why not turn it into a holocaust museum or something?
[QUOTE=RobL;51217095]it belongs in a museum[/QUOTE]
fuck
[QUOTE=phaedon;51216800][...]
Yeah, bad Germany, showing remorse for WW2 and teaching about the actual collective responsibility of previous generations.[/QUOTE]
I think at this point it's more of a 'while we don't necessarily see ourselves as personally responsible for what previous generations did, it's still very much our duty to remember those atrocities to make sure these horrors never happen again, and to support the victims where possible'. Note that that last part is on a collective-to-individuals basis though.
[editline]17th October 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Govna;51216891][url=http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-17562615]They did the same thing to his mother and father's grave in Leonding back in 2012[/url]. They removed the headstone, and their plot will be used for a new burial-- although they haven't even been exhumed yet as far as anybody knows.
Germany and Austria go overboard when it comes to dealing with stuff involving the Nazis, and this way they're going about handling Hitler's birthplace is yet another example.[/QUOTE]
[I]Afaik[/I], Germany doesn't remove headstones or graves outside the normal proceedings in that regard.
The places where that causes problems tend to deal with it creatively, for example by repurposing neo-nazi rallies into unintentionally charitable events.
[QUOTE=Tamschi;51217275]I think at this point it's more of a 'while we don't necessarily see ourselves as personally responsible for what previous generations did, it's still very much our duty to remember those atrocities to make sure these horrors never happen again, and to support the victims where possible'. Note that that last part is on a collective-to-individuals basis though.[/QUOTE]
And that's how you ought to deal with history.
You can't assume responsibility for stuff your ancestors did, but you have to recognize the existence of responsibility, study history, and actually apply its lessons. You ought to endorse good things your ancestors did, and condemn the bad.
You can't just dismiss it either. Whatever actions previous generations took directly or indirectly still affect you, both by influencing socioeconomic conditions and through inherited traditions and values.
[QUOTE=adamsz;51217093]I'm going to play devil's advocate for a moment.
Isn't demolishing a building because it could be associated with some intolerant people make us intolerant as well?
This decision is "monumentally" stupid.[/QUOTE]
Basically this.
Also, how do they expect to demolish a building if the owner refuses to sell?
I could think of a few very good reasons why this is a dumb idea but it's so fucking dumb regardless.
Wow, they're no better [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhas_of_Bamiyan]than the Taliban and previous groups blowing up those giant Buddha's they had in Afghanistan.[/url]
Way to show respect for history.
[QUOTE=RobL;51217095]it belongs in a museum[/QUOTE]
we must build a museum around the building
Basically everything has a history
doesnt mean it matters
his parents literally just stayed there to give birth to him, and now it's not really used.
I bet the nazis will still come there, just to spite the authorities
-eh, on second thought, i dont want to do this-
[QUOTE=Marzipas;51216796]man i disagree with this completely, bulldozing history is just stupid, regardless of whatever connotations it might hold. at the end of the day, whatever the build in its place will still be associated with hitler.[/QUOTE]
lets be fair. There are only so many buildings you can keep as history. Hitlers lair? Ok fair history. Birthplace? Whats even the point? Should we save ANYTHING the man touched because "Its history"?
There's a point where you save so many things related to hitler that you basically worship the man in a way. you can still take the building down and you know, teach people of the 8 million jews he was connected to killing
[QUOTE=phaedon;51217317]And that's how you ought to deal with history.
You can't assume responsibility for stuff your ancestors did, but you have to recognize the existence of responsibility, study history, and actually apply its lessons. You ought to endorse good things your ancestors did, and condemn the bad.
You can't just dismiss it either. Whatever actions previous generations took directly or indirectly still affect you, both by influencing socioeconomic conditions and through inherited traditions and values.[/QUOTE]
It should be noted that it's not even close to perfect here either though.
It took a judge moving proceedings to Israel by himself to revolutionise the forced-ghetto-labour pension proceedings, and [URL="https://yated.com/german-hero-trashed-county/"]that only happened fairly recently and against lots of opposition[/URL][URL="https://archive.is/bBJao"].[/URL] (This is the first result that came up in English on Google News, but it seems both accurate and thorough.)
[QUOTE=Cureless;51217426]Wow, they're no better [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhas_of_Bamiyan]than the Taliban and previous groups blowing up those giant Buddha's they had in Afghanistan.[/url]
Way to show respect for history.[/QUOTE]
This is such a genuinely asinine comparison.
