Nevada Republican Caucus: Projection Trump won - Polidicks

[QUOTE=benzi2k7;49804750]how can you not see the difference between you and an undocumented worker, they are not in a position to work part-time let's take the states that have the largest % of undocumented workers in their labor force and what people would be paid if they were replaced by legal citizens Nevada (10%): working [B]40 hours[/B] a week at minimum wage of $8.25, $15,840~ a year. California (9%): working [B]40 hours[/B] a week at minimum wage of $10, $19,200~ a year. Texas (9%): working [B]40 hours[/B] a week at minimum wage of $7.25, $13,920~ a year. New Jersey (8%): working [B]40 hours[/B] a week at minimum wage of $8.38, $16,089~ a year. with undocumented workers working longer hours than the average american, how are you going to make up with the lack of low skilled workers with high schoolers and college students for such a low amount of money? even less because they are presumably going to be working part-time?? and undocumented workers would be lucky to even get paid minimum wage & yet they are working longer hours.. you see how your plan doesn't add up? now tell me, how do you manage to replace undocumented workers without forcing high school students to live on terrible wages & work hours that they do not have?[/QUOTE] 40 Hours isn't longer than the average American to be clear. For students yea almost certainly. But almost always these students aren't quite living on their own, especially if still in High School, so they are contributing to the labor force without having to pay rent and utilities and the whole cost of living, most college students have a family support system that sent them there, not all, there are some very determined students with more work ethic than I can imagine that juggle fulltime jobs and school, but most students aren't hit with the full pressures of supporting themselves and paying the full cost of living. As for replacing, you aren't forcing students to "live" on terrible wages, me and my peers were all very aware of how little we were making and why, we didn't complain because we all understood. And again automation gets further along each year.

[QUOTE=wystan;49804804]40 Hours isn't longer than the average American to be clear. For students yea almost certainly. But almost always these students aren't quite living on their own, especially if still in High School, so they are contributing to the labor force without having to pay rent and utilities and the whole cost of living, most college students have a family support system that sent them there, not all, there are some very determined students with more work ethic than I can imagine that juggle fulltime jobs and school, but most students aren't hit with the full pressures of supporting themselves and paying the full cost of living. As for replacing, you aren't forcing students to "live" on terrible wages, me and my peers were all very aware of how little we were making and why, we didn't complain because we all understood. And again automation gets further along each year.[/QUOTE]i did not say that 40 hours is longer than the average american, i'm using that as a basis for full-time work. actually you bringing up that point shows even more issues with where you want to get the unskilled labour from, how do college students work 40+ hours a week while also being at college? it's around 46 hours a week and undocumented workers do more than that. how do high school students and college students do the 9 hours of work a day done by undocumented workers? they are not replacing the usual student jobs, they are replacing[B] full time industry jobs[/B]. where are you getting the unskilled labor from, it is [B]impossible[/B] for the high school students & college students to make up for the loss of labor caused by removing undocumented workers.

[QUOTE=benzi2k7;49804819]i did not say that 40 hours is longer than the average american, i'm using that as a basis for full-time work. it's around 46 hours a week and undocumented workers do more than than. how do high school students and college students do the 9 hours of work a day done by undocumented workers? we are getting so close bro[/QUOTE] [b]with undocumented workers working longer hours than the average american,[/b], you certainly implied it. Also I don't understand your question. I worked a graveyard shift job while in school that was over 8 hours? But I imagine you weren't looking for a personal example of me doing it.

[QUOTE=wystan;49804837][B]with undocumented workers working longer hours than the average american,[/B], you certainly implied it. Also I don't understand your question. I worked a graveyard shift job while in school that was over 8 hours? But I imagine you weren't looking for a personal example of me doing it.[/QUOTE]no, i implied that undocumented workers work longer hours than the average american (who work around 46 hours) which is true. i said 40 hours as a base state for yearly salary working full time @ minimum wage. where are you going to find 8 million high school and college grads to work 9+ hours a day, 5 days a week at a minimum? also we are not talking about a graveyard shift job, we are talking about daytime full time labor that you have to replace.

