonna be pulling shit forever. That said, solitary is fucked up, and should only be used in extreme cases(guy goes on a murder spree in Prison) or is asked for or needed for protection, but shit should be like a week max. Yet I dont feel sorry for Brevik at all in the slightest. His prison room looked like a cheap American dorm room. That said, anyone against solitary should also realize their are SOME people in prisons who are just straight up broken and horrible people who cannot be around anyone else. At that point, what really is the solution?

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;49937190] His prison room looked like a cheap American dorm room. [/QUOTE] Do remember that even if you live in something even smaller than his cell, you still have the choice of human contact, which is an insanely important thing for the human psyche.

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;49936514]Before any of you complain that this is nicer than your room, remember this: you are free to go out and have a walk in the park any time, or get a coffee, or travel over to the next town to meet a friend. He is not.[/QUOTE] He also gets all his necessities for free doesnt he though? Isnt it all paid for by Norway and taxs? Or does Norway have some thing where Inmates must pay back shit? I bet 100% if our prisons were this nice in America, you would see people just committing crimes so they could get that free ride, hell that still happens with our horrible prisons. Someone like Brevik shouldnt get a room like that. Not someone who kills so many people in a spree. [editline]15th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Crimor;49937203]Do remember that even if you live in something even smaller than his cell, you still have the choice of human contact, which is an insanely important thing for the human psyche.[/QUOTE] Yeah but my room isnt as nice nor as paid for as a mass murdering racist spree killer with who really has no remorse, paid for by the country I shot up.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;49937208]Someone like Brevik shouldnt get a room like that. Not someone who kills so many people in a spree.[/QUOTE] Why? What does this accomplish rather than satisfying your spitefulness? [quote]Yeah but my room isnt as nice nor as paid for as a mass murdering racist spree killer with who really has no remorse, paid for by the country I shot up.[/QUOTE] Isn't that an argument for raising your own standard of living rather than lowering someone else's?

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;49937208]He also gets all his necessities for free doesnt he though? Isnt it all paid for by Norway and taxs? Or does Norway have some thing where Inmates must pay back shit? I bet 100% if our prisons were this nice in America, you would see people just committing crimes so they could get that free ride, hell that still happens with our horrible prisons. Someone like Brevik shouldnt get a room like that. Not someone who kills so many people in a spree. [editline]15th March 2016[/editline] Yeah but my room isnt as nice nor as paid for as a mass murdering racist spree killer with who really has no remorse, paid for by the country I shot up.[/QUOTE] Being jealous is not a valid reason to roll back on being humane.

I don't think he's insane. He's articulate, coherent and intelligent enough to plan and successfully carry out the most devastating attack since World War II. Saying "To be able to kill 80 people must mean you are insane" is not a valid argument, at all.

[QUOTE=Starpluck;49937290]I don't think he's insane. He's articulate, coherent and intelligent enough to plan and successfully the most devastating attack since World War II. Saying "To be able to kill 80 people must mean you are insane" is not a valid argument, at all.[/QUOTE] What's the definition to be considered legally insane? By itself it's awfully vague.

[QUOTE=Starpluck;49937290]I don't think he's insane. He's articulate, coherent and intelligent enough to plan and successfully the most devastating attack since World War II. Saying "To be able to kill 80 people must mean you are insane" is not a valid argument, at all.[/QUOTE] Semantics imo. Someone wants to kill innocent children coz "lefties and muslims" imo they're psychopathic at least. Just can't see how a sane person could do that.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;49937311]Semantics imo. Someone wants to kill innocent children coz "lefties and muslims" imo they're psychopathic at least. Just can't see how a sane person could do that.[/QUOTE] How many Nazi soldiers were insane? Did Germany have a huge outbreak of mental illness during the war? Is ISIS just a gigantic army of psychopaths who all happened to group together in one place by chance? Or is it possible for completely sane and rational people to commit terrible atrocities given the requisite beliefs and ideology?

[QUOTE=rndgenerator;49937270]Being jealous is not a valid reason to roll back on being humane.[/QUOTE] And pretending that a guy who went on a 70+ muderspree is somehow a decent person, and trying to be progressive on a forum about him isnt really progressive. Im not even jealous, I have a better life, but if I a psycho and I got a room like that and a free ride, I certaintly wouldn't think what I did was so bad. Saying im not being humane because I think in this case of Brevik shouldnt have such a nice room is pretty fucking retarded honestly. Same with the guy saying im just being spiteful. If you wanna get that quick high from feeling noble or progressive over Breviks living conditions then go for it. Its just a room like that doesnt really ingrain into his psychology "Wow I really fucked up" Also once again, Breviks case specifically. Oh no, he doesnt have a TV, a computer, and a walk in bathroom+shower anymore, how inhumane/spiteful, someone get the UN over here.

