Trump revealed highly classified information to Russian foreign minister and ambassador - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Jackpody;52236529]I see this is picking up on FP right now but there's nothing I can find about why this might be on local media. Can anyone give me a quick intro to why the thread suddenly picked up speed today?[/QUOTE] There was a press conference.

[QUOTE=Zenreon117;52236535]I'm not supporting trump or nesto here, but, in the interest of discussion, would not such information be okay to share so long as the public at large would not be able to hear about it? If the details were spoken in public then not only Russia, but also ISIS would know about them. Ofcourse, this is setting aside the issue that Israel asked us nicely not to disclose that information supposedly. [editline]16th May 2017[/editline] Nesto[/QUOTE] We're talking about information that was classified though, that never should have reached Russia's ears - none the less our own closer allies. This is why it's a problem.

[QUOTE=Nookyava;52236547]We're talking about information that was classified though, that never should have reached Russia's ears - none the less our own closer allies. This is why it's a problem.[/QUOTE] This is where it does become difficult however because we also need to know that the information that was shared was not only classified but also classified such that the Russians [i]shouldn't[/i] know about it. But, I agree, it is certainly a bad sign when even our allies haven't received this info yet.

[QUOTE=Zenreon117;52236561]This is where it does become difficult however because we also need to know that the information that was shared was not only classified but also classified such that the Russians [i]shouldn't[/i] know about it. But, I agree, it is certainly a bad sign when even our allies haven't received this info yet.[/QUOTE] I think that's honestly the big kicker, is that Russia was informed before any of our allies. From what I understand this information shouldn't have been leaked to begin with, from those who provided it. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this though.

can a trump supporter tell me why trump blurting out state secrets is a good thing cause i'm drawing a blank here

[QUOTE=Zenreon117;52236535]I'm not supporting trump or nesto here, but, in the interest of discussion, would not such information be okay to share so long as the public at large would not be able to hear about it? If the details were spoken in public then not only Russia, but also ISIS would know about them. Ofcourse, this is setting aside the issue that Israel asked us nicely not to disclose that information supposedly.[/QUOTE] This just raises the question of why whatever information Israel does know on that ISIS laptop bombing plot only was to be shared with America, and not any other allied country. What the hell can be the point of that?

[QUOTE=EXPLOOOSIONS!;52236577]can a trump supporter tell me why trump blurting out state secrets is a good thing cause i'm drawing a blank here[/QUOTE] hillary emails

[QUOTE=Nookyava;52236568]I think that's honestly the big kicker, is that Russia was informed before any of our allies. From what I understand this information shouldn't have been leaked to begin with, from those who provided it. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this though.[/QUOTE] From what I recall, and assuming the reports are right, Israel gave this information to us, and there has been pundit talk of how this is a betrayal of their trust, but I haven't heard any official statements to the effect of "They didn't want us to share the information at all". The closest thing I recall hearing is someone saying that this might make it so that "The person who gave us this information won't next time." but I forget who said that.

[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;52236419]It depends If you talk about how delicious is Goulash, I don't see the problem. Now, I invite you to enter Langley, grab a classified file, read it and then go tell the Ambassador of Russia whatever was in that file. If you don't understand whats WRONG with that...you shouldn't even have the ability to vote...[/QUOTE] It entirely depends what's in that hypothetical file. Obviously sharing intel with other governments isn't always wrong lol. In this case it is because doing so broke an agreement with Israel (?).

[QUOTE=MrRalgoman;52236393]He talked to Russia about terrorism and flight safety, what is everyone freaking out about?[/QUOTE] We don't know what they talked about specifically, we're freaking out because a large number of credible news organizations are freaking out about White House officials freaking out about [I]something Trump said[/I] to the Russians. And whatever it was, Trump indirectly admitted saying it by defending his right to do so. Why did the officials freak out about revealing compromising information if they just talked about flight safety and terrorism? Basically your only choices here are either that the officials made it up, or the news organizations made it up, or that Trump is lying when he says everything is fine even though he did share information. The fact that Trump lies on a regular basis is irrefutable fact, so I don't understand how you can continuously cling to the fake news narrative. Why do you lend Trump so much more blind trust than you give all the involved news organizations combined? If he did do it, Trump has 100% reason to deny (or downplay) it. If he [I]didn't[/I] do it, news agencies have [I]very little reason[/I] to say he did because they risk their reputation as credible news agencies.

