HTC Vive will be sold online-only at first, retail might be Q1 next year. HTC hoping to have some st - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Cold;48263463]Do you think they'll ship their hardware without games?[/QUOTE] No, they'll have some Greenlight devs doing their work for them, but their games? I genuinely do believe they'd launch hardware without releasing something like Half Life or Left 4 Dead or whatever.

[QUOTE=Rahu X;48263135]Is there even a price range for the Vive yet? Last we heard about the consumer version of the Rift, they were aiming for around $300, which is pretty damn good I think. The Vive definitely seems like the better of the two in terms of tech and specs, but I don't have any room to walk around in and want more of a sitting experience, so I'll probably go with the Oculus for the first "generation" of this new VR trend. Well, unless the experiences Valve and other SteamVR devs will also be sit down experiences in some way, in which case, I may just save up for a Vive. Also, what happened to the hype around the OSVR headset that Razer was working on?[/QUOTE] They said Vive would be priced as a "premium" experience, so anywhere between $499-699 is my guess. [editline]22nd July 2015[/editline] Oculus will be cheaper with high likelihood around $399, but it still remains to be seen. We'll find out the final prices for both later this year

[QUOTE=Fish_poke;48262799]I still agree with Jeff Gerstmann's take on the whole thing in that VR is super cool, but unless you let people try it before buying it (via setting up booths and stuff at stores) that it will stay a niche market more than anything.[/QUOTE] Virtual Reality Arcades would be an awesome way to get around the limitations VR is encountering. Don't have a giant empty room? Don't have multiple friends who are interested in VR? Don't have the money for an expensive VR set? Go to an arcade where all of those problems are fixed, you can try VR in a place with lots of space, socialize with people and you hopefully don't have to pay much money. I have unrealized dreams of the future where I can go to a VR Arcade with friends and all of us can play the death match game from that Futurama episode where Fry tries out the future's internet.

[QUOTE=Velocet;48263444]But why would you create a VR game that caters to one market specifically rather than both by providing the traditional "sit down and play" experience? This is why Valve absolutely needs to fund these games themselves or else we're just going to get games that you could play on the Oculus instead, but without receiving the Oculus exclusive games. The technology behind Vive is significantly better, but without the software to support it, who the hell cares?[/QUOTE] What Oculus exclusive games?

[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;48263610]What Oculus exclusive games?[/QUOTE] There's two dozen of them in development right now. EVE Valkyrie is one of them. Insomniac is making a game called Edge of Nowhere [video=youtube;XiqExGynEnM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiqExGynEnM[/video]

[QUOTE=Velocet;48263621]There's two dozen of them in development right now. EVE Valkyrie is one of them.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=judgeofdeath;48262878]Don't spread wrong information. They are funding games so there are more VR-compatible games. They've said that they are not stopping the devs from making their games available for other VR-systems. ([URL="http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/07/13/oculus-luckey-offers-explanation-for-exclusive-rift-games"]source1[/URL], [URL="http://www.pcworld.com/article/2948412/software-games/oculus-founder-responds-to-flack-over-exclusive-games.html"]source2[/URL]) There isn't a decent VR standard available, openvr is working on that but it's still lacking. So oculus isn't trying to fragment the market, once openvr is up to par, oculus will most likely support it like the rest.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;48263635][/QUOTE] That quote is referring specifically to games created by third parties in response to exaggerated claims from the community that they're locking things down. [quote]“We are not trying to lock the Oculus ecosystem to our own hardware,” he wrote. The games being developed exclusively for the Rift were entirely funded by Oculus, Luckey said, and wouldn’t exist at all if Oculus hadn’t been funding them. Making quality VR games is hard, and supporting other headsets isn’t a priority for launch, he said. The Rift is scheduled for general availability next March. “Most companies would have done this as a 1st party software development effort,” Luckey said on Reddit, “but we decided it would be better to work with existing developers who wanted to get past the bean counters and make sweet VR games.” One Redditor asked if the developers of the exclusive games could implement OpenVR after they’re launched and make them available for other platforms. The answer, said Luckey, is maybe. “Some of our titles might end up on other headsets at some point, but I am not going to make any promises when we are still rushing to launch our own product,” he wrote.[/quote]

[QUOTE=Velocet;48263621]There's two dozen of them in development right now. EVE Valkyrie is one of them. Insomniac is making a game called Edge of Nowhere [video=youtube;XiqExGynEnM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiqExGynEnM[/video][/QUOTE] Eve: Valkyrie is also releasing on morpheus

[QUOTE=Cold;48263682]Eve: Valkyrie is also releasing on morpheus[/QUOTE] It's a PC VR platform exclusive though.

