[QUOTE=Lobotmik;49803946]Well they're undeniably criminals, although it's presumptuous to take it as far as rape and burglary[/QUOTE]of course? illegally crossing into a country does not make you a rapist or a thief. you do not say "they are not sending their best, they are sending rapists and thieves" when talking about the 8 million illegals who contribute, and are exploited, within the american economy.
[QUOTE=wystan;49803950]don't deserve to be in my country[/QUOTE]
Just for the future, most would find this to be pretty aggressive. I know you're probably using "my country" out of pride rather than spite, but in this context it looks like the latter.
[QUOTE=wystan;49803950]I didn't say that. But they are all criminals none the less and don't deserve to be in my country if they can't be bothered to come here legally and integrate.[/QUOTE]alright, so why is trump making the illegallity of these people one of his main platform issues? why is he not talking about a path to citizenship for people who contribute, people who travelled in illegally because it's incredibly hard to get through legally?
why is it, when illegal immigration from mexico has been declinging since 2007, that he is specifically talking about them as his main campaign issue?
why is he saying "make america great again" and then talking about deporting 11 million people, when that would have a negative impact on the economy? what is the implication there?
why is he not talking about the illegal activities of people on wall street or within the justice system? people who have done more harm to american families, and specific minorities? why is he using that rhetoric?
[QUOTE=benzi2k7;49803954]of course? illegally crossing into a country does not make you a rapist or a thief. you do not say "they are not sending their best, they are sending rapists and thieves" when talking about the 8 million illegals who contribute, and are exploited, within the american economy.[/QUOTE]
They should have gone through legal channels so that they would get actual protection. But instead, we're incentivizing illegal immigration by granting a lot of amnesty and the like, which only causes issues because it's more "rewarding" to get in illegally than legally now.
[QUOTE=Lobotmik;49803972]They should have gone through legal channels so that they would get actual protection. But instead, we're incentivizing illegal immigration by granting a lot of amnesty and the like, which only causes issues because it's more "rewarding" to get in illegally than legally now.[/QUOTE]they are incentivizing illegal immigration by making it incredibly hard to legally immigrate into the country, that is why people on the democrat side (..and rubio, i think? not sure) are talking about immigration reform.
why, given the option, would immigrants choose to go in a van stuffed with other people if not for the fact that it is hard to legally immigrate? to talk about illegal immigration while not talking about reform to make it easier for the right people to come into the country is very suspicious. there's a total of 5,000 permanent visas for immigrants a [B]year[/B], back in 1910 5000 people were travelling through Ellis island every day!
a very good read [url]http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/just-facts/why-don%E2%80%99t-they-just-get-line[/url]
Your whole agriculture industry depends on illegal immigrants, get real dude.
[QUOTE=Killuah;49803988]Your whole agriculture industry depends on illegal immigrants, get real dude.[/QUOTE]and sadly when talking about that industry it's more accurate to describe them as slaves :x
[QUOTE=benzi2k7;49803981]they are incentivizing illegal immigration by making it incredibly hard to legally immigrate into the country, that is why people on the democrat side (..and rubio, i think? not sure) are talking about immigration reform.
why, given the option, would immigrants choose to go in a van stuffed with other people if not for the fact that it is hard to legally immigrate? to talk about illegal immigration while not talking about reform to make it easier for the right people to come into the country is very suspicious. there's a total of 5,000 permanent visas for immigrants a [B]year[/B], back in 1910 5000 people were travelling through Ellis island every day!
a very good read [url]http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/just-facts/why-don%E2%80%99t-they-just-get-line[/url][/QUOTE]
Well there's a reason I wish Rubio were beating Trump right now.
Oh, and I'll give that info page a look-over later.
[QUOTE=benzi2k7;49803969]alright, so why is trump making the illegallity of these people one of his main platform issues? why is he not talking about a path to citizenship for people who contribute, people who travelled in illegally because it's incredibly hard to get through legally?
why is it, when illegal immigration from mexico has been declinging since 2007, that he is specifically talking about them as his main campaign issue?
why is he saying "make america great again" and then talking about deporting 11 million people, when that would have a negative impact on the economy? what is the implication there?
why is he not talking about the illegal activities of people on wall street or within the justice system? people who have done more harm to american families, and specific minorities? why is he using that rhetoric?[/QUOTE]
These people don't deserve to be rewarded with citizenship for coming here and inherently committing a crime in the process, that spits in the face of every legal hardworking immigrant. It's a main issue because you aren't aware of the violence and link this has to cartel violence, this illegal immigration results in American lives lost. The whole situation is a clusterfuck and not an easy fix, and if we can't just fix Mexico's problems, the next best option is preventing Mexico's problem from reaching us.
