Norway killer Breivik returns to court accusing Norwegian government of breaching the Human Rights. - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49936155]revenge is an incredibly important part of justice [/QUOTE] No, not really

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49937700]then kill him if you're saying he doesn't deserve life or freedom, or to be accepted as a normal human being, then kill him don't try and leave your hands clean, because if you're depriving him of identity as a human, his right to life, then kill him and be done with it - if you honestly believe those things, then you should be fine with just killing him [editline]15th March 2016[/editline] cool let's ask everyone in this thread, assuming they're a hard working person (whatever that means) how do you feel about trading in freedom for the rest of your life for a bed, a TV and an en-suite - oh also you can walk in a yard and exercise in another room any takers?[/QUOTE] No, because im not gonna kill people to get it lol.

[QUOTE=phygon;49937757]No, not really[/QUOTE] yeah, 'fraid it is actually. [editline]15th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=HoodedSniper;49937783]No, because im not gonna kill people to get it lol.[/QUOTE] what if you didn't have to kill anyone what if i gave it to you free of charge

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49937700]then kill him if you're saying he doesn't deserve life or freedom, or to be accepted as a normal human being, then kill him don't try and leave your hands clean, because if you're depriving him of identity as a human, his right to life, then kill him and be done with it - if you honestly believe those things, then you should be fine with just killing him [editline]15th March 2016[/editline] cool let's ask everyone in this thread, assuming they're a hard working person (whatever that means) how do you feel about trading in freedom for the rest of your life for a bed, a TV and an en-suite - oh also you can walk in a yard and exercise in another room any takers?[/QUOTE] Nice little hypothesis but the thing is, nobody in this thread murdered over 70 persons for no reasons whatsoever. At that point, you're not trading your freedom away for a bed and a TV, you're getting a punishment for having destroyed the lives of so many people in mere hours. Even then, considering how other countries deal with mass murderers, everything he got out of it ( and keeps getting ) is pretty much a gift.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49937700]then kill him if you're saying he doesn't deserve life or freedom, or to be accepted as a normal human being, then kill him don't try and leave your hands clean, because if you're depriving him of identity as a human, his right to life, then kill him and be done with it - if you honestly believe those things, then you should be fine with just killing him[/QUOTE] Yeah, actually, I would be just fine with killing him and having it be over and done with forever. He killed 77 people and injured another 319. That is not normal behavior for a person, and it's clear he will never be a normal person (you should seriously read what he's written and claimed before about himself and the future of Norway/Scandinavia sometime; it's schizophrenic). My hands would be perfectly clean and my conscience perfectly clear if it were done.

Human Rights are for humans though, which Breivik has proven that he clearly isn't.

[QUOTE=riki2cool;49937899]Human Rights are for humans though, which Breivik has proven that he clearly isn't.[/QUOTE] didn't notice he changed into a space alien or something, pretty subtle. is he a reptilian wearing human skin?

[QUOTE=Zezibesh;49937911]didn't notice he changed into a space alien or something, pretty subtle. is he a reptilian wearing human skin?[/QUOTE] nah mate, more like a dog

[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;49936949]is it time for the "I'm so much better than everyone because I regard all human life as absolutely precious" shit[/QUOTE] no, but if you wouldn't attempt to save Breivik's life when he's choking on something, then you couldn't generally obligate anyone to ever attempt to save anyone, except only under special circumstances like [DEL]spouses, common carrier crews, employers/employees[/DEL] those who have never been convicted of a serious enough crime.

[QUOTE=SpaceDiggle;49937863]Nice little hypothesis but the thing is, nobody in this thread murdered over 70 persons for no reasons whatsoever. At that point, you're not trading your freedom away for a bed and a TV, you're getting a punishment for having destroyed the lives of so many people in mere hours. Even then, considering how other countries deal with mass murderers, everything he got out of it ( and keeps getting ) is pretty much a gift.[/QUOTE] ok so your opinion it's a gift the point i was making is that, unsurprisingly, people value agency over a fucking bed and tv nobody gives a shit about what other countries do, it's been hammered home time and again that other countries are actually pretty fucking terrible in terms of criminal justice so your argument is essentially "well if you lived in some third world country then the punishment for your crime would be stoning, so anything above that is a gift" [editline]15th March 2016[/editline] murderers and terrorists in the UK should count themselves lucky, because if they were in a third world country they'd be executed, so what they're getting is a gift [editline]15th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Govna;49937898]Yeah, actually, I would be just fine with killing him and having it be over and done with forever. He killed 77 people and injured another 319. That is not normal behavior for a person, and it's clear he will never be a normal person (you should seriously read what he's written and claimed before about himself and the future of Norway/Scandinavia sometime; it's schizophrenic). My hands would be perfectly clean and my conscience perfectly clear if it were done.[/QUOTE] i'm glad that your conscience would be clear after you murdered another human being you are definitely fit to pass judgement on others

