[QUOTE=Firespray;49803379]Is his idea of giving Muslims special ID badges and barring any movement in or out of the country not inherently racist? If that isn't promoting some kind of institutional racism I really don't know what is. In the modern context, race and religion are extremely intertwined right now.
I am very much not okay with having to register myself in a database targeting only Muslims. Not only that, why should I be subjected to being unable to travel to other countries and then be banned from re-entering the US despite me being a citizen?
[/QUOTE]
How is a database with IDs racist? You think the government doesn't already have a database on you? I wish I was as naive as you.
[editline]24th February 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;49805283][img]http://i.imgur.com/85JUdqY.png[/img]
wow finished with more than second and third place combined.[/QUOTE]
Trump wins the election confirmed. The internet is going to be hilarious in November.
This is reminding me eerily of Rob Ford, but on a much larger and more horrifying scale.
[sp]Crack president when?[/sp]
[QUOTE=Fat White Lump;49805668]
Trump wins the election confirmed. The internet is going to be hilarious in November.[/QUOTE]This doesn't confirm anything, why is it that all the Trump supporters on this forum come across as blithering idiots?
[QUOTE=Killer900;49805824]This doesn't confirm anything, why is it that all the Trump supporters come across as blithering idiots?[/QUOTE]
He's just been reposting opinions and quotes from /pol/, what were you expecting?
[QUOTE=Killer900;49805824]This doesn't confirm anything, why is it that all the Trump supporters on this forum come across as blithering idiots?[/QUOTE]
because thats a requirement to support him in the first place lmao
-snipparoo-
Yeah I have no doubt in my mind that Trump will win the primaries.
Personally I would love to see how a Trump vs. Sanders debate would go down.
[QUOTE=Fat White Lump;49805668]How is a database with IDs racist? You think the government doesn't already have a database on you? I wish I was as naive as you.[/QUOTE]
i bet you justified japanese internment camps because "prison isn't racist"
[QUOTE=Killer900;49805824]This doesn't confirm anything, why is it that all the Trump supporters on this forum come across as blithering idiots?[/QUOTE]
I'm a trump supporter however I know that the next big hurdle deciding anything will be super Tuesday
[QUOTE=Doom64hunter;49806190]Yeah I have no doubt in my mind that Trump will win the primaries.
Personally I would love to see how a Trump vs. Sanders debate would go down.[/QUOTE]
Trump would likely spend the entire debate being a petulant child like he has for the last x Republican debates. Attacking the opponent rather than their policy and making a shitload of soundbite quotes because he's literally incapable of using big words or articulating anything more complex then "we get gud".
God knows how Sanders would actually respond to that, I can't say I've ever seen him go on the attack, a quick jab here and there, but never outright spending an entire debate being a belled to his opponents.
[QUOTE=wystan;49804609]Bigger walls have been built, why wouldn't it work? No, I'm not going to take the time to go watch a full P&T episode so I can watch their heavily biased way of conducting interviews and "experiments", which they at least have the self-awareness to label as bullshit.[/QUOTE]
Oh my god. The Great Wall is the only wall that would be bigger than it, and China practically sacrificed millions of people to create it. And it definitely did not get built within 4 - 8 years. And you would be the kind of person that doesn't like P&T... they literally only talk about facts unless they're interjecting with "what a bumbling fucktard."
[QUOTE=Nukefuzz;49806560]Oh my god. The Great Wall is the only wall that would be bigger than it, and China practically sacrificed millions of people to create it. And it definitely did not get built within 4 - 8 years. And you would be the kind of person that doesn't like P&T... they literally only talk about facts unless they're interjecting with "what a bumbling fucktard."[/QUOTE]
Because there have been no improvements that might make construction of a wall faster, easier, and safer since the Great Wall of China was built?
[QUOTE=DaMastez;49806579]Because there have been no improvements that might make construction of a wall faster, easier, and safer since the Great Wall of China was built?[/QUOTE]
Not ones significant enough to make it doable in 8 years and not ones that would make it feasible to do so financially.
