[QUOTE=New Cidem;49806985]You don't seem to get it - I don't want to live in a country with people who would vote for Donald Trump. Perhaps you're right, if only my father would give me a small loan of a million dollars so I could buy a private island.[/QUOTE]
So just because people have different political views in the country you want to move to live somewhere else? I'm sorry where on earth does a civilization like that exist where everyone thinks exactly one way?
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;49807011]So just because people have different political views in the country you want to move to live somewhere else? I'm sorry where on earth does a civilization like that exist where everyone thinks exactly one way?[/QUOTE]
You don't have to have everyone think the same things, that's not what I want. I do however don't enjoy the idea of someone so regressive and barbaric getting so far in what is supposed to be a first world country. The man is a sociopath, that's all there is to it. I don't really care too much about whether you're right, left, democrat, republican, whatever, doesn't matter. The American people who truly believe that this man would be a capable leader of this country disgust me to no end. It's pure madness, ignorance on a level I've never seen before and I hope to god never have to see again.
[QUOTE=New Cidem;49806985]You don't seem to get it - I don't want to live in a country with people who would vote for Donald Trump. Perhaps you're right, if only my father would give me a small loan of a million dollars so I could buy a private island.[/QUOTE]
You do realize that when dealing in NYC real estate, a million dollars is actually a small loan?
[QUOTE=Svinnik;49807065]You do realize that when dealing in NYC real estate, a million dollars is actually a small loan?[/QUOTE]
yeah it's still a fuck load more than most people get and you cannot possibly say "I built myself up from nothing" if you got that kind of loan in a business where you need that kind of money and connections to get anywhere
Fuck why do people think that getting that loan was insubstantial to his career? It's 7.6 million dollars today, and you seriously think "Well he had NO help!" No, he had 7.6 million dollar more help than you or I would recieve.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49807071]yeah it's still a fuck load more than most people get and you cannot possibly say "I built myself up from nothing" if you got that kind of loan in a business where you need that kind of money and connections to get anywhere
Fuck why do people think that getting that loan was insubstantial to his career? It's 7.6 million dollars today, and you seriously think "Well he had NO help!" No, he had 7.6 million dollar more help than you or I would recieve.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying he had no help. He did have help from his father. Why are you outraged that rich people can afford to set their children up? It's the same thing as middle and lower class people hiring their kids to work at the store that the family owns
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49807071]yeah it's still a fuck load more than most people get and you cannot possibly say "I built myself up from nothing" if you got that kind of loan in a business where you need that kind of money and connections to get anywhere
Fuck why do people think that getting that loan was insubstantial to his career? It's 7.6 million dollars today, and you seriously think "Well he had NO help!" No, he had 7.6 million dollar more help than you or I would recieve.[/QUOTE]
Startup businesses get loans(and have been for some time) that they pay back, similar to how Trump paid back his loan. What is amazing is how he was able to grow his business into a world wide enterprise and maintain it to this day.
[QUOTE=Svinnik;49807107]I'm not saying he had no help. He did have help from his father. Why are you outraged that rich people can afford to set their children up? It's the same thing as middle and lower class people hiring their kids to work at the store that the family owns[/QUOTE]
I'm not even the slightest bit outraged
I'm entirely confused as to how people think it's impressive that a person got so much help through money and connections(The real money maker you all seem to fucking ignore when supporting Trump) as if he did all this himself. No. He didn't. Stop making a normal, even airheaded man, seem like the next fucking warren buffet.
[QUOTE=Svinnik;49807065]You do realize that when dealing in NYC real estate, a million dollars is actually a small loan?[/QUOTE]
Of course I realize that. I also realize it's incredibly insensitive and out-of-touch to use terminology like "small loan" in front of lower middle class Americans who've never seen anything close to a million dollars in one place. Don't worry though, if you pull yourself by your boot-straps, stop being crippled, and just build that wall - you too can be incompetent and file for bankruptcy multiple times!