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49938069]i'm glad that your conscience would be clear after you murdered another human being you are definitely fit to pass judgement on others[/QUOTE] Well again, it's pretty fucking simple: this person killed 77 people, in cold blood with no remorse, and injured an additional 319. He did it methodically, calculated what to do, and, again, did it coldly with no remorse. This is a dangerous human being who has irreparably taken the lives of dozens of people, permanently impacted the lives of hundreds of others, and who will never recover and has shown absolutely no sorrow over what he did. It's murder when you kill an innocent person, which is what he did to 77 people. It's not murder when you kill a person that's guilty of a grievous crime (or in his case, multiple crimes) or a person that's dangerous; that's called sensibility. The social contract principle here is pretty fucking simple: don't start trouble, there won't be trouble. It's easy to act like a high-minded idealist when something doesn't affect you; it's another thing entirely to actually have to live with it and deal with it. The irony here being I've actually got more empathy towards human beings and especially the victims (both the dead and the injured) of Breivik than you do. So having said all this, yes actually, I am definitely fit to pass judgement on others. I'm not a high-horse idealist lashing out at others with my delusions of moral superiority.

[QUOTE=Govna;49938140]Well again, it's pretty fucking simple: this person killed 77 people, in cold blood with no remorse, and injured an additional 319. He did it methodically, calculated what to do, and, again, did it coldly with no remorse. This is a dangerous human being who has irreparably taken the lives of dozens of people, permanently impacted the lives of hundreds of others, and who will never recover and has shown absolutely no sorrow over what he did. It's murder when you kill an innocent person, which is what he did to 77 people. It's not murder when you kill a person that's guilty of a grievous crime (or in his case, multiple crimes) or a person that's dangerous; that's called sensibility. It's easy to act like a high-minded idealist when something doesn't affect you; it's another thing entirely to actually have to live with it and deal with it. The irony here being I've actually got more empathy towards human beings and especially the victims (both the dead and the injured) of Breivik than you do. So having said all this, yes actually, I am definitely fit to pass judgement on others. I'm not a high-horse idealist lashing out at others with my delusions of moral superiority.[/QUOTE] no, it's extremely easy to be a high-minded idealist when you can see that there is literally nothing to gain by killing a deranged man no, you would literally be a murderer because your opinion of a guy has literally nothing to do with whether or not you can [I]murder them[/I] no, it's not called sensibility, because execution is prohibited by the EU law on human rights - might fly elsewhere, but not in the EU i'm extremely glad that your position isn't shared by the legal system of norway, nor by the EU law on human rights

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49937784]yeah, 'fraid it is actually. [editline]15th March 2016[/editline] what if you didn't have to kill anyone what if i gave it to you free of charge[/QUOTE] No, because once again, the point of this is that someone got a room like that for killing over 70 people in cold pre-meditated blood.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;49938185]No, because once again, the point of this is that someone got a room like that for killing over 70 people in cold pre-meditated blood.[/QUOTE] stacking more adjectives in front of blood doesn't make your argument any more convincing judging by scandanavian crime statistics, it looks like treating people with respect and giving them a reasonable standard of living while incarcerating them actually improves your crime-rates and standard of living, along with rates of reintegration so while i'm sure you'd be very happy with giving him a shitty room, it turns out that the 'feel good' high you might get from them living in poor conditions is actually pretty terrible in the long-run!

[QUOTE=Govna;49938140]I'm not a high-horse idealist lashing out at others with my delusions of moral superiority.[/QUOTE] let's count the ways in which you are DEFINITELY NOT pretending to be morally superior [QUOTE=Govna;49938140]The irony here being I've actually got more empathy towards human beings and especially the victims (both the dead and the injured) of Breivik than you do.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Govna;49938140]It's not murder when you kill a person that's guilty of a grievous crime (or in his case, multiple crimes) or a person that's dangerous; that's called sensibility.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Govna;49938140]It's easy to act like a high-minded idealist when something doesn't affect you[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Govna;49938140]So having said all this, yes actually, I am definitely fit to pass judgement on others.[/QUOTE] [editline]15th March[/editline] this is a debate that intrinsically requires moral superiority. it's a fucking criminal sentence! any stance on it literally could not be more judgmental! you're high-horsing, i'm high-horsing, the whole justice system only exists because of high-horsing

Where were you when it was revealed that Breivik was actually an anthropomorphic talking banana wearing human skin?

