Nevada Republican Caucus: Projection Trump won - Polidicks

[QUOTE=benzi2k7;49804266]have you given up on arguing your point now and just turning to insulting (????) other peoples countries, there's a 0.5% difference in growth rate between the two countries. both are issues, germany isn't talking about buildin a fuckin wall though[/QUOTE] They could sure use one. But I don't want to compare the situation in Europe to illegal immigration in the US, those two situations are very very different and not really comparable, that isn't fair. And no I haven't, but I would rather a nation without millions of illegal immigrants, I want people who came here to become Americans.

also one point was that the farmers at the border didn't support the fence and there is no leagal means of disowning them which is hilarious because the farmers depend on cheap labor too the whole industry just released a warning of keeping foreigners out a few days ago, the transportation industry is up in arms about border controls basically everyone in economy is pro-migration yet the anti-migration people try to raise economy as a valid point somehow [editline]24th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=wystan;49804276]They could sure use one. But I don't want to compare the situation in Europe to illegal immigration in the US, those two situations are very very different and not really comparable, that isn't fair. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=wystan;49804257]Yea, I don't want to end up like Germany.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=wystan;49804276]They could sure use one. And no I haven't, but I would rather a nation without millions of illegal immigrants, I want people who came here to become Americans.[/QUOTE]... then why not reform the immigration system and give a path to citizenship for people who are essential to the lifeblood of many industries within your country okay, remove all the illegal immigrants from your country. please tell me what happens then, what happens to the jobs that cannot be filled? you are seemingly willing to spend a stupid amount of money on a wall that will solve literally none of those issues yet aren't willing to help people become citizens, who are there illegally yes but only because it is nearly impossible for them (as low skilled workers) to go to your country legally. how do you help immigrants come here legally if you do not reform the immigration system? how do you fill those jobs? americans aren't gonna look at that big wall and finally feel safe against the immigrants and willingly take slave wages.

[QUOTE=wystan;49804276] I want people who came here to become Americans.[/QUOTE] [quote]Think about it on principle, a criminal should not be rewarded for "getting away with it", they don't deserve citizenship for coming here illegally. I'm not putting words in their mouths or speaking for them, but just think about it on principle. Removing criminals from this country is inherently positive. What good is a positive impact on the economy if it's source is criminals? Low skilled work can come from anyone.[/quote]

i don't understand you, you seemingly agree with the issues that america is facing but present no solutions for the problems?

[QUOTE=Killuah;49804278]also one point was that the farmers at the border didn't support the fence and there is no leagal means of disowning them which is hilarious because the farmers depend on cheap labor too the whole industry just released a warning of keeping foreigners out a few days ago, the transportation industry is up in arms about border controls basically everyone in economy is pro-migration yet the anti-migration people try to raise economy as a valid point somehow [editline]24th February 2016[/editline][/QUOTE] I was talking about the population growth, and you're the one who mocked me for wanting to keep the nation growing, then tried to bring in an opinion I had from an entirely different thread that doesn't pertain to this issue at all.

[QUOTE=wystan;49804294]I was talking about the population growth, and you're the one who mocked me for wanting to keep the nation growing, then tried to bring in an opinion I had from an entirely different thread that doesn't pertain to this issue at all.[/QUOTE]he was not mocking you, he was talking about your complete lack of understanding in why there is low population growth in your country and why that creates the need to import labour into your country, while also wanting to block off that source of low skilled labour.

[QUOTE=benzi2k7;49804301]he was not mocking you, he was talking about your complete lack of understanding in why there is low population growth in your country and why that creates the need to import labour into your country, while also wanting to block off that source of low skilled labour.[/QUOTE] I don't have a lack of understanding on the matter, but developed nations weren't always this way, this is a recent trend, now developing nations and third-world countries have always had high birthrates, but that's due to multiple factors. Anyways, low-skill labor can be replaced with young (obviously cant cover all the illegals) people or automation (which would reduce the number of jobs in that field admittedly), but the work is getting done. Especially if we stick with the agriculture department, which is constantly requiring less people to actually do the farming.