Buddha and Hitler are literally opposites. Are we comparing buddha statues to a building that just coincidentally happened to be the birthplace of someone? Buddha who happened to be extremely known as the most peaceful man alive, and Hitler, the opposite? Blowing statues up out of genuine spite VS bulldozing a building because you gotta. What the fuck is the point?
[QUOTE=Cureless;51217426]Wow, they're no better [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhas_of_Bamiyan]than the Taliban and previous groups blowing up those giant Buddha's they had in Afghanistan.[/url][/QUOTE]
Exclusive footage of Taliban destroying ancient Hindu symbol:
[img]http://i.makeagif.com/media/5-08-2015/6t3Y8b.gif[/img]
Look, I am generally against the destruction of even slightly historically significant buildings, but the cultural and historical relevance of the Buddhas of Bamiyan is of a completely different scale.
[QUOTE=Tamschi;51217511]It should be noted that it's not even close to perfect here either though.
It took a judge moving proceedings to Israel by himself to revolutionise the forced-ghetto-labour pension proceedings, and [URL="https://yated.com/german-hero-trashed-county/"]that only happened fairly recently and against lots of opposition[/URL][URL="https://archive.is/bBJao"].[/URL] (This is the first result that came up in English on Google News, but it seems both accurate and thorough.)[/QUOTE]
Ι am more talking in general terms. The denazification process, both from the side of the Allies and Germany was far from thorough or perfect.
[QUOTE=J!NX;51217497]lets be fair. There are only so many buildings you can keep as history. Hitlers lair? Ok fair history. Birthplace? Whats even the point? Should we save ANYTHING the man touched because "Its history"?
There's a point where you save so many things related to hitler that you basically worship the man in a way. you can still take the building down and you know, teach people of the 8 million jews he was connected to killing[/QUOTE]
i was in a similar vein of thought before i clicked the thread, but the point is, it still has historical value regardless of who was born there. i think if people only wanted to keep it standing because of its connection to hitler, you'd have a point, but it's a historical building regardless (because it's p old)
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;51217518]i was in a similar vein of thought before i clicked the thread, but the point is, it still has historical value regardless of who was born there. i think if people only wanted to keep it standing because of its connection to hitler, you'd have a point, but it's a historical building regardless (because it's p old)[/QUOTE]
It's better if they recreated anything Hitler related and put it in a room, first. Delay the bulldozing, take any Hitler related anything and put it in a museum, then recreate his room(s). This way you can teach people about him.
Keeping an entire building up because he was born there, however, is letting a monument to Hitler stand. Fuck him.
[editline]17th October 2016[/editline]
hell if anything
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51216795]Don't want it to be used as a shrine for Neo Nazis? Turn it into a museum for tolerance, love, and peace.[/QUOTE]
I say, unless its truly remarkable and unique, like hitlers lair, either turn something into a museum or get what you can and replace it with a modern building.
Turning this into a peace museum would be the ultimate thing
[QUOTE=J!NX;51217497]lets be fair. There are only so many buildings you can keep as history. Hitlers lair? Ok fair history. Birthplace? Whats even the point? Should we save ANYTHING the man touched because "Its history"?
There's a point where you save so many things related to hitler that you basically worship the man in a way. you can still take the building down and you know, teach people of the 8 million jews he was connected to killing[/QUOTE]
should we bulldoze everything he touched because it developed an inherent evil just by being near him?
why go out of your way to raze a 100+ year old building in good condition just because hitler was born in it by coincidence
arrest the neo nazis for disturbing the peace and let an old building continue to stand
[QUOTE=Saturn V;51216787]its a piece of bloody history[/QUOTE]
It's insignificant history
[QUOTE=J!NX;51217537]It's better if they recreated anything Hitler related and put it in a room, first. Delay the bulldozing, take any Hitler related anything and put it in a museum, then recreate his room(s). This way you can teach people about him.