A better impact on the economy would be nothing but legal workers not trying to duck the system.
[QUOTE=Killuah;49803988]Your whole agriculture industry depends on illegal immigrants, get real dude.[/QUOTE]
Lol please, many they don't own farms and the like, they make up replaceable labor, and from personal experience most of the Hispanics working are legal anyway, so they are Americans.
[url]http://www.agcensus.usda.gov/Publications/2012/Online_Resources/Race,_Ethnicity_and_Gender_Profiles/cpd99000.pdf[/url]
[QUOTE=Fat White Lump;49803298]I'll give you my Steam account if you can prove he ever said anything racist.
[editline]24th February 2016[/editline]
Anyways, him winning is great news. He has even more momentum for Super Tuesday, it's extremely exciting to see that people realize Trump is the only one who can fix our country.[/QUOTE]
didn't he suggest executing captured muslims, in the same manner as the myth about pershing, as an effective anti-terrorist tactic
[QUOTE=wystan;49804042]
Lol please, many they don't own farms and the like, they make up replaceable labor, and from personal experience most of the Hispanics working are legal anyway, so they are Americans.
[URL]http://www.agcensus.usda.gov/Publications/2012/Online_Resources/Race,_Ethnicity_and_Gender_Profiles/cpd99000.pdf[/URL][/QUOTE]
No? Labor like that isn't as easily replaceable when the conditions are horrendous for basically nothing. There is a reason why farming companies use their labor en masse. Fact is, those illegal immigrants contribute[I]a lot[/I] to the economy. Not only do they work, but a large majority also pay taxes. Not that they are able to use the social services anyway for fear of being caught.
[URL]https://news.vice.com/article/unauthorized-immigrants-paid-100-billion-into-social-security-over-last-decade[/URL]
[QUOTE=wystan;49804042]These people don't deserve to be rewarded with citizenship for coming here and inherently committing a crime in the process, that spits in the face of every legal hardworking immigrant. It's a main issue because you aren't aware of the violence and link this has to cartel violence, this illegal immigration results in American lives lost. The whole situation is a clusterfuck and not an easy fix, and if we can't just fix Mexico's problems, the next best option is preventing Mexico's problem from reaching us.
A better impact on the economy would be nothing but legal workers not trying to duck the system.
Lol please, many they don't own farms and the like, they make up replaceable labor, and from personal experience most of the Hispanics working are legal anyway, so they are Americans.
[URL]http://www.agcensus.usda.gov/Publications/2012/Online_Resources/Race,_Ethnicity_and_Gender_Profiles/cpd99000.pdf[/URL][/QUOTE]...
so why is he not talking about immigration reform? did you read anything i said? anything about the difficulty of immigrating legally?
"a better impact on the economy would be nothing but legal workers not trying to duck the system."
what does this mean? legal or illegal, they have a positive impact on the economy. removing them isn't inherently a positive just because they are illegal. the majority of americans state that there should be a path to legality for undocumented workers, why are you putting words into the mouths of legal immigrants like they are spiteful towards illegals? hard work is hard work. you talk about the base state of the illegality of them but make no mention why they are using illegal methods to enter the country.
"Because the current system makes it nearly impossible for low-skilled
workers to legally and permanently enter the country to work, illegal
entry is the mechanism whereby migrants respond to the lure of jobs in
the United States that pay much more than could be earned at home."
there is a demand for low skilled work in the US, corporations actively exploit this need by hiring illegal immigrants and willingly hire illegal immigrants because it is difficult to legally immigrate.
please please please tell me why donald is making the choice to waste money on a wall, when immigration from mexico has been declining since 2007? why does he not talk about making it easier to legally immigrate. it is impossible for low skill workers (who are in demand by american corps) to immigrate to the US. why is he not talking about changing that. you cannot complain about illegal immigration in the defense of legal immigrants, when the people who have legally immigrated are not the same sort of people who are illegally immigrating. who is going to replace the low wage workers when they are kicked out?