[QUOTE=wystan;49804758]You've got no evidence that they don't. Has it been tried before? If anything I would think it's easier to "defend" against small groups of people than an army.[/QUOTE] Honestly building a wall is useless. It requires physical upkeep and repair, can easily be tunneled under or climbed over. If you REALLY wanted to combat illegal immigration over the border, you would support hiring tons and tons more border guards. Possibly invest in security systems like cameras and sensors, plus drones (though these can be more expensive and possibly unneeded compared to border patrol riding around in a jeep). If Trump meant "build a wall" as a metaphor for these kinds of things, I can understand, but the reality is, he's very fucking serious about building [I]literally[/I] a wall as if it's actually going to do something. [url=https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1600&bih=799&q=US+border+wall&oq=US+border+wall&gs_l=img.3..0j0i5i30l2j0i8i30j0i24l3.943.3081.0.3264.14.14.0.0.0.0.176.1560.2j11.13.0....0...1.1.64.img..1.13.1555.ppVQTQu3I8A]Not to mention there already is a fucking wall on the border.[/url]

[QUOTE=benzi2k7;49804852]no, i implied that undocumented workers work longer hours than the average american (who work around 46 hours) which is true. i said 40 hours as a base state for yearly salary working full time @ minimum wage. where are you going to find 8 million high school and college grads to work 9+ hours a day, 5 days a week at a minimum? also we are not talking about a graveyard shift job, we are talking about daytime full time labor that you have to replace.[/QUOTE] We're a nation of 320 million people, I don't think it would be that hard to replace 8 million. They may not all be high school students or undergrads, plenty of "average people" work these jobs too. [editline]24th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;49804854]Honestly building a wall is useless. It requires physical upkeep and repair, can easily be tunneled under or climbed over. If you REALLY wanted to combat illegal immigration over the border, you would support hiring tons and tons more border guards. Possibly invest in security systems like cameras and sensors, plus drones (though these can be more expensive and possibly unneeded compared to border patrol riding around in a jeep). If Trump meant "build a wall" as a metaphor for these kinds of things, I can understand, but the reality is, he's very fucking serious about building [I]literally[/I] a wall as if it's actually going to do something. [URL="https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1600&bih=799&q=US+border+wall&oq=US+border+wall&gs_l=img.3..0j0i5i30l2j0i8i30j0i24l3.943.3081.0.3264.14.14.0.0.0.0.176.1560.2j11.13.0....0...1.1.64.img..1.13.1555.ppVQTQu3I8A"]Not to mention there already is a fucking wall on the border.[/URL][/QUOTE] Barely qualifies as a wall in some areas :v: [editline]24th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49804717]that is not a reason why you think a wall would work for the american-mexico border and you don't see the difference between immigrants and an attacking army? seriously history shows that walls basically never prevent immigration, they might deter a military aggressor (who has different goals, different requirements for crossing the wall) but you're not talking about armies, you're talking about groups of people often small in size you've got no evidence that walls actually work to prevent immigration, none at all [editline]24th February 2016[/editline] cool! Here's an article about why the wall is so logistically implausible too! [URL]http://www.nationalmemo.com/an-engineer-explains-why-trumps-wall-is-so-implausible[/URL][/QUOTE] Walls are meant to do the same thing regardless of context, it being a military defensive structure vs a physical border to keep people out doesn't make much of a difference.

[QUOTE=wystan;49804667]I'm not going to spoonfeed you a list of walls. Explain to me how it isn't feasible. Walls are not complex structures.[/QUOTE] Are you Donald Trump?

[QUOTE=Killuah;49804889]Are you Donald Trump?[/QUOTE] I wish man.

[QUOTE=wystan;49804874] Barely qualifies as a wall in some areas :v: [/QUOTE] Good job ignoring literally all the other parts of my post.

[QUOTE=wystan;49804667]I'm not going to spoonfeed you a list of walls. Explain to me how it isn't feasible. Walls are not complex structures.[/QUOTE] wait are you literally thinking of "building a wall " as of just putting a ginormous structure of bricks there?

[QUOTE=wystan;49804874]We're a nation of 320 million people, I don't think it would be that hard to replace 8 million. They may not all be high school students or undergrads, plenty of "average people" work these jobs too.[/QUOTE]with an unemployment rate of 4.9% (which isn't entirely accurate but still) that leaves you 15,582,000 people to replace those jobs. are you saying that at least 8 million of those people are able to move to where the jobs needed to be replaced, can live on a minimum wage or yearly salary that is below the living costs of where those jobs need to be replaced, or are willing to be underemployed? can you not see how that is an issue? with the deportation of 11 million people from the united states, what happens to those jobs & industries?

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;49804894]Good job ignoring literally all the other parts of my post.[/QUOTE] Probably isn't too difficult to prevent climbing over or under, would just take some creativity. I agree with upping all the other means of border security, why not do both? Redundancies aren't a bad thing.