But that would require arguing with some degree of reference to reality.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49806633]Not ones significant enough to make it doable in 8 years and not ones that would make it feasible to do so financially.
[B]But that would require arguing with some degree of reference to reality.[/B][/QUOTE]
[URL]http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2016/02/16/trump-border-wall-explainer-animation-orig-nws.cnn[/URL]
For around 10 Billion dollars it can be built, and could be done in 4 years...
Which isn't an unreasonable number seeing how we have spent 90 BILLION over 10 years attempting deploying a crappy fence and constant monitoring to secure it
[URL]http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2011/06/26/90b_spent_on_border_security_with_mixed_results/[/URL]
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;49806659][URL]http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2016/02/16/trump-border-wall-explainer-animation-orig-nws.cnn[/URL]
For around 10 Billion dollars it can be built, and could be done in 4 years...
Which isn't an unreasonable number seeing how we have spent 90 BILLION over 10 years attempting to secure it
[url]http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2011/06/26/90b_spent_on_border_security_with_mixed_results/[/url][/QUOTE]
It still won't be a secure border so I fail to see how spending that money would help
also, that's a very, very, very low estimate that will quickly inflate with government contracts.
Okay, so if I may just kinda butt in here.
We do need better border security and yeah we absolutely need to reform our immigration system. Not only does not having proper border security promote vigilante justice in border areas with ranchers hiring militiamen and militiawomen to guard their ranches with firearms, and pretty much giving them free game to do whatever they so please, but it's also a bigger issue relating to human trafficking.
I do not mind the Mexican people, I absolutely hate the cartels considering some family friends were attacked and killed by them, but I don't hate the Mexican people. What upsets me though is how people are acting like it's no big deal or problem that Mexicans are being paid almost near slave-wage, and are saying that it's okay.
That's a huge, huge fucking problem. Americans would absolutely take those jobs if they paid $10/hr. Most of the folks here in North Dakota actually do it simply because they like working outside during the warmer months. What's a big fucking problem though is that by allowing for illegal immigration of migrants which are mainly unable to speak the mother tongue of the country they are attempting to migrate to, it leads to a major problem where they can be screwed over. Take a look at some of the comments in this thread, "Well Mexicans do farm work for cheaper! Americans wouldn't!" it's as if people are completely content with enslaving someone who isn't their fellow-countryman to do jobs which would otherwise be considered illegal for their risk vs reward.
My personal belief is that currently, we need to either integrate the Mexican-Americans which currently reside here illegally(5% of the US population), by teaching them our countries mother tongue and going about making sure they understand that their work deserves honest and [B]legal pay[/B], or we need to start deporting them to avoid the possibility of criminal enterprises formed via poverty. I'm also for going about in not only fining companies which underpay immigrants, but I'd actually love to make an example of a few of the company managers responsible for this shit by forcefully closing down their enterprise and rewarding those which have suffered from lackluster pay.
Going back to the construction of a stronger border wall though... Why are we not taking the immigrants that are currently residing in the United States, and promise them equal pay, work visas with chance for citizenship, and giving them classes to teach them English and proper understanding of the legal system in the United States? This system would not only allow for an honest route to not only buff up our border security, but it'd also would allow for Mexican-Americans to prove themselves as being American citizens, while also giving them the ability to set up a livelihood in the United States.
As for the border wall... We just need a border wall similar to the one in California and parts of the Nogales, AZ border. Something which is proper enough to prevent further illegal immigration, while at the same time making it more difficult for cartels to traffic people into the United States with narcotics as well as pushing people into Coyote Houses, which yes, will lead to Mexicans becoming involved in a criminal lifestyle.