[URL]http://udallcenter.arizona.edu/immigration/publications/fact_sheet_no_3_illegal_immigration.pdf[/URL]
[editline]24th February 2016[/editline]
the cartel violence and money they gain through immigration is possible because low skilled workers have no choice other than to use those illegal means. the cartels are not knocking on peoples doors asking if they want to go to america, the people go to the cartels because they have no other choice, and not all of them are going through the cartels. your points have no basis in reality.
[QUOTE=benzi2k7;49804111]...
so why is he not talking about immigration reform? did you read anything i said? anything about the difficulty of immigrating legally?
"a better impact on the economy would be nothing but legal workers not trying to duck the system."
what does this mean? legal or illegal, they have a positive impact on the economy. removing them isn't inherently a positive just because they are illegal. the majority of americans state that there should be a path to legality for undocumented workers, why are you putting words into the mouths of legal immigrants like they are spiteful towards illegals? hard work is hard work. you talk about the base state of the illegality of them but make no mention why they are using illegal methods to enter the country.
"Because the current system makes it nearly impossible for low-skilled
workers to legally and permanently enter the country to work, illegal
entry is the mechanism whereby migrants respond to the lure of jobs in
the United States that pay much more than could be earned at home."
there is a demand for low skilled work in the US, corporations actively exploit this need by hiring illegal immigrants and willingly hire illegal immigrants because it is difficult to legally immigrate.
please please please tell me why donald is making the choice to waste money on a wall, when immigration from mexico has been declining since 2007? why does he not talk about making it easier to legally immigrate. it is impossible for low skill workers (who are in demand by american corps) to immigrate to the US. why is he not talking about changing that. you cannot complain about illegal immigration in the defense of legal immigrants, when the people who have legally immigrated are not the same sort of people who are illegally immigrating. who is going to replace the low wage workers when they are kicked out?
[URL]http://udallcenter.arizona.edu/immigration/publications/fact_sheet_no_3_illegal_immigration.pdf[/URL]
[B]the cartel violence and money they gain through immigration is possible because low skilled workers have no choice other than to use those illegal means. the cartels are not knocking on peoples doors asking if they want to go to america, the people go to the cartels because they have no other choice, and not all of them are going through the cartels. your points have no basis in reality.[/B]
[editline]24th February 2016[/editline]
the cartel violence and money they gain through immigration is possible because low skilled workers have no choice other than to use those illegal means. the cartels are not knocking on peoples doors asking if they want to go to america, the people go to the cartels because they have no other choice, and not all of them are going through the cartels. your points have no basis in reality.[/QUOTE]
Think about it on principle, a criminal should not be rewarded for "getting away with it", they don't deserve citizenship for coming here illegally. I'm not putting words in their mouths or speaking for them, but just think about it on principle. Removing criminals from this country is inherently positive. What good is a positive impact on the economy if it's source is criminals? Low skilled work can come from anyone.
[quote] the cartel violence and money they gain through immigration is possible because low skilled workers have no choice other than to use those illegal means. the cartels are not knocking on peoples doors asking if they want to go to america, the people go to the cartels because they have no other choice, and not all of them are going through the cartels. your points have no basis in reality.[/quote]
Wow, you really have no idea how this works, go figure. Cartels send people across, sometimes against their will, as drug mules or/with coyotes (people paid to send people across illegally), people do not ask the cartels to send them lmao, I live in a border state, you have literally no understanding of how this works.
seriously, what happens when you kick them all out? is it morally okay to work for slave wages just because those new workers are legal? why not tackle the systems that makes it possible for illegal immigrants to be exploited in america? why not tackle the systems that makes it possible for cartels to exploit humans for monetary gain? why focus the issue on the people who are literally going to your country to work & contribute to the economy, rather than the people who are also doing illegal practices and making so much more money than those workers?
you seem to talk about illegality a lot when talking about the specific immigrants but anyone who is exploiting the workers are a-okay because they're what.. legal citizens??