[QUOTE=Govna;49938140]Well again, it's pretty fucking simple: this person killed 77 people, in cold blood with no remorse, and injured an additional 319. He did it methodically, calculated what to do, and, again, did it coldly with no remorse. This is a dangerous human being who has irreparably taken the lives of dozens of people, permanently impacted the lives of hundreds of others, and who will never recover and has shown absolutely no sorrow over what he did. It's murder when you kill an innocent person, which is what he did to 77 people. It's not murder when you kill a person that's guilty of a grievous crime (or in his case, multiple crimes) or a person that's dangerous; that's called sensibility. The social contract principle here is pretty fucking simple: don't start trouble, there won't be trouble. It's easy to act like a high-minded idealist when something doesn't affect you; it's another thing entirely to actually have to live with it and deal with it. The irony here being I've actually got more empathy towards human beings and especially the victims (both the dead and the injured) of Breivik than you do. So having said all this, yes actually, I am definitely fit to pass judgement on others. I'm not a high-horse idealist lashing out at others with my delusions of moral superiority.[/QUOTE] The idealist in me wants to give Breivik a life in max security prison, with opportunities to work, receive benefits for it, as well as social interaction in [I]highly controlled[/I] environments, never to be released. And the realist in me wants to give him a swift and merciful death, but only after reviewing and finding his final plea for life in prison dissatisfactory.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49938196]stacking more adjectives in front of blood doesn't make your argument any more convincing judging by scandanavian crime statistics, it looks like treating people with respect and giving them a reasonable standard of living while incarcerating them actually improves your crime-rates and standard of living, along with rates of reintegration so while i'm sure you'd be very happy with giving him a shitty room, it turns out that the 'feel good' high you might get from them living in poor conditions is actually pretty terrible in the long-run![/QUOTE] How many criminals have done something as bad as Brevik in the past 50 years in scadanavian. How common is crime like? Id love to see crime statistics in Norway if it was the size and diversity of America. Wait we cant because it doesnt exist. Its naive to think everyone is savable and not just fucked, sorry Brevik is one of those, but I guess im speaking about everyone in all instances ever. How is taking away his fucking TV, Computer, PS2, Radio, and making his bathroom in his room somehow "shitty" considering everything else. Dude went on a murder spree then a fucking hunger strike if he didnt get his PS. You want this guy fucking pampered because it makes you feel better. Or do you wanna come out and just say you have a soft spot for mass murderers like Brevik and the best solution is a college dorm room for people like Brevik. Give them good stuff and they turn good! "You have just raped a whole family, executed them all in the back of the head with a pistol, and left their dog hung by the neck outside on a tree, 21 years, a PS3, a Computer, TV, and private Bathroom for you!, all expenses paid!" Imagine how the victims must feel when Brevik was crying for his PS3 and got national attention. Bravo.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;49938346]How common is crime like?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Da Bomb76;49936373] [img]http://www.apa.org/Images/2014-10-incarceration-chart2_tcm7-176264.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] [QUOTE=HoodedSniper;49938346] Bravo.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;49938346]How many criminals have done something as bad as Brevik in the past 50 years in scadanavian. How common is crime like? Id love to see crime statistics in Norway if it was the size and diversity of America. Wait we cant because it doesnt exist. Its naive to think everyone is savable and not just fucked, sorry Brevik is one of those, but I guess im speaking about everyone in all instances ever. How is taking away his fucking TV, Computer, PS2, Radio, and making his bathroom in his room somehow "shitty" considering everything else. Dude went on a murder spree then a fucking hunger strike if he didnt get his PS. You want this guy fucking pampered because it makes you feel better. Or do you wanna come out and just say you have a soft spot for mass murderers like Brevik and the best solution is a college dorm room for people like Brevik. Give them good stuff and they turn good! "You have just raped a whole family, executed them all in the back of the head with a pistol, and left their dog hung by the neck outside on a tree, 21 years, a PS3, a Computer, TV, and private Bathroom for you!, all expenses paid!" Imagine how the victims must feel when Brevik was crying for his PS3 and got national attention. Bravo.[/QUOTE] "Give them good stuff and they turn good!" lol you're desperately trying to parody something that [I]studies show actually works[/I] are you incapable of understanding that just because i want him to be treated like a human, and treated in line with the norwegian legal system, doesn't mean i actually like him WAAH YOU WANT HIM PAMPERED BECAUSE YOU SECRETLY LIKE HIM come on now have you considered that maybe i want him to have a reasonable standard of living because it's shown to actually work [editline]15th March 2016[/editline] also "no that wouldn't work in america because we're different" fucking amazing argument 10/10 logic [I]except rehabilitation programs exist in america[/I]

It's frustrating that the media classes him as a killer and not a terrorist. Or it only applies to brown people?