Some people may be confused by my views on this, but honestly when you come down to reality, not having a proper border with security patrols, is outright promoting the existence of armed militia groups, human trafficking, wage slavery, and illegal transportation of narcotics and firearms between both the United States and Mexico. It is something that both of our countries should strive to work together for, not only because it would put an end to certain problems but because it's simply a case of human rights. You may be okay with the Mexican people taking undesirable jobs which pay jackshit and have the possibility of them always being deported, but I cannot see myself ever supporting that.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49806674]It still won't be a secure border so I fail to see how spending that money would help
also, that's a very, very, very low estimate that will quickly inflate with government contracts.[/QUOTE]
They just broke down how to make a very secure wall with concrete and reinforced steel joints... It's leagues above what we have now in terms of some non existent parts of a boarder fence.
I could argue trump is pretty good a balancing budgets for contracts, and not to mention the US isn't paying for it according to Trump so it is a non issue for US citizens.
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;49806692]Okay, so if I may just kinda butt in here.
We do need better border security and yeah we absolutely need to reform our immigration system. Not only does not having proper border security promote vigilante justice in border areas with ranchers hiring militiamen and militiawomen to guard their ranches with firearms, and pretty much giving them free game to do whatever they so please, but it's also a bigger issue relating to human trafficking.
I do not mind the Mexican people, I absolutely hate the cartels considering some family friends were attacked and killed by them, but I don't hate the Mexican people. What upsets me though is how people are acting like it's no big deal or problem that Mexicans are being paid almost near slave-wage, and are saying that it's okay.
That's a huge, huge fucking problem. Americans would absolutely take those jobs if they paid $10/hr. Most of the folks here in North Dakota actually do it simply because they like working outside during the warmer months. What's a big fucking problem though is that by allowing for illegal immigration of migrants which are mainly unable to speak the mother tongue of the country they are attempting to migrate to, it leads to a major problem where they can be screwed over. Take a look at some of the comments in this thread, "Well Mexicans do farm work for cheaper! Americans wouldn't!" it's as if people are completely content with enslaving someone who isn't their fellow-countryman to do jobs which would otherwise be considered illegal for their risk vs reward.
My personal belief is that currently, we need to either integrate the Mexican-Americans which currently reside here illegally(5% of the US population), by teaching them our countries mother tongue and going about making sure they understand that their work deserves honest and [B]legal pay[/B], or we need to start deporting them to avoid the possibility of criminal enterprises formed via poverty. I'm also for going about in not only fining companies which underpay immigrants, but I'd actually love to make an example of a few of the company managers responsible for this shit by forcefully closing down their enterprise and rewarding those which have suffered from lackluster pay.
Going back to the construction of a stronger border wall though... Why are we not taking the immigrants that are currently residing in the United States, and promise them equal pay, work visas with chance for citizenship, and giving them classes to teach them English and proper understanding of the legal system in the United States? This system would not only allow for an honest route to not only buff up our border security, but it'd also would allow for Mexican-Americans to prove themselves as being American citizens, while also giving them the ability to set up a livelihood in the United States.
As for the border wall... We just need a border wall similar to the one in California and parts of the Nogales, AZ border. Something which is proper enough to prevent further illegal immigration, while at the same time making it more difficult for cartels to traffic people into the United States with narcotics as well as pushing people into Coyote Houses, which yes, will lead to Mexicans becoming involved in a criminal lifestyle.
Some people may be confused by my views on this, but honestly when you come down to reality, not having a proper border with security patrols, is outright promoting the existence of armed militia groups, human trafficking, wage slavery, and illegal transportation of narcotics and firearms between both the United States and Mexico. It is something that both of our countries should strive to work together for, not only because it would put an end to certain problems but because it's simply a case of human rights. You may be okay with the Mexican people taking undesirable jobs which pay jackshit and have the possibility of them always being deported, but I cannot see myself ever supporting that.[/QUOTE]
I would be more confused by people who are confused by your post.
Strengthening border security isn't a bad thing, and giving legal residency status/work visa to people who are here to make a simple living to support their family isn't bad either. We do need to be tough on watching our borders like you said to stop human trafficking and vigilante justice, and tackling the issue exactly as you said would be the best solution. You aren't wrong at all in any way.
Doing it any other way would just seem...dumb. Yet for some reason both the left and right wings seem to want to half ass it.