Some dude speaking about the "growth of the nation" while also supporting torture and "the mexicans are sending rapists across the border" Trump next to the US flag above the new WTC is just ringing some alarms here I hope you understand that. My first hint was when you didn't understand between percentages of voters or who is actually voting here to spin it into some "look Trump is not racist!" post when nobody previously even mentioned that though [QUOTE=wystan;49803160]Trump got 46% of the Hispanic vote. That is amazing, he is such a super racist huh?[/QUOTE] [editline]24th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=wystan;49804304]I don't have a lack of understanding on the matter, but developed nations weren't always this way, this is a recent trend, now developing nations and third-world countries have always had high birthrates, but that's due to multiple factors. Anyways, low-skill labor can be replaced with young (obviously cant cover all the illegals) people or automation (which would reduce the number of jobs in that field admittedly), but the work is getting done. Especially if we stick with the agriculture department, which is constantly requiring less people to actually do the farming.[/QUOTE] Dude you didn't even understand percentages. Now you suggest that the most industrialized area in all of the world should stick to agriculture.

[QUOTE=Killuah;49804311]Some dude speaking about the "growth of the nation" while also supporting torture and "the mexicans are sending rapists across the border" Trump next to the US flag above the new WTC is just ringing some alarms here I hope you understand that. My first hint was when you didn't understand between percentages of voters or who is actually voting here to spin it into some "look Trump is not racist!" post when nobody previously even mentioned that though [editline]24th February 2016[/editline] Dude you didn't even understand percentages.[/QUOTE] I fail to see the bad in wanting my nation to grow? My views on torture are irrelevant here. I wasn't trying to spin anything, Trump literally got a large plurality of the Hispanic republican voters, which was worth noting. [editline]24th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Killuah;49804311]Some dude speaking about the "growth of the nation" while also supporting torture and "the mexicans are sending rapists across the border" Trump next to the US flag above the new WTC is just ringing some alarms here I hope you understand that. My first hint was when you didn't understand between percentages of voters or who is actually voting here to spin it into some "look Trump is not racist!" post when nobody previously even mentioned that though [editline]24th February 2016[/editline] Dude you didn't even understand percentages. [B]Now you suggest that the most industrialized area in all of the world should stick to agriculture,[/B][/QUOTE] What. We had been talking about the agricultural sector for awhile now. When I said "stick" I meant using that as an example, sorry if I was unclear.

[QUOTE=wystan;49804304]I don't have a lack of understanding on the matter, but developed nations weren't always this way, this is a recent trend, now developing nations and third-world countries have always had high birthrates, but that's due to multiple factors. Anyways, low-skill labor can be replaced with young (obviously cant cover all the illegals) people or automation (which would reduce the number of jobs in that field admittedly), but the work is getting done. Especially if we stick with the agriculture department, which is constantly requiring less people do actually do the farming.[/QUOTE]the young aren't low skilled workers, if they are in college or have graduated high school they should not be doing low skill work! talking about automation is all well and good but that is not happening tomorrow, the removal of 11 million people from america does not line up with the time line of them being replaced by automation. yes, we could replace it with automation but that is not done over night. that is not done in the span of a year or even 10 years or 20 years. donald trump is talking about becoming president and then removing those immigrants within his term, those jobs cannot be replaced by automation so easily. the young people of developed nations should not have to live on low wages, doing low skill work. the population problem is a recent trend because... the quality of life increasing, increased family planning and the fact that children in developed nations take a long time to leave the home is.... a recent trend!! they are connected!

[QUOTE=benzi2k7;49804330]the young aren't low skilled workers, if they are in college or have graduated high school they should not be doing low skill work! talking about automation is all well and good but that is not happening tomorrow, the removal of 11 million people from america does not line up with the time line of them being replaced by automation. yes, we could replace it with automation but that is not done over night. that is not done in the span of a year or even 10 years or 20 years. donald trump is talking about becoming president and then removing those immigrants within his term, those jobs cannot be replaced by automation so easily. the young people of developed nations should not have to live on low wages, doing low skill work. the population problem is a recent trend because... the quality of life increasing, increased family planning and the fact that children in developed nations take a long time to leave the home is.... a recent trend!! they are connected![/QUOTE] How are the young not unskilled workers?