Keeping an entire building up because he was born there, however, is letting a monument to Hitler stand. Fuck him.[/QUOTE]
but that's the point, it shouldn't be kept because hitler was there, it should be kept because, regardless of its ties to hitler, it's still a historical building
[editline]17th October 2016[/editline]
at least that's the argument that's being put forward
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;51217583]It's insignificant history[/QUOTE]
among my many antiques is a confederate $20 bill
it is of a common grade, meaning it is insignificant and associated with a negatively regarded regime
should i destroy this historic article on this basis y/n
i leave its fate in your hands
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51217603]among my many antiques is a confederate $20 bill
it is of a common grade, meaning it is insignificant and associated with a negatively regarded regime
should i destroy this historic article on this basis y/n
i leave its fate in your hands[/QUOTE]
don't do it i bet it's worth about 20 bucks
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51217569]should we bulldoze everything he touched because it developed an inherent evil just by being near him?
why go out of your way to raze a 100+ year old building in good condition just because hitler was born in it
arrest the neo nazis for disturbing the peace and let an old building continue to stand[/QUOTE]
We should keep as many things preserved as we can, but you can only keep so many around you know
we shouldn't start destroying hitler related shit without reason, or any history related shit. But you can't really keep everything and anything up purely because it was related to some historical figure.
What are we going to do? Leave a hotel room that hitler commonly had meetings in locked and unused? Start collecting forks that his assistants have used?
I think it'd be better to do what previous people have said and turn it into a museum, that or
[QUOTE]The building had previously been used as a centre for people with disabilities.[/QUOTE]
I'd like to note that bulldozing something "Because hitler" is stupid. But at the same time, if you just happen to want to bulldoze something, but it happens to be related to hitler, like, if it can become a modernized building, why not.
[editline]17th October 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51217603]among my many antiques is a confederate $20 bill
it is of a common grade, meaning it is insignificant and associated with a negatively regarded regime
should i destroy this historic article on this basis y/n
i leave its fate in your hands[/QUOTE]
buildings and objects are massively different from eachother. Statue's don't take that much space, and objects can be moved. You can't really move a building however, unless there is a massive effort.
Lets not assume I believe we should destroy shit because its history of x bad guy. That'd be a pretty shitty misrepresentation of what I've said before.
why though
you shouldn't go out of your way to bulldoze antiquarian buildings or destroy antiques in general
it's not like it is falling down or at risk of falling down, some unsavory people hold it in high regard is all
[editline]17th October 2016[/editline]
"destroy it because it's old" is an even worse justification than "destroy it because it has an association with hitler"
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51217649]why though
you shouldn't go out of your way to bulldoze antiquarian buildings or destroy antiques in general
it's not like it is falling down or at risk of falling down, some unsavory people hold it in high regard is all[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=J!NX;51217537]
I say, unless its truly remarkable and unique, like hitlers lair, either turn something into a museum or get what you can and replace it with a modern building.
Turning this into a peace museum would be the ultimate thing[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=J!NX;51217621]
I'd like to note that bulldozing something "Because hitler" is stupid. But at the same time, if you just happen to want to bulldoze something, but it happens to be related to hitler, like, if it can become a modernized building, why not..[/QUOTE]
Where am I saying this?
you keep saying "why not bulldoze it and replace it with a modern building" and i don't understand why that should be done
[editline]17th October 2016[/editline]
the "why not" is because regardless of its association with hitler it is an antiquarian building in good condition and might as well continue to exist instead of being arbitrarily knocked down and replaced with a building that will achieve the exact same function
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51217649]"destroy it because it's old" is an even worse justification than "destroy it because it has an association with hitler"[/QUOTE]
Should we also keep all buildings up because they are old then? Even the ones that are battered and unused?
i don't understand why old buildings should be demolished when they are perfectly serviceable
my town is slowly but surely bulldozing all of the original old west buildings that this entire town was built around which are all just fine, cheap to maintain, and historic
they are being replaced with poor quality modern constructions that are intended to be torn down and replaced again in a few decades
i do not see the point
i don't care if hitler was born in the local saloon they just knocked down, it was a perfectly fine and unique building with storied walls
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51217670]you keep saying "why not bulldoze it and replace it with a modern building" and i don't understand why that should be done
[editline]17th October 2016[/editline]
the "why not" is because regardless of its association with hitler it is an antiquarian building in good condition and might as well continue to exist instead of being arbitrarily knocked down and replaced with a building that will achieve the exact same function[/QUOTE]
and, hey, like I said, turn it into a museum, or turn it into what it previously was
[QUOTE]The building had previously been used as a centre for people with disabilities.[/QUOTE]
Make it used. Keep it preserved by keeping its history. But if you're going to do nothing to it however, why keep it up? If you're [B]going[/B] to replace it then take what you can and replicate what you can, and replace it.
[editline]17th October 2016[/editline]
what I'm trying to say is
Use the building for something so it isn't a waste of money and space. If you're never going to do anything with it, it'll become an abandoned building, and that's not very useful now is it.
it's not currently being used for anything because the city has been fighting with the owner to knock it down since 1972
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