[QUOTE=bitches;48262438]Oculus has controllers which track hands and also fingers[/QUOTE] Ah right, they have one as well, but it's quite different. Guess it's worth noting Occulus controllers: [thumb]http://static1.gamespot.com/uploads/original/123/1239113/2882181-oculus-touch-2.jpg[/thumb] Vive controllers: [thumb]http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/IMG_4226-980x1470.jpg[/thumb] STEM controllers (third party, offers packs to track additional joints on body): [thumb]http://i.ytimg.com/vi/C8z-On6FBTM/maxresdefault.jpg[/thumb] [thumb]http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0287/0126/products/band-2_large.png?v=1409186279[/thumb]

[QUOTE=MasterFen006;48262357]Is there any actual reason to get either the Vive or the Oculus over one another?[/QUOTE] The Vive has significantly better specs than the Oculus, and supposedly gives you far less motion sickness.

[QUOTE=Monkah;48263869]The Vive has significantly better specs than the Oculus, and supposedly gives you far less motion sickness.[/QUOTE] Unfounded and unfounded. Final specs of the displays of either the Oculus or the Vive have not been released yet, and no major motion sickness reports on either side with the most recent prototypes.

I hope that they will sell the vive with a compact tracker setup for just sitting.

Does Valve-time apply to the Vive? Because if valve is making something for it they may as well release in 2020.

[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;48264161]Unfounded and unfounded. [B]Final specs of the displays of either the Oculus or the Vive have not been released yet[/B], and no major motion sickness reports on either side with the most recent prototypes.[/QUOTE][URL="http://www.gamespot.com/articles/oculus-rift-vs-morpheus-vs-vive-vr/1100-6427162/"]Uhh, yes they have.[/URL] [QUOTE][B]Oculus Rift [/B](Q1 2016) Specifications Resolution: 2160×1200 Screen: 5.7" OLED (DK2, may change) Refresh rate: 90Hz [B](split over dual displays)[/B] Field of view: 100 degrees Sensors: Accelerometer, Gyroscope, Magnetometer Connection: HDMI, USB 2.0, USB 3.0[/QUOTE] [QUOTE][B]Valve's HTC Vive[/B] (Holiday 2015) Specifications Resolution: 1200x1800 [B](per eye)[/B] Screen size: TBC Refresh rate: 90Hz Field of view: TBC Sensors: Accelerometer, Gyrosensor, laser position sensor Connection: HDMI, USB 2.0, USB 3.0[/QUOTE] Face it-- the Vive is easily the better option. The Vive's resolution is per eye instead of overall, and the refresh rate per eye is double of what the Oculus has. I don't know what Oculus has in its advantage other than [I]maybe [/I]a price difference.

From what I have heard from coworkers and fellow developers is the current developer edition of Vive is leaps and bounds better than Oculus, including development and quality of the VR. But that is of course hear say and opinion, although both are relatively objective in this case.

[QUOTE=Monkah;48265473][URL="http://www.gamespot.com/articles/oculus-rift-vs-morpheus-vs-vive-vr/1100-6427162/"]Uhh, yes they have.[/URL] ...specs... Face it-- the Vive is easily the better option. The Vive's resolution is per eye instead of overall, and the refresh rate per eye is double of what the Oculus has. I don't know what Oculus has in its advantage other than [I]maybe [/I]a price difference.[/QUOTE] I'm not up-to-date, but last time I read the interviews few months ago Vive was supposed to be marketed as a premium device with better specs for real VR enthusiasts, and Oculus is planning to be more affordable to reach a broader market. Did the two companies change their plans in the mean time ? I am expecting the better specs of Vive will come with at least 200$ higher price or something. But then again, it really depends what will be in the packaging, will the sensors and controllers be sold separately, etc... Oculus comes with just Xbox controller and a camera.