[QUOTE=wystan;49804907]Probably isn't too difficult to prevent climbing over or under, would just take some creativity. I agree with upping all the other means of border security, why not do both? Redundancies aren't a bad thing.[/QUOTE]the majority of undocumented workers are travelling to the united states legally, how does building a wall prevent this rather than working on the issue of them finding it impossible to continue a legal stay in united states due to issues within the immigration system.

[QUOTE=benzi2k7;49804903]with an unemployment rate of 4.9% (which isn't entirely accurate but still) that leaves you 15,582,000 people to replace those jobs. are you saying that at least 8 million of those people are able to move to where the jobs needed to be replaced, can live on a minimum wage or yearly salary that is below the living costs of where those jobs need to be replaced, or are willing to be underemployed? can you not see how that is an issue? with the deportation of 11 million people from the united states, what happens to those jobs & industries?[/QUOTE] No telling that 100% of these jobs get replaced, but the beauty of low-skill jobs is that they usually aren't particularly hard to fill, every year millions of kids turn 18 and hopefully enter the work force, the space left by the illegals will be filled soon enough.

[QUOTE=wystan;49804874] Walls are meant to do the same thing regardless of context, it being a military defensive structure vs a physical border to keep people out doesn't make much of a difference.[/QUOTE] yeah it makes a ton of difference - of course context matters in the context of stopping immigration, walls don't work in the context of stopping steppe horsemen from freely roaming your country, pillaging your villages, walls are actually alright the fact that you suggested an objective purpose to the concept of walls is fucking hilarious [editline]24th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=wystan;49804907]Probably isn't too difficult to prevent climbing over or under, would just take some creativity. I agree with upping all the other means of border security, why not do both? Redundancies aren't a bad thing.[/QUOTE] linking again [URL="http://www.nationalmemo.com/an-engin...o-implausible/"]http://www.nationalmemo.com/an-engineer-explains-why-trumps-wall-is-so-implausible[/URL]

Dude you won't get him to face himself and admit that he just doesn't like immigrants. The discussion has devolved into such childish levels. The dude literally thinks of a multiple thousand km long wall. A literal WALL. He has said that he doesn't bother with facts, just his "motivation" Look at his other posts in other threads. I'm sure p. much noone is sharing his infantile viewpoint. [I]Everything we are doing here is arguing him as a person, not his points. [/I] You don't argue with kids so why bother with this childish "lets build a wall" dude.

[QUOTE=benzi2k7;49804915]the majority of undocumented workers are travelling to the united states legally, how does building a wall prevent this rather than working on the issue of them finding it impossible to continue a legal stay in united states due to issues within the immigration system.[/QUOTE] Undocumented worker ≠ Illegal Immigrant, if they got here legally a wall wouldn't mean anything to them, it's their fault if they don't renew their visas.

[QUOTE=wystan;49804926]No telling that 100% of these jobs get replaced, but the beauty of low-skill jobs is that they usually aren't particularly hard to fill, every year millions of kids turn 18 and hopefully enter the work force, the space left by the illegals will be filled soon enough.[/QUOTE]3.3 million high school students will graduate across the US, how do you get every single one of them to fill those jobs that are concentrated in specific areas? they cannot work full-time jobs if they want to go into further education, both in terms of the hours they have available and the ability to get them to where those jobs are located. can you not see how it is ridiculous to have all these hypotheticals to fill much needed low-skill labor jobs rather than just giving a path towards citizenship to undocumented workers who have no path to legal citizenship or to legally obtain a visa? you're so close bro

[QUOTE=wystan;49804948]Undocumented worker ≠ Illegal Immigrant, if they got here legally a wall wouldn't mean anything to them, it's their fault if they don't renew their visas.[/QUOTE] Oh my fucking god

[QUOTE=Killuah;49804943]Dude you won't get him to face himself and admit that he just doesn't like immigrants. The discussion has devolved into such childish levels. The dude literally thinks of a multiple thousand km long wall. A literal WALL. He has said that he doesn't bother with facts, just his "motivation" Look at his other posts in other threads. I'm sure p. much noone is sharing his infantile viewpoint. [I]Everything we are doing here is arguing him as a person, not his points. [/I] You don't argue with kids so why bother with this childish "lets build a wall" dude.[/QUOTE] But I love legal immigrants. I've already said this.