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;49807113]Startup businesses get loans(and have been for some time) that they pay back, similar to how Trump paid back his loan. What is amazing is how he was able to grow his business into a world wide enterprise and maintain it to this day.[/QUOTE]
Yes.
Now, how about you go apply for a start up business loan of 7.6 million dollars and see if you are approved or if you are denied due to not having the proper connections, or life time of training to be able to come up with an argument as to why you deserve that money.
He also didn't get a loan from a bank but from his father, a massively different experience that you can't say he did on his own in any fathomable way.
[QUOTE=Fat White Lump;49805668]How is a database with IDs racist? You think the government doesn't already have a database on you? I wish I was as naive as you.
[/QUOTE]
Of course the government has a database with me in it. Its not like I'm invisible with the system. Don't patronize me by calling me naive, that is a cop out response. What the government doesn't have is all of the Muslims currently in the country in a compact list. As for how it is racist, it is very clear. Forcing me to register in a 'Muslim only' database only serves to further discrimination. Please tell me, and I want you to answer this seriously, how does it protect me/benefit me in ANY way by forcing me to do this?
I mean sure you can try to justify it using some warped logic, thats what they do to every targeted minority in U.S. history. For example, the Chinese exclusion act back in 1882 was a result of a narrative that was forged to paint them as foreigners who come into the country to take the mining jobs and smoke a lot of opium, therefore corrupting the fabric of society. Whats worse for them was the inability to naturalize as citizens at all due to that act until 1943. With Muslims it may as well be "they are coming into the country to plot against us and destroy our way of life." You can't just ban an entire group of people like that just because of a popular sentiment regarding them as threatening. Like seriously? Domestic terrorism in the United States is a far larger problem than foreign Muslim terrorism. I consider myself quite lucky in the fact that I am a citizen and I do have rights. I can only hope that if Trump does become president and tries to implement something like this that the supreme court will strike it down. Still, connect the two, how is Trump going to know who to not let back into the country once they leave and try to come back? That specific database for Muslims is perfect for it.
What deeply worries me is that you are okay with Trump doing this. I sincerely hope you know what kind of country you will be getting into by voting for him. I for one do not feel comfortable with this at all.
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;49806807]Import taxes on good from Mexico to fund the wall, it will help US companies compete and will help pay for the wall at the same time. I fail to see where a problem would be with higher taxation on goods from mexico, that or diminished foreign aid till the wall is paid for.
[editline]24th February 2016[/editline]
Trump has stated in rallies that he is okay with raising taxes of goods coming into the US from Mexico, by doing that tax revenue from goods coming in could go easily to pay for the wall.[/QUOTE]
Good luck getting automakers like Ford and anyone who outsources to Mexico to go along with that. I bet they won't lobby the fuck out of that...
[QUOTE=Aircraft;49805596]Yes, yes it is, but not for a purpose advantageous for an average citizen. The advantages of having a lame duck moderate as the president comes with some SERIOUS repercussions. His currently proposed 'fixes' for the tax code and student loan/college financial system are not well thought out, either because his plan is stupid to begin with or because he kneecaps it for the target audience. He has no friends within congress, and would likely see worse gridlock than Obama or impeachment. Worst of all, he will probably be over reliant on his cabinet (who on earth knows who will be in cabinet) and will leverage his stature as president to further his business enterprises. The last thing the nation needs is a Cheney-esque brick voted in by reactionary rants from a salesman or the assumptions from disillusioned voters on his course of action in office.[/QUOTE]
Well... I'd say the last thing this country needs is someone like Cruz or Rubio, who have detailed plans to systematically destroy the past eight years of liberal progress that's been made by the Obama administration. You can bet we'd have crackdowns on everything from marijuana to gay marriage if they took office, and you could say goodbye to any Supreme Court rulings and executive actions that have been made during Obama's terms. Especially with a GOP supermajority in congress.
At least in that situation, having a lame duck moderate would likely be a far better solution. Still not great, but better. And, it'd give the GOP a kick in the pants, since it'd be a huge blow to their establishment. I wouldn't mind that at all.