[editline]24th February 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=wystan;49804140]Think about it on principle, a criminal should not be rewarded for "getting away with it", they don't deserve citizenship for coming here illegally. I'm not putting words in their mouths or speaking for them, but just think about it on principle. Removing criminals from this country is inherently positive. What good is a positive impact on the economy if it's source is criminals? Low skilled work can come from anyone.[/QUOTE][B]they are working for slave wages!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/B] wall street have a positive impact on the economy through illegal practices but trump does not talk about that!!!
they are not being rewarded for 'getting way with it', they are getting rewarded for being hard working people within the united states, with the understanding that they are illegal immigrants because the current system makes it [B]impossible[/B] for them to come through legally. it is nearly impossible for low wage and low skilled workers to come to the united states, yet there is a demand for the corporations.
why are you okay with people working for slave wages, just because they are illegal? will you be willing to work for shit wages, doing incredibly hard work, as a legal citizen? does that make it more okay? does that make the exploitation more okay just because it has a legal basis?
"Low skilled work can come from anyone."
how can you be so up in arms about the illegality of the workers and then be fine with the illegality of the exploitation and slave usage by the agricultural industry? illegal immigrants do not exist in a vacuum, they are tied to the very foundation and economy of the united states. the people they do work for have a legal basis yet that does not mean it is not right. [B]why is he not talking about the exploitation?[/B]
[editline]24th February 2016[/editline]
"Cartels send people across, sometimes against their will, as drug mules or/with coyotes (people paid to send people across illegally)"
holy fucking shit we are talking about illegal immigration for the reason of finding work in america, as low skilled workers. jesus christ dude.
[url]http://udallcenter.arizona.edu/immigration/publications/fact_sheet_no_3_illegal_immigration.pdf[/url]
please read this!!!!! there's actual facts in here, you've talked twice now about your own personal experiences!!!!!!!!!!!
It is not impossible, it's difficult, and it's meant to be. Hence why I have such love for legal immigrants, they [I]want[/I] to be here and become Americans. You keep vaguely talking about the big boogeyman of corporations I'd like to know where you're pulling that from.
"Between 1996 and 2000, the U.S. economy created over 14 million new jobs, while during the same period, total population growth (including immigration) was just over 12 million people"
"Approximately 20 percent of the workforce in the service, production, and construction industries is immigrants."
"U.S. unemployment rates have remained low in spite of an infl ux of about 1.8 million immigrants per year between 2001 and 2005."
if not for the reform of the immigration system who are going to take these low skilled jobs? when the majority of americans are unwilling to do this work because they are not low-skilled.
[editline]24th February 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=wystan;49804155]It is not impossible, it's difficult, and it's meant to be. Hence why I have such love for legal immigrants, they [I]want[/I] to be here and become Americans. You keep vaguely talking about the big boogeyman of corporations I'd like to know where you're pulling that from.[/QUOTE]why is it supposed to be diffucult.. it's more difficult than it's ever been yet there's more of a demand for low-skilled workers than ever before, which america cannot provide. i said it is nearly impossible, and that is a fact.
we are talking about low skilled workers, the legal immigrants are not low skilled workers, they have families or high skilled degrees. they are irrelevant to the issue we are talking about.
20% of the workforce in service/production/contruction are immigrants, who are those people hiring them if not corporations? it is not a boogeyman, i am stating literal facts.
[editline]24th February 2016[/editline]
i keep sending you links to literal papers, with actual statistics yet you are saying im talking vaguely? you have one point and one point only: that they are illegal. you are not willing to talk about the facts of why it is hard for low skilled workers to immigrate to the US, not just hard but nearly impossible as stated by the majority of studies on the causes of illegal immigration.
[QUOTE=benzi2k7;49804167]"Between 1996 and 2000, the U.S. economy created over 14 million new jobs, while during the same period, total population growth (including immigration) was just over 12 million people"
"Approximately 20 percent of the workforce in the service, production, and construction industries is immigrants."
"U.S. unemployment rates have remained low in spite of an infl ux of about 1.8 million immigrants per year between 2001 and 2005."
if not for the reform of the immigration system who are going to take these low skilled jobs? when the majority of americans are unwilling to do this work because they are not low-skilled.[/QUOTE]
Is this data talking about legal immigrants? Americans aren't as lazy as people like to think, low-skill jobs are filled with high-school students and undergrads. Filling low skill jobs is not an issue, I worked my share of shit jobs throughout highschool and college, and most of my peers had started working earlier than I.
when the wall is put up and all the illegals are sent back, who is going to replace the low skilled workers when it is literally impossible to replace them with americans due to the lack of low skilled workers, and the fact that americans are not willing to work for slave wages.
how are you going to get the amount of legal immigration you need if you do not reform the system that makes it impossible for those low skilled workers to come here legally?