[QUOTE=wystan;49804948]Undocumented worker ≠ Illegal Immigrant, if they got here legally a wall wouldn't mean anything to them, it's their fault if they don't renew their visas.[/QUOTE]they can't renew their visas because there is a limited amount and it is extremely hard to have any sort of legality within the system if you are a low-skilled worker and undocumented workers are 'illegal immigrants'........ [editline]24th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Killuah;49804943]Dude you won't get him to face himself and admit that he just doesn't like immigrants. The discussion has devolved into such childish levels. The dude literally thinks of a multiple thousand km long wall. A literal WALL. He has said that he doesn't bother with facts, just his "motivation" Look at his other posts in other threads. I'm sure p. much noone is sharing his infantile viewpoint. [I]Everything we are doing here is arguing him as a person, not his points. [/I] You don't argue with kids so why bother with this childish "lets build a wall" dude.[/QUOTE]cause he's a real dude on the other side of the pc lol, and he keeps saying new stupid things. it's good practice & arguing on a forum is sort of pointless anyway but that doesn't make it less interesting.

[QUOTE=benzi2k7;49804953]they can't renew their visas because there is a limited amount and it is extremely hard to have any sort of legality within the system if you are a low-skilled worker and undocumented workers are 'illegal immigrants'........ [editline]24th February 2016[/editline] cause he's a real dude on the other side of the pc lol, and he keeps saying new stupid things. it's good practice & arguing on a forum is sort of pointless anyway but that doesn't make it less interesting.[/QUOTE] I find it more fascinating other countries care about this, even if y'all may not understand the situation like someone who literally has dealt with it.

[QUOTE=wystan;49804948]Undocumented worker ≠ Illegal Immigrant, if they got here legally a wall wouldn't mean anything to them, it's their fault if they don't renew their visas.[/QUOTE] [img]http://i.imgur.com/MUl1erg.png[/img]

[QUOTE=benzi2k7;49804949]3.3 million high school students will graduate across the US, how do you get every single one of them to fill those jobs that are concentrated in specific areas? they cannot work full-time jobs if they want to go into further education, both in terms of the hours they have available and the ability to get them to where those jobs are located. can you not see how it is ridiculous to have all these hypotheticals to fill much needed low-skill labor jobs rather than just giving a path towards citizenship to undocumented workers who have no path to legal citizenship or to legally obtain a visa? you're so close bro[/QUOTE] It is completely feasible to both go to college and work (even at full time). I've gone to school full time, worked full time and both locations were an hour away from my house. Unless someone is completely lazy and unmotivated (which will likely find them dropping out of college anyway in that case) then it's completely feasible to do these things.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49804967][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/MUl1erg.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] Work Visas mean you are undocumented but not an illegal immigrant, once it expires you become illegal.

[QUOTE=wystan;49804962]I find it more fascinating other countries care about this, even if y'all may not understand the situation like someone who literally has dealt with it.[/QUOTE]the exploitation and bigotry against immigrants is a planet wide concept bro please tell me how you've dealt with 8 million undocumented workers :-)

[QUOTE=wystan;49804976]Work Visas mean you are undocumented but not an illegal immigrant, once it expires you become illegal.[/QUOTE]if you have the work visa you are documented.. the visa is the document [QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;49804972]It is completely feasible to both go to college and work (even at full time). I've gone to school full time, worked full time and both locations were an hour away from my house. Unless someone is completely lazy and unmotivated (which will likely find them dropping out of college anyway in that case) then it's completely feasible to do these things.[/QUOTE]i understand this, but the jobs that would need replacing aren't an hour away from 8 million+ students houses, right?

[QUOTE=wystan;49804976]Work Visas mean you are undocumented but not an illegal immigrant, once it expires you become illegal.[/QUOTE] a visa is an official document that is needed to work in the country legally by definition a worker with a visa is not undocumented, because a visa is documentation are you trolling? [editline]24th February 2016[/editline] i can't tell but i'm still laughing

[QUOTE=benzi2k7;49804977]the exploitation and bigotry against immigrants is a planet wide concept bro please tell me how you've dealt with 8 million undocumented workers :-)[/QUOTE] You should stop leaving out the word illegal talking about this subject. I'm sorry people who came here illegally and showed no respect for our borders and laws don't get welcomed with open arms. [editline]24th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49804983]a visa is an official document that is needed to work in the country legally by definition a worker with a visa is not undocumented, because a visa is documentation are you trolling? [editline]24th February 2016[/editline] i can't tell but i'm still laughing[/QUOTE] What are expired [b]work[/b] visas?

[QUOTE=wystan;49804988]You should stop leaving out the word illegal talking about this subject. I'm sorry people who came here illegally and showed no respect for our borders and laws don't get welcomed with open arms.[/QUOTE]undocumented workers and illegal immigrants are the same thing lmao the majority of illegal immigrants came through legally, and not by crossing the border sneakily