I'm not saying I want to see a Trump White House, but it probably wouldn't be the end of the world if that's what we got.
[QUOTE=benzi2k7;49804266]have you given up on arguing your point now and just turning to insulting (????) other peoples countries, there's a 0.5% difference in growth rate between the two countries. both are issues, germany isn't talking about buildin a fuckin wall though[/QUOTE]
To be fair half the time it's those other countries insulting us in a similar fashion, and his remark was comparatively civil.
[QUOTE=Firespray;49807300]Of course the government has a database with me in it. Its not like I'm invisible with the system. Don't patronize me by calling me naive, that is a cop out response. What the government doesn't have is all of the Muslims currently in the country in a compact list. As for how it is racist, it is very clear. Forcing me to register in a 'Muslim only' database only serves to further discrimination. Please tell me, and I want you to answer this seriously, how does it protect me/benefit me in ANY way by forcing me to do this?
I mean sure you can try to justify it using some warped logic, thats what they do to every targeted minority in U.S. history. For example, the Chinese exclusion act back in 1882 was a result of a narrative that was forged to paint them as foreigners who come into the country to take the mining jobs and smoke a lot of opium, therefore corrupting the fabric of society. Whats worse for them was the inability to naturalize as citizens at all due to that act until 1943. With Muslims it may as well be "they are coming into the country to plot against us and destroy our way of life." You can't just ban an entire group of people like that just because of a popular sentiment regarding them as threatening. Like seriously? Domestic terrorism in the United States is a far larger problem than foreign Muslim terrorism. I consider myself quite lucky in the fact that I am a citizen and I do have rights. I can only hope that if Trump does become president and tries to implement something like this that the supreme court will strike it down. Still, connect the two, how is Trump going to know who to not let back into the country once they leave and try to come back? That specific database for Muslims is perfect for it.
What deeply worries me is that you are okay with Trump doing this. I sincerely hope you know what kind of country you will be getting into by voting for him. I for one do not feel comfortable with this at all.[/QUOTE]
Filtering the database is racist. Okay. Guess there's no arguing that.
How can we not do this? Carter banned Iranians back in the 80s, we can totally do it again.
I really want Trump to do this. I see what happened with San Bernardino and Paris. And I see what's happening in Germany and Sweden. These shootings and the mass rapes cannot happen in my country. We absolutely need to figure out what's going on before we let any more muslims in.
[QUOTE=Matthew0505;49807885]There have also been improvements at making holes in walls, notice how nobody uses star forts anymore?[/QUOTE]
Because illegal immigrants have the capabilities of a modern military?
Moreover a wall isn't going to solve all of the problems; additional resources will be necessary to locate tunnels, aircraft, and attempts to breach the wall. What is is going to make it a lot harder to cross the border than stepping over a waist-high fence, if there even is anything in place.
Trump wants to triple the number of ICE officers as well, so I suspect he too understands a wall alone won't be very effective.
[QUOTE=DaMastez;49808064]Because illegal immigrants have the capabilities of a modern military?
Moreover a wall isn't going to solve all of the problems; additional resources will be necessary to locate tunnels, aircraft, and attempts to breach the wall. What is is going to make it a lot harder to cross the border than stepping over a waist-high fence, if there even is anything in place.
Trump wants to triple the number of ICE officers as well, so I suspect he too understands a wall alone won't be very effective.[/QUOTE]
so then why build a wall if you're still going to have to do so much more than build a wall
seems like a waste of time
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49808069]so then why build a wall if you're still going to have to do so much more than build a wall
seems like a waste of time[/QUOTE]
Vehicles.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49808069]so then why build a wall if you're still going to have to do so much more than build a wall
seems like a waste of time[/QUOTE]
Carried items, people, etc. A wall is the most practical way to physically keep out things and make it more effective and easier for patrols to monitor and manage.
[QUOTE=Fat White Lump;49808052]Filtering the database is racist. Okay. Guess there's no arguing that.
How can we not do this? Carter banned Iranians back in the 80s, we can totally do it again.