[QUOTE=Monkah;48265473][URL="http://www.gamespot.com/articles/oculus-rift-vs-morpheus-vs-vive-vr/1100-6427162/"]Uhh, yes they have.[/URL] Face it-- the Vive is easily the better option. The Vive's resolution is per eye instead of overall, and the refresh rate per eye is double of what the Oculus has. I don't know what Oculus has in its advantage other than [I]maybe [/I]a price difference.[/QUOTE] i don't think you understand what a refresh rate is

Why are people being so silly? You do not need an empty room for vive, you could do it in your Living room as much as you can play the Wii. It has lots of trackers and such build in, so it alerts you when you nearly hit something etc. About the ''no games'' part, Valve & HTC partnered up with Lionsgate for example, and the dev versions have been send out to many companies/young starters who are already developing some great things! (Search youtube) The Vive is amazing and I'm most likely getting the chance to try it out as HTC elevate member soon, I have my fingers crossed. The original release date would be Q04 for the Vive, but this seems like they're not gonna make it... (PS , Yes everything you can do with the oculus you can do with the Vive, and much more). [QUOTE]Microsoft Flight Simulator X developer Dovertail Games, The Room developer Fireproof Games, and Cloudhead games have already signed up to make content for the device. Google, Lionsgate, and HBO have also been confirmed as content partners. At GDC this year developer Owlchemy Labs debuted one of the first games designed specifically for Valve's SteamVR, titled Job Simulator. [/QUOTE] I think flight simulator is really a great thing, since there are lots of fanatics around the world who are tired with the 6 screen setup . To check all partnerships go to the 3'th dot form up (Right on the page, on the side) "Partnership" [url]http://www.htcvr.com/[/url] [editline]22nd July 2015[/editline] Besides that HTC vive has the best tracking / laser tracking of any of the competitors. They don't even come close [editline]22nd July 2015[/editline] Also this recently appeared online [video=youtube;u28oYid7pOU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u28oYid7pOU[/video]

[QUOTE=Monkah;48265473][URL="http://www.gamespot.com/articles/oculus-rift-vs-morpheus-vs-vive-vr/1100-6427162/"]Uhh, yes they have.[/URL][/QUOTE] Since then, Oculus has announced that the display will be better upon release. [url]http://uploadvr.com/oculus-rift-display-improvements/[/url] This is a June 13 article. The one you posted is May 15. [QUOTE=Monkah;48265473] Face it-- the Vive is easily the better option. The Vive's resolution is per eye instead of overall, and the refresh rate per eye is double of what the Oculus has. I don't know what Oculus has in its advantage other than [I]maybe [/I]a price difference.[/QUOTE] This makes no sense whatsoever... I don't think you know as much about this as you think you do: [QUOTE=Monkah;48265473] Face it-- the Vive is easily the better option. [/QUOTE] Hah, "face it". I'll "face it" when both the headsets are out and reviews are out, and then I'll [I]face[/I] the one that seems the best for me. Until then the only thing I have to [I]face[/I] is your rubbish. [QUOTE=Monkah;48265473] The Vive's resolution is per eye instead of overall[/QUOTE] I'm not sure you realize, but the Rift isn't to be worn by cyclops. It still has two lenses and an image being displayed for each eye. [QUOTE=Monkah;48265473] and the refresh rate per eye is double of what the Oculus has[/QUOTE] ...what? They're both 90 hertz. I honestly feel like I'm being trolled right now. Also: [quote] Oculus Rift (Q1 2016) Specifications Resolution: 2160×1200 Screen: 5.7" OLED [B](DK2, may change)[/B] Refresh rate: 90Hz (split over dual displays) Field of view: 100 degrees Sensors: Accelerometer, Gyroscope, Magnetometer Connection: HDMI, USB 2.0, USB 3.0[/quote] The bolded bit makes me think they're getting their data from the DK2 in that article. Which is bollocks... IIRC the final Rift will also have 110º FOV, not the 100 of the DK2. [editline]22nd July 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Siemz;48265982] Besides that HTC vive has the best tracking / laser tracking of any of the competitors. They don't even come close[/QUOTE] It's a very silly thing to say that the competitors [I]don't even come close[/I] when as far as we can currently tell the only advantage the Vive's tracking system has is a bigger tracking volume. Oculus' tracking is just as crisp.