[QUOTE=Zenreon117;52236584]From what I recall, and assuming the reports are right, Israel gave this information to us, and there has been pundit talk of how this is a betrayal of their trust, but I haven't heard any official statements to the effect of "They didn't want us to share the information at all". The closest thing I recall hearing is someone saying that this might make it so that "The person who gave us this information won't next time." but I forget who said that.[/QUOTE] If you find that let me know, but then we heard the same thing - that Israel provided this info based on our relationship, and Trump just blurting it out to Russia is definitely not good. So if we're going off these pieces of info... > Israel gives info to the US, supposedly not to be repeated elsewhere > Trump meets with Russia and provides said info. Russia, the last people we should be giving sensitive info to. > Whitehouse denies that Trump did so, and Trump confirms himself later that he did ... then we can confirm that this is indeed a problem. This is assuming that all of this is true without fail, and I'm certain there's still info we have yet to receive. I don't get how anyone can believe that this is acceptable.

[QUOTE=Zenreon117;52236535]I'm not supporting trump or nesto here, but, in the interest of discussion, would not such information be okay to share so long as the public at large would not be able to hear about it? If the details were spoken in public then not only Russia, but also ISIS would know about them. Ofcourse, this is setting aside the issue that Israel asked us nicely not to disclose that information supposedly.[/QUOTE] Basically, they were of value to national security but highly restricted to a tight communication link between the USA and Israel, established to be secure and obscured from other actors, even allies due to keeping the operations secretive and secure from breaches, ergo effective in practice. Just up and leaking them to other state actors without as much as hesitation massively violates the trust other world governments place into the USA and it can jeopardize operations. To make the scenario something you can relate with, imagine if the USA was utilizing an intelligence gathering operation throughout Canada to identify and determine the forces of various Asian organized crime syndicates and terrorist cells operating near or within Canada, which they agreed to only share with the Canadian government. Then, Trump accidentally showed the entire recent documentation exposing the full extent of the American-Canadian activities to a Chinese Ministry of State Security secret agent. What would your response towards the US government be if something like that were to happen?

The fact people will blindly defend their leaders and believe their leaders frightens me. Even if I liked our current Taoseach - hell, if I was living in the time of Sean Lemass, the greatest statesman Ireland has ever produced - do you honestly believe I'd believe him vs. impartial media people, who's very jobs are not to spin but to get to the truth of the matter and tell us what has happened, what exactly has happened and what was said? Don't make me laugh. Please, I implore all Americans, think critically over what's happened over the last few months. Think about what Trump has done. What's happened isn't acceptable. It shouldn't be acceptable.

[QUOTE=croguy;52236601]Basically, they were of value to national security but highly restricted to a tight communication link between the USA and Israel, established to be secure and obscured from other actors, even allies due to keeping the operations secretive and secure from breaches, ergo effective in practice. Just up and leaking them to other state actors without as much as hesitation massively violates the trust other world governments place into the USA and it can jeopardize operations. To make the scenario something you can relate with, imagine if the USA was utilizing an intelligence gathering operation throughout Canada to identify and determine the forces of various Asian organized crime syndicates and terrorist cells operating near or within Canada, which they agreed to only share with the Canadian government. Then, Trump accidentally showed the entire recent documentation exposing the full extent of the American-Canadian activities to a Chinese Ministry of State Security secret agent. What would your response towards the US government be if something like that were to happen?[/QUOTE] I would probably ask what ties the Chinese government has to the people on the ground who are causing the violence. If there was a tie I would be upset, but if there wasn't I'd just likely chock it up to co-operation. That being said, if Trump did violate an agreement of secrecy that is not solely binding on the grounds of 'classified' but rather on diplomatic grounds, then yeah, he fucked up bad. The only thing that can justify him would be Israel being like "It's okay, no biggie, it was just some minor information"

People don't get the reason why this is bad, especially for Israel. Thus far Israel has been able to stay out of the conflict with isis, but now they're likely to be targeted by them. This info essentially makes Russia and ISIS a threat to one of our closest allies in the middle East (even though I don't like what they're doing to the Palestine). Moreover than that, mossad has some of the biggest connections with intelligence the world over.