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;49937598]If its not a quick high then what do you do other than talk about it and give 0 actual arguments for your humanitarian cause. Not really, its just I dont think a mass murdering spree killer who killed children deserves to have access to a TV in his room, a nice walk in bathroom WITH a door, and access to a computer. Jump that gun harder please.[/QUOTE] You didn't answer a single thing here, you just re-asserted your non points.

[QUOTE=Crimor;49938417][/QUOTE] That didnt answer anything. I asked how common is CRIME like *this* this as in murder sprees. How common has Breviks type of crimes happened in those scandanvian places in the past 50 years? Context REALLY matters.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;49938492]That didnt answer anything. I asked how common is CRIME like *this* this as in murder sprees. How common has Breviks type of crimes happened in those scandanvian places in the past 50 years? Context REALLY matters.[/QUOTE] Da Bomb asked you to state what you think we should do with criminals, and why your solutions would help. You just reposted what you said before.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49938420]"Give them good stuff and they turn good!" lol you're desperately trying to parody something that [I]studies show actually works[/I] are you incapable of understanding that just because i want him to be treated like a human, and treated in line with the norwegian legal system, doesn't mean i actually like him WAAH YOU WANT HIM PAMPERED BECAUSE YOU SECRETLY LIKE HIM come on now have you considered that maybe i want him to have a reasonable standard of living because it's shown to actually work [editline]15th March 2016[/editline] also "no that wouldn't work in america because we're different" fucking amazing argument 10/10 logic [I]except rehabilitation programs exist in america[/I][/QUOTE] Its shown its worked so far. Is Brevik like other criminals? I asked this. Also the USA does have rehabilitation programs but god damn, just because "X has X" doesnt mean "X is Good" Yeah our prison system sucks, a lot, its one of the worst actually in 1st world countries id say, and I mean the entire system, not just prisons. Just because USA sucks, doesnt mean I think someone like Brevik should have a TV, a PS2, a private bathroom, and a computer. I dont know why you think taking away things from a mass murderer like that is so horrible, fucking children lose those things when they get grounded except the bathroom part. He has a reasonable living of standard vs a lot of people if you remove those few things. Why does he need a TV Why does he need a computer Why does he need a private walk in bathroom. Why does he need a playstation and video games. IN HIS ROOM Why does he deserve luxuries that even free poor citizens in your own country who never killed anyone. It shows it works in its own situation, it doesnt show it works or can work everywhere. Its working in TINY ass places that arent very diverse. Maybe if the USA was the size of Texas and thats it we could have a better system like Norway. [editline]15th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Pantz Master;49938538]Da Bomb asked you to state what you think we should do with criminals, and why your solutions would help. You just reposted what you said before.[/QUOTE] Dude ive not been here saying what is best or would help. Ive literally only been saying that [B]BREVIK[/B] does not deserve a PS/TV/Computer/Private Bathroom. Thats maybe why I reposted what I said before because its all ive been saying. Dont give them such luxuries like that for people as bad as Brevik. I never pretended I know the best for every country and every prison system.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;49938547]Its shown its worked so far. [/quote] No, it hasn't. Look at the graph that was posted on page 3. [quote] Is Brevik like other criminals? I asked this.[/quote] No he isn't. I fail to see why this answers anything though. Why are you assuming we should do something different with him just because he isn't like other criminals? This is just another assumption you made that doesn't make sense. [quote]Also the USA does have rehabilitation programs but god damn, just because "X has X" doesnt mean "X is Good" [/quote] Fair enough. The differences between Norway and the US demographically are huge. This is the only point you brought up that we can actually discuss. The rest of what you said is based on unsupported assumptions and assertions. [quote]Yeah our prison system sucks, a lot, its one of the worst actually in 1st world countries id say, and I mean the entire system, not just prisons. Just because USA sucks, doesnt mean I think someone like Brevik should have a TV, a PS2, a private bathroom, and a computer. I dont know why you think taking away things from a mass murderer like that is so horrible, fucking children lose those things when they get grounded except the bathroom part. He has a reasonable living of standard vs a lot of people if you remove those few things. Why does he need a TV Why does he need a computer Why does he need a private walk in bathroom. Why does he need a playstation and video games. Why does he deserve luxuries that even free poor citizens in your own country who never killed anyone. It shows it works in its own situation, it doesnt show it works or can work everywhere. Its working in TINY ass places that arent very diverse. Maybe if the USA was the size of Texas and thats it we could have a better system like Norway.[/QUOTE] Answer this, what does making Breivik's life miserable accomplish?