[QUOTE=Da Bomb76;49937338]How many Nazi soldiers were insane? Did Germany have a huge outbreak of mental illness during the war? Is ISIS just a gigantic army of psychopaths who all happened to group together in one place by chance? Or is it possible for completely sane and rational people to commit terrible atrocities given the requisite beliefs and ideology?[/QUOTE] Most soldiers did what they did due to commands and fear of not obeying them. That's self preservation. Breivik did stuff because he wanted to. The soldiers who wanted to do horrible stuff ere arguably insane but they were the minority, just holding high power roles.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;49937353]And pretending that a guy who went on a 70+ muderspree is somehow a decent person, and trying to be progressive on a forum about him isnt really progressive. Im not even jealous, I have a better life, but if I a psycho and I got a room like that and a free ride, I certaintly wouldn't think what I did was so bad. Saying im not being humane because I think in this case of Brevik shouldnt have such a nice room is pretty fucking retarded honestly. Same with the guy saying im just being spiteful. If you wanna get that quick high from feeling noble or progressive over Breviks living conditions then go for it. Its just a room like that doesnt really ingrain into his psychology "Wow I really fucked up" Also once again, Breviks case specifically. Oh no, he doesnt have a TV, a computer, and a walk in bathroom+shower anymore, how inhumane/spiteful, someone get the UN over here.[/QUOTE] It's not a "quick high," it's me actually caring about the reasons why we do things in society. What exactly is the goal here? You have a guy convicted of murdering many people. Where do we go from here? Obviously the number one priority is to prevent further harm, so he has to be locked up in some fashion. Now, what do we want to happen to this person? We should want to make him never commit such a heinous act ever again. If that means indefinite detention, then so be it. If there is some way of dealing with him that could change his mind or solve his possible problems, then that is what we need to do. What does vindictive punishment actually accomplish? It's nothing but a sick fetish-fulfillment so people on the outside can masturbate to human suffering. It solves no problem and is proven to make things much worse (once again, look at how the US deals with criminal justice and evaluate how well it works out compared to Norway). If we actually attempt to improve our society and take active steps at doing so, everybody's condition improves. [QUOTE=rndgenerator;49937354]Most soldiers did what they did due to commands and fear of not obeying them. That's self preservation. Breivik did stuff because he wanted to. The soldiers who wanted to do horrible stuff ere arguably insane but they were the minority, just holding high power roles.[/QUOTE] We know that this is simply false. There were many thousands upon thousands of Nazis (as well as their Stalinist counterparts) who believed every word of their ideology and acted accordingly, killing millions in the process.

[QUOTE=Da Bomb76;49937338]How many Nazi soldiers were insane? Did Germany have a huge outbreak of mental illness during the war? Is ISIS just a gigantic army of psychopaths who all happened to group together in one place by chance? Or is it possible for completely sane and rational people to commit terrible atrocities given the requisite beliefs and ideology?[/QUOTE] You're right Me calling it insanity is some naive attempt to explain why people might do terrible things, akin to when people say hitler only had 1 testicle or say he was bla bla bla. Just a human being doing something we consider terrible for reasons we can't explain.

[QUOTE=rndgenerator;49937292]What's the definition to be considered legally insane? By itself it's awfully vague.[/QUOTE] To be considered legally insane, it should be proven that the subject cannot distinguish fantasy from reality, cannot conduct their affairs due to psychosis, or exhibits uncontrollable impulsive behavior. The American model penal code also states that a defendant is not considered responsible for their crime if, as a result of mental illness or deficiency of any nature, are unable to possess the capacity to understand the criminality of their conduct, or to conform their conduct to the requirements of the law. But, for the insanity plea to work, the defendant has to prove that at the time of committing the crime they were unable to understand that their actions were criminal and wrong.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;49936195]Torture and punishment don't work[/QUOTE] I don't think that many American prisons are geared towards being rehabilitation centres, instead they are more of a deterrent to prevent people committing crimes initially.

[QUOTE=maaatts;49937430]I don't think that many American prisons are geared towards being rehabilitation centres, instead they are more of a deterrent to prevent people committing crimes initially.[/QUOTE] This experiment has failed miserably then, considering America's crime and incarceration rate. And by this logic, the ancient and medieval world should have had the lowest crime rate since they had the most draconian punishments.

American prisons do not deter, instead if you get in one, they condition you to be badder, stronger and tougher. Hence why reoffending rates are so high. If you survive American prison, you usually come out a lot stronger in mind and body but not in morals or skills.

[QUOTE=Satane;49937063]That's a lot of ways to kill yourself[/QUOTE] Yet not a reason to.

[QUOTE=Jim Morrison;49935895]He has a point. Solitary confinement [I]is[/I] torture.[/QUOTE] No he doesn't, and no it's not. Don't murder 77 people, don't seriously injure 319 other people... and you won't have to be segregated from the rest of the populace and confined away from everyone for security purposes. This isn't a difficult social contract to understand lol. Fuck him. He's not going to get better, and even if he did, why should he be given his life back after what he did? He stole the lives of 77 other people when he murdered them in cold blood, and he damaged the lives of 319 others by deliberately harming them. There comes a point where a line has to be drawn, where society says, "You cannot be forgiven for what you did, and you should not be forgiven. You've caused too much damage and done too many awful things to ever be accepted as a normal human being again, and you don't deserve to have your life and freedom returned to you because of the callousness with which you destroyed the lives of other innocent people."