[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;48266060] It's a very silly thing to say that the competitors [I]don't even come close[/I] when as far as we can currently tell the only advantage the Vive's tracking system has is a bigger tracking volume. Oculus' tracking is just as crisp.[/QUOTE] Sounds exactly like Apple/Windows or Apple/Android discussions here Everyone their own opinion but spec wise the Vive is definitely the best, no need to argue about that

[QUOTE=Siemz;48266132]Sounds exactly like Apple/Windows or Apple/Android discussions here Everyone their own opinion but spec wise the Vive is definitely the best, no need to argue about that[/QUOTE] certainly but is vive worth the quality difference for the price, for the average customer? does the average customer have the space to fully utilize the room-scale tracking range feature? will it have as many games? valve is a private company, but they may truly not have many games in development, where as oculus is funding [I]many[/I] games into existence, and developers have had way more time with oculus's device will developers make games designed for a room's worth of tracking, or use the lowest common denominator of space: the desk and chair? while the vive is better, it likely won't be fully utilized by most games, making it the poorer consumer choice except for the wealthy enthusiast

[QUOTE=Siemz;48265982]The original release date would be Q04 for the Vive, but this seems like they're not gonna make it... [/QUOTE] The Vive is confirmed to ship in 2015 Q4 with only online-ordering, in 2016 Q1 you'll be able to go to retail and buy it there as well. [QUOTE=Monkah;48265473][URL="http://www.gamespot.com/articles/oculus-rift-vs-morpheus-vs-vive-vr/1100-6427162/"]Uhh, yes they have.[/URL] Face it-- the Vive is easily the better option. The Vive's resolution is per eye instead of overall, and the refresh rate per eye is double of what the Oculus has. I don't know what Oculus has in its advantage other than [I]maybe [/I]a price difference.[/QUOTE] Both Vive and Oculus use 2 screens each, both running at 90Hz. The only significant difference between the two headsets, that we currently know of, is the dual cameras on the Vive which will likely be used for the Chaperon system which projects a transparent barrier in VR in the Vive which represents real-world objects when you get close to them so you don't bump into them. [QUOTE=SeneorGoat;48264467]Does Valve-time apply to the Vive? Because if valve is making something for it they may as well release in 2020.[/QUOTE] HTC is designing and manufacturing the Vive. HTC has a great track record for shipping in time so I wouldn't worry. [QUOTE=*Freezorg*;48264161]Unfounded and unfounded. Final specs of the displays of either the Oculus or the Vive have not been released yet, and no major motion sickness reports on either side with the most recent prototypes.[/QUOTE] While the Oculus and Vive displays will improve before launch, it's confirmed the Rift's resolution and refresh rates are already locked down. The screens will probably improve in other ways such as distance between pixels and pixel arrangement. Display specs of the Oculus are found here: "On the raw rendering costs: a traditional 1080p game at 60Hz requires 124 million shaded pixels per second. In contrast, [B]the Rift runs at 2160×1200 at 90Hz split over dual displays[/B], consuming 233 million pixels per second. At the default eye-target scale, the Rift’s rendering requirements go much higher: around 400 million shaded pixels per second. This means that by raw rendering costs alone, a VR game will require approximately 3x the GPU power of 1080p rendering." Source: [URL="https://www1.oculus.com/blog/powering-the-rift/"]https://www1.oculus.com/blog/powering-the-rift/[/URL] [QUOTE=Monkah;48263869]The Vive has significantly better specs than the Oculus, and supposedly gives you far less motion sickness.[/QUOTE] Motion sickness is more or less a solved problem for both Vive and Oculus, provided the software experiences don't do things which will make you sick (e.g. running at a low frame rate, or moving the player's perspective without any input). [QUOTE=Elspin;48263788] Vive controllers: [thumb]http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/IMG_4226-980x1470.jpg[/thumb] STEM controllers (third party, offers packs to track additional joints on body): [thumb]http://i.ytimg.com/vi/C8z-On6FBTM/maxresdefault.jpg[/thumb] [/QUOTE] Vive controllers are now wireless. It's very likely STEM will be dead-on-arrival due to being delayed well over a year and releasing at the same time as the Vive, at which point motion controllers are already bundled in with the headset. Valve is also releasing the tracking standard it uses for the headset and controllers, Lighthouse, for free so already the very-expensive STEM system will be made obsolete by much cheaper and more accurate third party controllers which will inevitably come out. STEM uses a magnetic tracking system they're having a ton of trouble passing FCC/CE safety regulations, so unless they abandon the tracking system they've been working on for years in favour of Valve's (not likely but possible) it's not worth buying STEM at all. Re-read all of that from a developer's standpoint and it's more a less a given that there'll be next-to-no content for STEM. [QUOTE=Rahu X;48263135] Last we heard about the consumer version of the Rift, they were aiming for around $300, which is pretty damn good I think.[/QUOTE] No confirmed price for the Rift but Palmer Luckey has repeatedly stated they'll use their Facebook resources to make the Rift sell as close to cost as possible. So it might be anywhere from $200 - $400 (probably not more than that though). [QUOTE=Fish_poke;48262799]I still agree with Jeff Gerstmann's take on the whole thing in that VR is super cool, but unless you let people try it before buying it (via setting up booths and stuff at stores) that it will stay a niche market more than anything.[/QUOTE] Oculus confirmed at least that you'll be able to try the Rift out in stores. Rumoured stores include Best Buy among others in the US whilst in the UK the store Game has pretty much confirmed they'll have it ready to try in stores. I can't imagine the Vive won't be in stores. [QUOTE=bitches;48262438] Oculus has controllers which track hands and also fingers[/QUOTE] Oculus touch controllers come out in Q2 of 2016 though, not alongside the release of the Rift. This will probably create input fragmentation as devs can't be certain if a Rift user only has the included Xbox One controller or both the controller and the Touch controllers. Touch might be bundled later but every Vive is guaranteed to be shipped with their 3D-tracked motion controllers.