[QUOTE=Sherow_Xx;52236595]We don't know what they talked about specifically, we're freaking out because a large number of credible news organizations are freaking out about White House officials freaking out about [I]something Trump said[/I] to the Russians. And whatever it was, Trump indirectly admitted saying it by defending his right to do so. Why did the officials freak out about revealing compromising information if they just talked about flight safety and terrorism? Basically your only choices here are either that the officials made it up, or the news organizations made it up, or that Trump is lying when he says everything is fine even though he did share information. The fact that Trump lies on a regular basis is irrefutable fact, so I don't understand how you can continuously cling to the fake news narrative. Why do you lend Trump so much more blind trust than you give all the involved news organizations combined? If he did do it, Trump has 100% reason to deny (or downplay) it. If he [I]didn't[/I] do it, news agencies have [I]very little reason[/I] to say he did because they risk their reputation as credible news agencies.[/QUOTE] If Trump did share information he shouldn't have I would like to see him impeached as much as everyone else would, but there isn't much leg to stand on when you claim "well these 2 people told us so but we cant tell you who". That's the issue I have with all of this, everyone is always claiming Trump has broke the law but nobody is willing to formally press charges or anything because they [I]know[/I] that they have nothing to prove it with besides "these 2 guys that told us so".

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;52236475]Sharing information can be fine. Sharing information that can jeopardize the US' relationship with allies during a war has awful implications for the US on the international stage. Sorry for the accidental star.[/QUOTE] [url]http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/05/16/washington-reels-from-bombshell-trump-leak/[/url]

[QUOTE=MrRalgoman;52236628]If Trump did share information he shouldn't have I would like to see him impeached as much as everyone else would, but there isn't much leg to stand on when you claim "well these 2 people told us so but we cant tell you who". That's the issue I have with all of this, everyone is always claiming Trump has broke the law but nobody is willing to formally press charges or anything because they [I]know[/I] that they have nothing to prove it with besides "these 2 guys that told us so".[/QUOTE] Don't worry, that's what we have an FBI investigation underway for At least we did until Tinyhands dismissed the director of the FBI after they requested more resources for the investigation And Trump did share information. McMaster was at least willing to admit that much. While as far as I know the WH still hasn't quite got around to confirming or denying it was classified, McMaster has also admitted that [quote]In the context of that discussion, what the president discussed with the foreign minister was wholly appropriate to that investigation,[/quote] He's also stated that Trump didn't even know where the information came from and honestly I think that should be a massive cause for concern in and of itself. That is just straight up negligent

[QUOTE=Kljunas;52236587]It entirely depends what's in that hypothetical file. Obviously sharing intel with other governments isn't always wrong lol. In this case it is because doing so broke an agreement with Israel (?).[/QUOTE] Yeah, the issue is that sharing info with May or Macron is not the same as sharing info with Russia. Plus Trump is dumb. Dumb as fuck. Sharing intel without knowing the implications about what you can reveal is just way too dangerous. "Oh right but I just told them something about ISIS positions and agents on certain areas of the wrold" might have thought Trump, without knowing that such information can be used to track down people from other countries (arguably, in this case, Israel) and do other things. Just like the Churchill-Coventry controversy, it can fuck up someone badly if you reveal something indirectly.

I'm gonna dip outta this thread. I'm at work and I've pretty much said my peace. All I can leave on is that people need to look at all sources of news and take them into account. Republican, Democrat, look at the news source, become informed, and make your own decision. Don't blindly follow someone who clearly messed up this time, and you can't even properly defend him. Plugging ears and screaming [i]lalalala[/i] does nothing good for anyone.

[QUOTE=Sitkero;52236666] At least we did until Tinyhands dismissed the director of the FBI after they requested more resources for the investigation[/QUOTE] That's been proven false

[QUOTE=MrRalgoman;52236628]If Trump did share information he shouldn't have I would like to see him impeached as much as everyone else would, but there isn't much leg to stand on when you claim "well these 2 people told us so but we cant tell you who". That's the issue I have with all of this, everyone is always claiming Trump has broke the law but nobody is willing to formally press charges or anything because they [I]know[/I] that they have nothing to prove it with besides "these 2 guys that told us so".[/QUOTE] So you want to burn your source? Have them fired from their positions and furthermore, cutting the link that allows you know what shit Trump is saying? Not a wonderful idea. Nobody on his sane mind would reveal who these 2 people are. But, judging from Trump and the reps reaction, these aren't fake news...