I really want Trump to do this. I see what happened with San Bernardino and Paris. And I see what's happening in Germany and Sweden. These shootings and the mass rapes cannot happen in my country. We absolutely need to figure out what's going on before we let any more muslims in.[/QUOTE]
Because it's idiotic. You've made your database and then what? You're going to monitor every single one of them to make sure they're not a risk? There are currently 3.3 million Muslims who live in the United States and you're saying we need to treat all of them like they might suddenly walk into a mall with an AK and start firing.
And furthermore, banning all Muslims from coming here will accomplish nothing. If ISIS wants to strike here, they'll do it using lone wolves or radicalized american citizens already here. Not by sending military age men. Trump said he would do that because people (like you) would eat that shit up and somehow get it into their heads that Trump has all the right ideas in terms of fighting terror, when in reality he would be one of our most incompetent commanders in chief.
And don't try comparing Carter's ban on Iranian immigration to the garbage Trump's proposing. That ban was against nationals of one country, and made numerous exceptions for refugees. Carter was doing it as part of a broader platform of toughening pressure on the Khomeini regime, not a random, fear-mongering act that flies int he face of our country's values.
And of course, the fact that Carter's ban occurred in a vastly different context.
I fear the death count of American soldiers as they're sent blindly into Syria with no end goal or over all strategy other than "cut off ISIS's head and take their oil" by a President Trump.
And I thought Bush was a war criminal for the Second Gulf War...
[QUOTE=Fat White Lump;49808052]Filtering the database is racist. Okay. Guess there's no arguing that.
How can we not do this? Carter banned Iranians back in the 80s, we can totally do it again.
I really want Trump to do this. I see what happened with San Bernardino and Paris. And I see what's happening in Germany and Sweden. These shootings and the mass rapes cannot happen in my country. We absolutely need to figure out what's going on before we let any more muslims in.[/QUOTE]
Well, pretty much what Infiniteseed said in regards to Carter. It was just against nationals in one country in an attempt to put political pressure on Iran. Its very different to ban 1.6 billion people in the world just because of their religion (especially when these people are U.S. citizens like me).
Are your concerns justified about the mass rapes and shootings that will somehow happen if we let Muslims into the country? To be honest, I would have to say no. The narrative that is being played in Trump's speeches is very detached from what is actually going on. Incidents like San Bernardino aren't exactly the commonplace. And well, we do know whats going on. ISIS controls chunks of Syria and Iraq with its influence spreading beyond their borders. What we should do is support (not boots on the ground) an Arab coalition that will deal with ISIS. Should we just blanket ban Muslims in general, then Trump will just destroy what relations we have in the Middle East. This is "not cutting off the head of ISIS" as Trump says, this is political isolation that can only further harm the U.S. Still, should we keep an eye out on suspicious people? Absolutely, and I am very confident our intelligence services work very well in that regard. In addition, the narrative of terrorism in the U.S. has to be expanded beyond ISIS. Domestic terrorism is very much a problem that is often ignored. Perhaps focus on international terrorism generates more viewers and that's what the media focuses on. Either way, this graph is a good description on the type of terrorism occurring in the United States. [t]http://i.imgur.com/rQde1Va.png[/t] Banning 1.6 billion people is a very radical way to deal with this and does far more harm than good (without even taking into account the social injustices it places on Muslims as well).
[QUOTE=Fat White Lump;49808052]Filtering the database is racist. Okay. Guess there's no arguing that.
How can we not do this? Carter banned Iranians back in the 80s, we can totally do it again.
I really want Trump to do this. [I]I see what happened with San Bernardino and Paris. And I see what's happening in Germany and Sweden. These shootings and the mass rapes cannot happen in my country. We absolutely need to figure out what's going on before we let any more muslims in.[/I][/QUOTE]
Without getting into the debate, it's amazing the extent to which you've adopted Trump's rhetoric basically word for word.
[QUOTE=Fat White Lump;49808052] We absolutely need to figure out what's going on before we let any more muslims in.[/QUOTE]
Can someone explain to me what exactly Trump and friends mean when saying this?