[QUOTE=Siemz;48266132]Sounds exactly like Apple/Windows or Apple/Android discussions here Everyone their own opinion but spec wise the Vive is definitely the best, no need to argue about that[/QUOTE] And he just keeps going...

[QUOTE=Elspin;48262430]Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think the Vive has STEM-esque controllers that you can get with it whereas the occulus doesn't.[/QUOTE] The Oculus touch controllers look more promising because they have dual triggers on the back (use one to pick up a gun, use other to shoot seamlessly for example) and also can virtually read your gestures such as the middle finger or thumbs up etc.

I don't understand Do you need to clear your room to use the Vive or not? I just want to sit in my chair and use keyboard and mouse

[QUOTE=General;48268711]I don't understand Do you need to clear your room to use the Vive or not? I just want to sit in my chair and use keyboard and mouse[/QUOTE] From what everyone's saying I've gathered "no but there's an optional tracking feature if you do?"

[QUOTE=General;48268711]I don't understand Do you need to clear your room to use the Vive or not? I just want to sit in my chair and use keyboard and mouse[/QUOTE] No you can map the objects in your room with lighthouse and iirc it will even warn you if a small pet crosses your path.

I can promise you that someone will come along and write drivers for the Vive that emulate the closed Oculus platform, seeing as the hardware is incredibly similar and has all the same features. It might not be perfect, but it will work just fine. I'm getting a Vive, because of the Valve backing, increased resolution, full room tracking, and HTC makes nice hardware. I do like the Oculus controllers better, but that's a compromise I'm willing to make for those other improvements.

[QUOTE=General;48268711]I don't understand Do you need to clear your room to use the Vive or not? I just want to sit in my chair and use keyboard and mouse[/QUOTE] will the extra cost for the vive's marginally better screen be worth spending hundreds more dollars, as someone not interested in it's primary selling point (room tracking)?