"which is constantly requiring less people to actually do the farming." less people = 78% of farm workers being foreign born who come over the border.. downward trends are not overnight. you cannot use that line of reasoning to support removing those workers because it does not line up with reality. [editline]24th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=wystan;49804333]How are the young not unskilled workers?[/QUOTE]because they're high school graduates or in college wtf!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and there are less and less young people!! what happens when those young people get old? you gonna keep them doing the same job? what if they don't want to work on farms for the rest of their life. there are not enough young people to replace those jobs, and you seemingly do not want to improve immigration to help fill those jobs so what the hell is your solution dude [editline]24th February 2016[/editline] whats the point of putting a child through school, high school and college if you're just going to put them to work doing low-skilled work... jesus

[QUOTE=wystan;49804324]I fail to see the bad in wanting my nation to grow? My views on torture are irrelevant here. I wasn't trying to spin anything, Trump literally got a large plurality of the Hispanic republican voters, which was worth noting. [editline]24th February 2016[/editline] What. We had been talking about the agricultural sector for awhile now. When I said "stick" I meant using that as an example, sorry if I was unclear.[/QUOTE] Hispanic republican voters is different to "the Hispanic vote". Missinterpreted the second part. Sorry.

[QUOTE=benzi2k7;49804247]you want some fuckin facts bro here u go "There were 5.6 million Mexican unauthorized immigrants living in the U.S. in 2014, [B]down from 6.4 million in 2009[/B], according to preliminary Pew Research Center estimates." why build a wall? "Nearly half of the 12 million-plus illegal aliens in America arrived legally with temporary, non-immigrant visas. The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) estimates that a 'substantial' percentage of America’s illegal population is made up of visa overstays — their estimates range from 27 to 57 percent" why build a wall? "The vast majority of farm workers – 78% according to the most recent National Agricultural Workers Survey– are foreign-born and crossed a border to get here." how are you going to replace those workers? are americans willing to put up with earning on average $10,000 - $12,000 a year? are you okay with that? "It is estimated that at least 6 out of 10 of our country’s farm workers are undocumented" where are you gonna get those replacements, willing to work for shit pay? when they're coming out of high school or at college? you expect them to do this work? that is morally wrong. "Frankly the best way to stop all this is fix Mexico" maybe stop implementing trade deals like NAFTA that flood Mexico with american corn forcing them to come north to work? you literally just admitted that there is no way that americans can keep up with the demand of low skilled jobs. how does kicking out all the low skilled workers solve this at all!? how can you solve this issue without importing labor? americans are not willing, and should not have to, work in low wage jobs when they are high school graduates or at college. it is sad for the undocumented workers also that they get paid so little but they are willing, so why not make use of them while also improve labor and pay standards?! why not put effort into benevolent options rather than build a wall that solves nothing. the low skilled workers are [B]needed [/B]and it not possible to get those low skilled workers from america without exploiting the lower class. [URL="http://nfwm-yaya.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/pdf_Timeline-of-Agricultural-Labor.pdf"] http://nfwm-yaya.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/pdf_Timeline-of-Agricultural-Labor.pdf[/URL] [URL]http://nfwm.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/12.9.13-h2a-short-farm-workers-and-migration.pdf[/URL] [URL]http://nfwm.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/h2a-presentation-final-short-12.9.13-.pdf[/URL][/QUOTE] it should have been an immediate red flag when wystan didn't answer any of your questions, nor address any of the points you raised to him it's fairly obvious that his opinion on illegal immigrants is not being motivated by facts or figures

[QUOTE=benzi2k7;49804337]"which is constantly requiring less people to actually do the farming." less people = 78% of farm workers being foreign born who come over the border.. downward trends are not overnight. you cannot use that line of reasoning to support removing those workers because it does not line up with reality. [editline]24th February 2016[/editline] because they're high school graduates or in college wtf!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/QUOTE] Have you worked a day in your life? What skilled jobs are a highschool student or undergrad qualified for? Highschoolers work entry-level low-skill jobs for a reason, that is why you see so many as Wait staff, dishwashers/busboys/prep cooks (the food industry is full of them), general laborers, when I was in high school I held multiple shitty low level jobs like my classmates. Undergrads typically work the same type, the lucky ones managed to get some internship that pertained to their degree path.

[QUOTE=wystan;49804355]Have you worked a day in your life? What skilled jobs are a highschool student or undergrad qualified for? Highschoolers work entry-level low-skill jobs for a reason, that is why you see so many as Wait staff, dishwashers/busboys/prep cooks (the food industry is full of them), general laborers, when I was in high school I held multiple shitty low level jobs like my classmates. Undergrads typically work the same type, the lucky ones managed to get some internship that pertained to their degree path.[/QUOTE]those are not the type of jobs that are filled with undocumented workers.. undocumented workers earn 41.8% less than their legal counterparts, you want young americans getting paid that much? [QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49804352]it should have been an immediate red flag when wystan didn't answer any of your questions, nor address any of the points you raised to him it's fairly obvious that his opinion on illegal immigrants is not being motivated by facts or figures[/QUOTE]i get to learn more stuff by researching figures n shi, does nothing but make him look sillier :^)