[QUOTE=Pantz Master;49938591]No he isn't. I fail to see why this answers anything though. Why are you assuming we should do something different with him just because he isn't like other criminals? This is just another assumption you made that doesn't make sense.[/QUOTE] Norway does things differently for people who aren't like typical criminals, like Breivik. That line has already been drawn in the sand.

[QUOTE=Pantz Master;49938591]No, it hasn't. Look at the graph that was posted on page 3. No he isn't. I fail to see why this answers anything though. Why are you assuming we should do something different with him just because he isn't like other criminals? This is just another assumption you made that doesn't make sense. Fair enough. The differences between Norway and the US demographically are huge. This is the only point you brought up that we can actually discuss. The rest of what you said is based on unsupported assumptions and assertions. Answer this, what does making Breivik's life miserable accomplish?[/QUOTE] Wait, why shouldnt we do something different to criminals who commit worse acts than others? I think killing 1 person in a spur of the moment murder, vs pre-meditated spree killing of 70+ are two WILDLY different people and personalities. How is taking away his fucking TV/PC/PS2 somehow "miserable" in your head? Holy shit dude, why not send this guy a fucking cake a this point saying "Hang in their champ! I know its rough!" Im asking for LUXURIES taking out of his room at the very fucking least. That shit is WORSE for someone like him because it enables his bullshit. He went on a hunger strike or said he would for a PS3. And somehow I am making HIS life miserable for him not having access to it in his room? You literally want this mass murderer to have luxuries even poor people cant afford who are good. And he gets them all for free and probably paid for a bit by taxes of those very same citizens, unless Norway doesnt use taxes for funding their prisons. You act like I want him in a dark concrete room with a slab matteress. I want his fucking TV and PS2 out of that shit. You misread me wrong, I said It shown its worked SO FAR with these smaller countries like Norway/Sweden.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;49938346]How many criminals have done something as bad as Brevik in the past 50 years in scadanavian. How common is crime like? Id love to see crime statistics in Norway if it was the size and diversity of America. Wait we cant because it doesnt exist. Its naive to think everyone is savable and not just fucked, sorry Brevik is one of those, but I guess im speaking about everyone in all instances ever. [B]How is taking away his fucking TV, Computer, PS2, Radio, and making his bathroom in his room somehow "shitty" considering everything else. Dude went on a murder spree then a fucking hunger strike if he didnt get his PS.[/B] You want this guy fucking pampered because it makes you feel better. Or do you wanna come out and just say you have a soft spot for mass murderers like Brevik and the best solution is a college dorm room for people like Brevik. Give them good stuff and they turn good! "You have just raped a whole family, executed them all in the back of the head with a pistol, and left their dog hung by the neck outside on a tree, 21 years, a PS3, a Computer, TV, and private Bathroom for you!, all expenses paid!" Imagine how the victims must feel when Brevik was crying for his PS3 and got national attention. Bravo.[/QUOTE] What's the point of taking away those things? I don't get up in the morning and think "Oh yeah I feel great because Breivik is in the oubliette!" - I literally couldn't care less about the guy. He shouldn't be treated any different from another prisoner, because that's not how justice should work.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;49938797]What's the point of taking away those things? I don't get up in the morning and think "Oh yeah I feel great because Breivik is in the oubliette!" - I literally couldn't care less about the guy. He shouldn't be treated any different from another prisoner, because that's not how justice should work.[/QUOTE] Because shit like that doesnt really say "You fucked up dude" its more "Heres your prize!" If that happened in America people would be committing crimes more than they already do just to get into jail. Yes, America has an issue with criminals straight up committing crimes just so they can go to jail and get some free treatment. Especially in winters. Now give them TVs, a nice room(much nicer than anything someone homeless would have) A computer, and a Playstation and games, heated/AC/ free food cooked for you, and able to cook your own if you want, all supplied for you. Nah dude I totally dont see anyone taking advantage of that, nor do I see it costing a fuck load of money from people who will generally never use it while those with no money get access to it all. I want this fucking guys TV/PS2/Computer gone and his shitter in his room, apparently thats inhumane or some travesty. People here are pretty deluded sometimes in surprising ways. [QUOTE]. He shouldn't be treated any different from another prisoner, because that's not how justice should work.[/QUOTE] So he should be treated the same as a guy who stole some stuff, the same as a child murderer/raper, and himself, a spree killer? They all deserve the same care, from the same places, doesnt matter how drastically different they are in personality or how they act out? Lets make them roommates dude, if some prisoners can have roommates, then why arent the child killers, rapists, and the guy who forgot to pay his taxes arent in the same room?