[QUOTE=Da Bomb76;49937388]It's not a "quick high," it's me actually caring about the reasons why we do things in society. What exactly is the goal here? You have a guy convicted of murdering many people. Where do we go from here? Obviously the number one priority is to prevent further harm, so he has to be locked up in some fashion. Now, what do we want to happen to this person? We should want to make him never commit such a heinous act ever again. If that means indefinite detention, then so be it. If there is some way of dealing with him that could change his mind or solve his possible problems, then that is what we need to do. What does vindictive punishment actually accomplish? It's nothing but a sick fetish-fulfillment so people on the outside can masturbate to human suffering. It solves no problem and is proven to make things much worse (once again, look at how the US deals with criminal justice and evaluate how well it works out compared to Norway). If we actually attempt to improve our society and take active steps at doing so, everybody's condition improves. We know that this is simply false. There were many thousands upon thousands of Nazis (as well as their Stalinist counterparts) who believed every word of their ideology and acted accordingly, killing millions in the process.[/QUOTE] If its not a quick high then what do you do other than talk about it and give 0 actual arguments for your humanitarian cause. [QUOTE] It's nothing but a sick fetish-fulfillment so people on the outside can masturbate to human suffering.[/QUOTE] Not really, its just I dont think a mass murdering spree killer who killed children deserves to have access to a TV in his room, a nice walk in bathroom WITH a door, and access to a computer. Jump that gun harder please. [QUOTE] It solves no problem and is proven to make things much worse (once again, look at how the US deals with criminal justice and evaluate how well it works out compared to Norway).[/QUOTE] Norway is also smaller than one of our 50 states, in a completely different country, where driving 30 minutes can take you through 3 drastically different places and cultures all in 1 state alone x50 vs Norway. Yes our prison system is bad, that doesnt mean Norways would work in America at all. Its like in your battle for being progressive and noble you completely forget the fact that some people exist that would come into your house, tie your family up in front you, rape them, shoot them, then kill you, and never give a fuck forever. Or spree kill 70+ and heil Hitler in court. But lets give those people TVs and nice bathrooms and computers in Prison because WE are fucking sick-fetish fulfilling monsters who want to masturbate to their suffering. If you give a fuck so much go work in American prisons and make a difference.

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;49936514]Before any of you complain that this is nicer than your room, remember this: you are free to go out and have a walk in the park any time, or get a coffee, or travel over to the next town to meet a friend. He is not.[/QUOTE] Maybe he should of thought of that before slaughtering 77 and injuring 319 people for no apparent reason other than the fact that he is a psychotic killer following racist ideologies. At this point, receiving that kind of room might as well be a gift. There are hard working people that don't get that kind of comfort, even if they get the ability to ''get a coffee'' or ''have a walk in the park'' at any time. He doesn't even need social contact, because he has shown how horribly dangerous he is to society. The only people he would socialize with would be other neo nazis, and if you think that allowing him to interact with other menaces of society, you obviously don't realize how it would worsen things.

[QUOTE=Govna;49937479]No he doesn't, and no it's not. Don't murder 77 people, don't seriously injure 319 other people... and you won't have to be segregated from the rest of the populace and confined away from everyone for security purposes. This isn't a difficult social contract to understand lol. Fuck him. He's not going to get better, and even if he did, why should he be given his life back after what he did? He stole the lives of 77 other people when he murdered them in cold blood, and he damaged the lives of 319 others by deliberately harming them. There comes a point where a line has to be drawn, where society says, "You cannot be forgiven for what you did, and you should not be forgiven. You've caused too much damage and done too many awful things to ever be accepted as a normal human being again, and you don't deserve to have your life and freedom returned to you because of the callousness with which you destroyed the lives of other innocent people."[/QUOTE] then kill him if you're saying he doesn't deserve life or freedom, or to be accepted as a normal human being, then kill him don't try and leave your hands clean, because if you're depriving him of identity as a human, his right to life, then kill him and be done with it - if you honestly believe those things, then you should be fine with just killing him [editline]15th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=SpaceDiggle;49937662]Maybe he should of thought of that before slaughtering 77 and injuring 319 people for no apparent reason other than the fact that he is a psychotic killer following racist ideologies. At this point, receiving that kind of room might as well be a gift. There are hard working people that don't get that kind of comfort, even if they get the ability to ''get a coffee'' or ''have a walk in the park'' at any time. [/QUOTE] cool let's ask everyone in this thread, assuming they're a hard working person (whatever that means) how do you feel about trading in freedom for the rest of your life for a bed, a TV and an en-suite - oh also you can walk in a yard and exercise in another room any takers?

[QUOTE=rndgenerator;49937457]American prisons do not deter, instead if you get in one, they condition you to be badder, stronger and tougher. Hence why reoffending rates are so high. If you survive American prison, you usually come out a lot stronger in mind and body but not in morals or skills.[/QUOTE] and something else to consider is that prison gets less scary the more people have been there and the more it's pushed like a social cure-all - it starts to seem less like a result of your actions and more like something that could just happen out of the blue to anyone you know, like a brain aneurysm. why even bother straightening up if so much as petty drug-dealing in a suburb is handled like it's on par with armed rape and your every action's being gone through with a fine-tooth comb?