[QUOTE=Hanso;49810311]Can someone explain to me what exactly Trump and friends mean when saying this?[/QUOTE]
It means Trump and company haven't paid a damn bit of attention to the past 15 years regarding terrorism and foreign policy, so once in office they're going to say "stop! what's been happening all this time I wasn't paying attention?"
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;49809361]Without getting into the debate, it's amazing the extent to which you've adopted Trump's rhetoric basically word for word.[/QUOTE]
he's a gimmick account lol
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49806825]I'm not saying "Fuck your borders don't protect them". [B]I'm saying this is an 8 billion plus dollar project that won't do 1/10th of what you think[/B] it'll do, and you don't even need it because of the otherwise largely lowering immigration numbers. They're not coming as much as they used to and you're still thinking you need to spend 10 billion on a wall, and then [B]an additional 10 at least billion to properly staff and secure the wall[/B](Because just making a wall makes something secure, right? No, you need the manpower, every bit as much manpower) and all for what dude? For what purpose? And you think Mexico is paying for it? God damn dude stop drinking kool aide.[/QUOTE]
Surely then you must be directly involved in the construction and logistics? Otherwise, with claims such as you make, I might think you someone that knows little and has nothing of value to say on it.
Clearly the wall will cost money to build and obviously it will cost money to maintain and keep secured. Citing numbers that currently do not even exist (and will not until its creation is penned and real estimates from the parties involved are made) and claiming them as anything approaching factual to justify your argument is counter productive and fosters an unintelligent approach.
Neither you or I are qualified experts on whether or not the wall will be more or less effective than current methods, so I won't bother commenting on it.
This is how I see it..
Trump is a smart man, who says stupid shit.
Stupid people like stupid shit.
Stupid people vote smart guy who says stupid shit
Smart business guy uses it for personal benefit
Stupid people suddenly angry when stupid shit never happens because stupid shit was [b]impossible[/b] and was only a trick to get himself presidency
[QUOTE=Axznma;49811778]Surely then you must be directly involved in the construction and logistics? Otherwise, with claims such as you make, I might think you someone that knows little and has nothing of value to say on it.
Clearly the wall will cost money to build and obviously it will cost money to maintain and keep secured. Citing numbers that currently do not even exist (and will not until its creation is penned and real estimates from the parties involved are made) and claiming them as anything approaching factual to justify your argument is counter productive and fosters an unintelligent approach.
Neither you or I are qualified experts on whether or not the wall will be more or less effective than current methods, so I won't bother commenting on it.[/QUOTE]
So with trump at the helm government projects will no longer be bloated and inefficient?
Man trump supporters are strange. Never thought I'd hear them say big government would be effective cheap and timely
Why do you guys actually think a wall will work? Like, at all?
The human trafficking groups and the Mexican cartels are very well equipped groups for what they do. Punching holes in walls is quite easy when you have access to a shitload of weapons. Climbing over walls is also somewhat easy to perform. Going under is also an option if they can get the hardware/ literal slave labour needed to dig a tunnel.
And if building this wall is meant to lower the need for border patrols, then what good is the wall? You've now got a wall that can be bypassed by anybody who isn't actually brain damaged, but nobody to keep an eye on it in a large number of places.
Good work, you just spent +$10bn on a pretty long slab of concrete that doesn't really work.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;49812264]Why do you guys actually think a wall will work? Like, at all?
The human trafficking groups and the Mexican cartels are very well equipped groups for what they do. Punching holes in walls is quite easy when you have access to a shitload of weapons. Climbing over walls is also somewhat easy to perform. Going under is also an option if they can get the hardware/ literal slave labour needed to dig a tunnel.
And if building this wall is meant to lower the need for border patrols, then what good is the wall? You've now got a wall that can be bypassed by anybody who isn't actually brain damaged, but nobody to keep an eye on it in a large number of places.
Good work, you just spent +$10bn on a pretty long slab of concrete that doesn't really work.[/QUOTE]
hey it worked in china, and it'll work here too, right?
right?
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