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;49806708]They just broke down how to make a very secure wall with concrete and reinforced steel joints... It's leagues above what we have now in terms of some non existent parts of a boarder fence.
I could argue trump is pretty good a balancing budgets for contracts, and not to mention the US isn't paying for it according to Trump so it is a non issue for US citizens.[/QUOTE]
Yeah I just don't believe it because I know they have to sell it as a lower cost than it really would be. There's no way to build a wall that will be both effective, and not very costly.
Sure you could argue that about Trump but I think you'd be wrong to do so. Sure, he may be able to, on a good day, balance that budget(Or more appropriately, he hires a fuck ton of accountants who figure that out) but if you think for even [B]one[/B] second that Mexico will pay for this wall, you're fucking high.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49806751]Yeah I just don't believe it because I know they have to sell it as a lower cost than it really would be. There's no way to build a wall that will be both effective, and not very costly. [/QUOTE]
10 Billion is a third party estimate, even if you increased it by 50% then it's still a good long term investment
[quote]Sure you could argue that about Trump but I think you'd be wrong to do so. Sure, he may be able to, on a good day, balance that budget(Or more appropriately, he hires a fuck ton of accountants who figure that out) but if you think for even [B]one[/B] second that Mexico will pay for this wall, you're fucking high.[/quote]
Reforming tariff and trade laws about goods from mexico, in addition to reduced burden of boarder patrol literally gaurding shitty cross fences
[IMG]https://cryptome.org/eyeball/border-wall/pict56.jpg[/IMG]
[t]http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1432/5101130350_5889fd728d_b.jpg[/t]
[t]http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get2/I0000EXpUq499sSg/fit=1000x750/20090930-0057c.jpg[/t]
The wall can be paid for and will pay for itself in reduced boarder personnel constantly needed patrolling it.
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;49806708]...and not to mention the US isn't paying for it according to Trump so it is a non issue for US citizens.[/QUOTE]
Surely you can't be serious? You don't honestly believe that Mexico will get a bill in the mail from Donald J. Trump, and be like, "Damn, guess we should pay that..."
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;49806775]10 Billion is a third party estimate, even if you increased it by 50% then it's still a good long term investment
Reforming tariff and trade laws about goods from mexico, in addition to reduced burden of boarder patrol literally gaurding shitty cross fences
[IMG]https://cryptome.org/eyeball/border-wall/pict56.jpg[/IMG]
[t]http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1432/5101130350_5889fd728d_b.jpg[/t]
[t]http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get2/I0000EXpUq499sSg/fit=1000x750/20090930-0057c.jpg[/t]
The wall can be paid for and will pay for itself in reduced boarder personnel constantly needed patrolling it.[/QUOTE]
So you seriously think Mexico is paying for this wall which will be more expensive and less useful than you advocate it will be? You seriously think it'll be paid for by the country getting hurt the most?
How...? Logically, walk me through it.
[QUOTE=Revenge282;49806790]Surely you can't be serious? You don't honestly believe that Mexico will get a bill in the mail from Donald J. Trump, and be like, "Damn, guess we should pay that..."[/QUOTE]
Import taxes on good from Mexico to fund the wall, it will help US companies compete and will help pay for the wall at the same time. I fail to see where a problem would be with higher taxation on goods from mexico, that or diminished foreign aid till the wall is paid for.
[editline]24th February 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49806805]So you seriously think Mexico is paying for this wall which will be more expensive and less useful than you advocate it will be? You seriously think it'll be paid for by the country getting hurt the most?
How...? Logically, walk me through it.[/QUOTE]
Trump has stated in rallies that he is okay with raising taxes of goods coming into the US from Mexico, by doing that tax revenue from goods coming in could go easily to pay for the wall.
I'm not saying "Fuck your borders don't protect them". I'm saying this is an 8 billion plus dollar project that won't do 1/10th of what you think it'll do, and you don't even need it because of the otherwise largely lowering immigration numbers. They're not coming as much as they used to and you're still thinking you need to spend 10 billion on a wall, and then an additional 10 at least billion to properly staff and secure the wall(Because just making a wall makes something secure, right? No, you need the manpower, every bit as much manpower) and all for what dude? For what purpose? And you think Mexico is paying for it? God damn dude stop drinking kool aide.