[QUOTE=wystan;49804355]Have you worked a day in your life? What skilled jobs are a highschool student or undergrad qualified for? Highschoolers work entry-level low-skill jobs for a reason, that is why you see so many as Wait staff, dishwashers/busboys/prep cooks (the food industry is full of them), general laborers, when I was in high school I held multiple shitty low level jobs like my classmates. Undergrads typically work the same type, the lucky ones managed to get some internship that pertained to their degree path.[/QUOTE] Are you now arguing that people should be doing jobs they are obviously overqualified for because... well because you did and because they are forced to because of the shitty employment tactics? Your argument is basically "it should be so because it is so" It's exactly your mindset of this being somehow ok that enables this shit. Good job. I hope you support unions at least?

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49804352]it should have been an immediate red flag when wystan didn't answer any of your questions, nor address any of the points you raised to him it's fairly obvious that his opinion on illegal immigrants is not being motivated by facts or figures[/QUOTE] Did you see the source that came from? Please. I'm motivated more by principle also.

[QUOTE=wystan;49804366]Did you see the source that came from? Please. I'm motivated more by principle also.[/QUOTE]...the Pew Research Center? The Department of Homeland Security..? did you say you're more motivated by principle than facts..?

[QUOTE=Killuah;49804364]Are you now arguing that people should be doing jobs they are obviously overqualified for because... well because you did and because they are forced to because of the shitty employment tactics? Your argument is basically "it should be so because it is so" It's exactly your mindset of this being somehow ok that enables this shit. Good job. I hope you support unions at least?[/QUOTE] I have no idea what you are trying to say, please clarify.

[QUOTE=wystan;49804366]I'm motivated more by principle also.[/QUOTE] "I am motivated by my motivation, I have done contruction jobs, have YOU ever worked? Numbers and facts do not matter to me" I think the discussion is over boys.

[QUOTE=benzi2k7;49804372]...the Pew Research Center? The Department of Homeland Security..?[/QUOTE] It was this faith based organization which a couple of cute power points with vague sources.

[QUOTE=wystan;49804379]It was this faith based organization which a couple of cute power points with vague sources.[/QUOTE] "I am motivated more by my principle" *mocks sources as faith based* Are you a real person?

[QUOTE=wystan;49804379]It was this faith based organization which a couple of cute power points with vague sources.[/QUOTE]and their sources were from............??? are you denying the average wages? are you denying the makeup of the farm industry? the faith based aspect is because they hold Christian values and are seeing facts & statistics that conflict with their morality. just because they are coming from a religion viewpoint doesn't make the facts any less real lmao

I'm saying all the "sources" listed in the powerpoints weren't links to anything, just name dropping a source without anything specific to follow and trace back to. Literally anyone can do that and fabricate data. I still don't see how you think Highschoolers and undergrads aren't suitable for low-skill labor, that's what you do, you starting working in high school and college, and as a student, you aren't qualified to do much, some do clerical work, and some do labor, the same labor illegals do.

[QUOTE=wystan;49804392]I'm saying all the "sources" listed in the powerpoints weren't links to anything, just name dropping a source without anything specific to follow and trace back to. Literally anyone can do that and fabricate data.[/QUOTE]the National Agricultural Workers Survey (NAWS)-- a report published by the U.S. Department of Labor is a vague source?

Ok it's cool you are mentioning this now after someone called you out on not responding to the post. [editline]24th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=benzi2k7;49804395]the National Agricultural Workers Survey (NAWS)-- a report published by the U.S. Department of Labor is a vague source?[/QUOTE] Dude he just said that facts matter to him less than his "motivation"

[QUOTE=Killuah;49804396]Ok it's cool you are mentioning this now after someone called you out on not responding to the post. [editline]24th February 2016[/editline] Dude he just said that facts matter to him less than his "motivation"[/QUOTE]i like seeing his responses lol

[QUOTE=benzi2k7;49804395]the National Agricultural Workers Survey (NAWS)-- a report published by the U.S. Department of Labor is a vague source?[/QUOTE] If you just say that's where it came from without a link or title of the report/data/etc, yes. Imagine if I just said "All illegals are rapists and murderers" Source: Pew Research Would you accept that?