[editline]24th February 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=wystan;49804187]Is this data talking about legal immigrants? Americans aren't as lazy as people like to think, low-skill jobs are filled with high-school students and undergrads. Filling low skill jobs is not an issue, I worked my share of shit jobs throughout highschool and college, and most of my peers had started working earlier than I.[/QUOTE]high school students and undergrads are not low skilled workers!!!!!!!! they are not working on farms, they are not picking oranges, they are not doing menial labour for low wages, how can you not understand this?! the date is talking about illegal immigration, read the paper dude. jesus christ.
i am not calling americans lazy, i am saying there is a demand for low skilled workers (not high school graduates, not undergrads)
americans have every right to expect a certain quality of jobs if they are high school graduates, if they are undergrads. we are talking about the agriculture industry. we are talking about low wages. we are talking about near slavery conditions. we are talking about exploitation. these are the issues you have to talk about.
[QUOTE=benzi2k7;49804188]when the wall is put up and all the illegals are sent back, who is going to replace the low skilled workers when it is literally impossible to replace them with americans due to the lack of low skilled workers, and the fact that americans are not willing to work for slave wages.
how are you going to get the amount of legal immigration you need if you do not reform the system that makes it impossible for those low skilled workers to come here legally?
[editline]24th February 2016[/editline]
high school students and undergrads are not low skilled workers!!!!!!!! they are not working on farms, they are not picking oranges, they are not doing menial labour for low wages, how can you not understand this?! the date is talking about illegal immigration, read the paper dude. jesus christ.[/QUOTE]
I did. I worked Warehouse jobs, I worked Construction in Texas heat, I worked "landscaping" jobs digging holes and trenches. How can YOU speak for Americans?
[QUOTE=wystan;49804195]I did. I worked Warehouse jobs, I worked Construction in Texas heat, I worked "landscaping" jobs digging holes and trenches. How can YOU speak for Americans?[/QUOTE]you are one person. there are not enough low skilled workers in america without immigrants to take the jobs. [B]there is not enough population growth to keep up with the demand for low skilled jobs.[/B]
i am not speaking for americans, i am speaking for the people you are attacking based on their legal basis even though they are hard working people who are openly paid low wages by their employers. you don't think we have issues with the treatment of illegal immigrants in my country too? even though they have a positive net impact on our economy they still get the same sort of rhetoric that you and trump are spouting. i am trying to talk to you because i find it upsetting when you are attacking people who are contributing to your economy, who are helping your country, who had no choice but to illegaly immigrate because your system makes it [B]impossible for low skilled workers to legally get into the country[/B].
[QUOTE=wystan;49804042]These people don't deserve to be rewarded with citizenship for coming here and inherently committing a crime in the process, that spits in the face of every legal hardworking immigrant. It's a main issue because you aren't aware of the violence and link this has to cartel violence, this illegal immigration results in American lives lost. The whole situation is a clusterfuck and not an easy fix, and if we can't just fix Mexico's problems, the next best option is preventing Mexico's problem from reaching us.
A better impact on the economy would be nothing but legal workers not trying to duck the system.
Lol please, many they don't own farms and the like, they make up replaceable labor, and from personal experience most of the Hispanics working are legal anyway, so they are Americans.
[url]http://www.agcensus.usda.gov/Publications/2012/Online_Resources/Race,_Ethnicity_and_Gender_Profiles/cpd99000.pdf[/url][/QUOTE]
I wasn't talking about owning the farms.
These statistics are about operators and if anything it shows that Latinos are underrepresented
[QUOTE=benzi2k7;49804204]you are one person. there are not enough low skilled workers in america without immigrants to take the jobs. [B]there is not enough population growth to keep up with the demand for low skilled jobs.[/B]
i am not speaking for americans, i am speaking for the people you are attacking based on their legal basis even though they are hard working people who are openly paid low wages by their employers. you don't think we have issues with the treatment of illegal immigrants in my country too? even though they have a positive net impact on our economy they still get the same sort of rhetoric that you and trump are spouting. i am trying to talk to you because i find it upsetting when you are attacking people who are contributing to your economy, who are helping your country, who had no choice but to illegaly immigrate because your system makes it [B]impossible for low skilled workers to legally get into the country[/B].[/QUOTE]
You're 100% correct about our population growth and it is worrying and needs to be addressed. But there are ways to work here legally without illegally coming here (work visas and the like). And importing labor is already something I'm uneasy about, but sadly any developed nation today people decided to stop having children at a rate that keeps the nation growing. Frankly the best way to stop all this is fix Mexico, but there is no way we can do that realistically. Annexing them isn't an option unfortunately.