[editline]24th February 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;49806807]Import taxes on good from Mexico to fund the wall, it will help US companies compete and will help pay for the wall at the same time. I fail to see where a problem would be with higher taxation on goods from mexico, that or diminished foreign aid till the wall is paid for.
[editline]24th February 2016[/editline]
Trump has stated in rallies that he is okay with raising taxes of goods coming into the US from Mexico, by doing that tax revenue from goods coming in could go easily to pay for the wall.[/QUOTE]
ahaha yeah sure... I don't think so.
STill doesn't answer the real problem.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49806825]I'm not saying "Fuck your borders don't protect them". I'm saying this is an 8 billion plus dollar project that won't do 1/10th of what you think it'll do, and you don't even need it because of the otherwise largely lowering immigration numbers. They're not coming as much as they used to and you're still thinking you need to spend 10 billion on a wall, and then an additional 10 at least billion to properly staff and secure the wall(Because just making a wall makes something secure, right? No, you need the manpower, every bit as much manpower) and all for what dude? For what purpose? And you think Mexico is paying for it? God damn dude stop drinking kool aide.[/QUOTE]
The man power budget is already in place for securing a crippled boarder fence. A secured actual wall will help make it easier for boarder patrol units to effectively patrol.
[quote]ahaha yeah sure... I don't think so.
STill doesn't answer the real problem.[/quote]
It's a big step in the right direction, no one is saying a wall will solve it all but it IS a large step to helping negate a lot of issues with illegal immigration. I don't think ANYONE believes the wall is the end all solution.
I feel ashamed to live in this country. The fact that such an incompetent madman could get so far speaks volumes on the state of this place. He preaches hatred, violence, racism, he lies, cheats, and blames others for anything and everything. And people still vote for him. Let me out of this shithole.
[QUOTE=New Cidem;49806848]I feel ashamed to live in this country. The fact that such an incompetent madman could get so far speaks volumes on the state of this place. He preaches hatred, violence, racism, he lies, cheats, and blames others for anything and everything. And people still vote for him. Let me out of this shithole.[/QUOTE]
Instead of trying to just say "let me out" or "welp moving to X country", why not rally behind someone who feels the way you do instead of just saying "fuck it". There will always be people who disagree with you regardless where you go in the world.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49806825]I'm not saying "Fuck your borders don't protect them". I'm saying this is an 8 billion plus dollar project that won't do 1/10th of what you think it'll do, and you don't even need it because of the otherwise largely lowering immigration numbers. They're not coming as much as they used to and you're still thinking you need to spend 10 billion on a wall, and then an additional 10 at least billion to properly staff and secure the wall(Because just making a wall makes something secure, right? No, you need the manpower, every bit as much manpower) and all for what dude? For what purpose? And you think Mexico is paying for it? God damn dude stop drinking kool aide.
[/QUOTE]
I'd laugh my ass off if they actually went through with building this stupid fucking wall and then immigration rates just kept on going at the same rate they've been going for years until these idiots realize that more immigrants are coming from Central America these days and not Mexico.
[QUOTE=1nfiniteseed;49806940]I'd laugh my ass off if they actually went through with building this stupid fucking wall and then immigration rates just kept on going at the same rate they've been going for years until these idiots realize that more immigrants are coming from Central America these days and not Mexico.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but some of the easiest ways in are via the mexican boarder that is currently stupid easy to get in since the "fence" is patchy at best.
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;49806870]Instead of trying to just say "let me out" or "welp moving to X country", why not rally behind someone who feels the way you do instead of just saying "fuck it". There will always be people who disagree with you regardless where you go in the world.[/QUOTE]
You don't seem to get it - I don't want to live in a country with people who would vote for Donald Trump. Perhaps you're right, if only my father would give me a small loan of a million dollars so I could buy a private island.
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