[QUOTE=-nesto-;52236683]That's been proven false[/QUOTE] please, do elaborate

[QUOTE=-nesto-;52236683]That's been proven false[/QUOTE] are you literally brain dead

[QUOTE=-nesto-;52236683]That's been proven false[/QUOTE] Has it? I was under the impression that he was fired after he asked for more resources into the investigation. Source?

[QUOTE=-nesto-;52236350][I]irony[/I][/QUOTE] "You keep using that word. I don't think that means what you think it means."

[URL="https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/05/11/full-transcript-acting-fbi-director-mccabe-and-others-testify-before-the-senate-intelligence-committee/"]WaPo has the full transcript of his hearing[/URL] Acting Director McCabe(A Democrat) HEINRICH: Thank you for your candor. Do you feel like you have the adequate resources for the existing investigations that the -- that the bureau is invested in right now to -- to follow them wherever they may lead? MCCABE: Sir, if you're referring to the Russia investigation, I do. I believe we have the adequate resources to do it and I know that we have resourced that investigation adequately. If you're referring to the many constantly multiplying counter-intelligence threats that we face across the spectrum, they get bigger and more challenging every day and resources become an issue over time. HEINRICH: Sure. MCCABE: But in terms of that investigation, sir, I can -- I can assure you we are covered. HEINRICH: Thank you. Another bit that's never discussed([I]for some reason[/I]) RUBIO: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. McCabe, can you without going into the specific of any individual investigation, I think the American people want to know, has the dismissal of Mr. Comey in any way impeded, interrupted, stopped or negatively impacted any of the work, any investigation, or any ongoing projects at the Federal Bureau of Investigations? MCCABE: As you know, Senator, the work of the men and women of the FBI continues despite any changes in circumstance, any decisions. So there has been no effort to impede our investigation today. Quite simply put sir, you cannot stop the men and women of the FBI from doing the right thing, protecting the American people, and upholding the Constitution.

[QUOTE=-nesto-;52236683]That's been proven false[/QUOTE] Where, exactly? To the best of my recollection the president straight up admitted that the reason he dismissed Comey was because of the FBI investigation into potential Russian ties

[QUOTE=-nesto-;52236699]Acting Director McCabe(A Democrat) HEINRICH: Thank you for your candor. Do you feel like you have the adequate resources for the existing investigations that the -- that the bureau is invested in right now to -- to follow them wherever they may lead? MCCABE: Sir, if you're referring to the Russia investigation, I do. I believe we have the adequate resources to do it and I know that we have resourced that investigation adequately. If you're referring to the many constantly multiplying counter-intelligence threats that we face across the spectrum, they get bigger and more challenging every day and resources become an issue over time. HEINRICH: Sure. MCCABE: But in terms of that investigation, sir, I can -- I can assure you we are covered. HEINRICH: Thank you.[/QUOTE] Trump fired him over the [url=https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/11/donald-trump-james-comey-firing-russia-investigation]Russia thing[/url] and whether or not the acting director feels he has enough resources, [url=https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/10/us/politics/comey-russia-investigation-fbi.html]Comey had recently asked for more funding.[/url] Video in the first source literally shows Trump saying it was to do with the russia investigation, and as discussed above the New York Times, whilst liberally biased, are a reliable source of facts.

[QUOTE=-nesto-;52236699]Acting Director McCabe(A Democrat) HEINRICH: Thank you for your candor. Do you feel like you have the adequate resources for the existing investigations that the -- that the bureau is invested in right now to -- to follow them wherever they may lead? MCCABE: Sir, if you're referring to the Russia investigation, I do. I believe we have the adequate resources to do it and I know that we have resourced that investigation adequately. If you're referring to the many constantly multiplying counter-intelligence threats that we face across the spectrum, they get bigger and more challenging every day and resources become an issue over time. HEINRICH: Sure. MCCABE: But in terms of that investigation, sir, I can -- I can assure you we are covered. HEINRICH: Thank you.[/QUOTE] A proper source for these quotes would be nice