"keep the nation growing" oh my god you are also the Trump dude who supports waterboarding aren't you?
[QUOTE=wystan;49804231]You're 100% correct about our population growth and it is worrying and needs to be addressed. But there are ways to work here legally without illegally coming here (work visas and the like). And importing labor is already something I'm uneasy about, but sadly any developed nation today people decided to stop having children at a rate that keeps the nation growing. Frankly the best way to stop all this is fix Mexico, but there is no way we can do that realistically. Annexing them isn't an option unfortunately.[/QUOTE]you want some fuckin facts bro here u go
"There were 5.6 million Mexican unauthorized immigrants living in the U.S. in 2014, [B]down from 6.4 million in 2009[/B], according to preliminary Pew Research Center estimates."
why build a wall?
"Nearly half of the 12 million-plus illegal aliens in America arrived legally with temporary, non-immigrant visas. The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) estimates that a 'substantial' percentage of America’s illegal population is made up of visa overstays — their estimates range from 27 to 57 percent"
why build a wall?
"The vast majority of farm workers – 78% according to the most recent National Agricultural Workers
Survey– are foreign-born and crossed a border to get here."
how are you going to replace those workers? are americans willing to put up with earning on average $10,000 - $12,000 a year? are you okay with that?
"It is estimated that at least 6 out of 10 of our country’s farm workers are undocumented"
where are you gonna get those replacements, willing to work for shit pay? when they're coming out of high school or at college? you expect them to do this work? that is morally wrong.
"Frankly the best way to stop all this is fix Mexico"
maybe stop implementing trade deals like NAFTA that flood Mexico with american corn forcing them to come north to work? you literally just admitted that there is no way that americans can keep up with the demand of low skilled jobs. how does kicking out all the low skilled workers solve this at all!? how can you solve this issue without importing labor? americans are not willing, and should not have to, work in low wage jobs when they are high school graduates or at college. it is sad for the undocumented workers also that they get paid so little but they are willing, so why not make use of them while also improve labor and pay standards?! why not put effort into benevolent options rather than build a wall that solves nothing. the low skilled workers are [B]needed [/B]and it not possible to get those low skilled workers from america without exploiting the lower class.
[URL="http://nfwm-yaya.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/pdf_Timeline-of-Agricultural-Labor.pdf"]
http://nfwm-yaya.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/pdf_Timeline-of-Agricultural-Labor.pdf[/URL]
[URL]http://nfwm.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/12.9.13-h2a-short-farm-workers-and-migration.pdf[/URL]
[URL]http://nfwm.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/h2a-presentation-final-short-12.9.13-.pdf[/URL]
He wants more babies to keep the nation growing joke's on you.
[editline]24th February 2016[/editline]
wystan in case you did't know a shrinking birth rate is what happens in all developing countries because people don't need children as an insurance for late age
same with high income jobs and academics
hint: it's not a decision against the nation, it's a very personal one.
[QUOTE=Killuah;49804251]He wants more babies to keep the nation growing joke's on you.[/QUOTE]
Yea, I don't want to end up like Germany.
[QUOTE=wystan;49804257]Yea, I don't want to end up like Germany.[/QUOTE]have you given up on arguing your point now and just turning to insulting (????) other peoples countries, there's a 0.5% difference in growth rate between the two countries. both are issues, germany isn't talking about buildin a fuckin wall though
[QUOTE=wystan;49804257]Yea, I don't want to end up like Germany.[/QUOTE]
that's too cheap dude. just too cheap.
Come on. Think of something better.
[editline]24th February 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=benzi2k7;49804266]have you given up on arguing your point now and just turning to insulting (????) other peoples countries, there's a 0.5% difference in growth rate between the two countries. both are issues, germany isn't talking about buildin a fuckin wall though[/QUOTE]
Actually we sort of did but when one guy calculated the costs the Anti-Migration people shifted from "we have to keep them out " to "Turkey and Greece have to keep them out"
Yes, daddy Trump will be President soon.
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