Anatomy of an Afghan war tragedy - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Regulas021;29204835]Except that they don't take people without a diploma, and only take around 5000 GEDs at most a year (and even THEY need to have extremely high scores on the AFSAB)[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1706118,00.html[/url] [url]http://kotaku.com/#!5148693/xbox-helped-drone-pilot-be-all-he-could-be[/url] I thought you can't take the GED if you have a diploma [editline]16th April 2011[/editline] Unless by diploma you mean both The number of accepted dropouts has been decreasing lately however Either way, what I was talking about was whether or not the person can take the responsibility of being in the military, not their intelligence This type of behavior should not be accepted, and it's extremely embarrassing when it's recorded as well

They do this too much in Afghanistan, they really need to pick up their shit and stop killing innocents because they 'look' like Taliban insurgents.

[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;29201190]I dunno about airstrikes but I've read a lot of accounts of British Apache pilots and seen a lot of gun-cam footage and it doesn't exactly seem like a rigorously extensive and detailed process.[/QUOTE] Depends on the situation and the current ROE. If hostile forces has been confirmed in the area in serious numbers I think they are a little bit more flexible when giving authorization.

what's new.. this has happened too many times to count now, and yet we still have people coming in here being apologists

why am i not surpised? I wonder how many trigger happy cowboys are in the US military

[quote]By now, the Predator crew was sure that the men were Taliban. "This is definitely it, this is their force," the cameraman said.[b] "Praying? I mean, seriously, that's what they do."[/b] [b]"They're gonna do something nefarious,"[/b] the crew's intelligence coordinator chimed in. At 6:22 a.m., the drone pilot radioed an update: "All … are finishing up praying and rallying up near all three vehicles at this time." The camera operator watched the men climb back into the vehicles. [b]"Oh, sweet target," he said[/b].[/quote] Hmm... Okay, i see where you're going with-No, okay, read my lips. [b]Fuck You Ass-Hole[/b]

[QUOTE=ThePunisher1;29193205]How easily? Unless they actually started attacking the American troops, the best thing they could have done was keep an eye on them, not just assume that they are going to attack and open fire.[/QUOTE] Always fire first, deal with the political bullshit later. An empty hand is only one swipe away from holding a weapon. [editline]16th April 2011[/editline] But fuck up in a city and you should get court marshaled.

[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;29219090]Always fire first, deal with the political bullshit later. An empty hand is only one swipe away from holding a weapon. [editline]16th April 2011[/editline] But fuck up in a city and you should get court marshaled.[/QUOTE] This is not a game, good sir.

[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;29219090]Always fire first, deal with the political bullshit later. An empty hand is only one swipe away from holding a weapon. [editline]16th April 2011[/editline] But fuck up in a city and you should get court marshaled.[/QUOTE] Oh so you're saying if someones praying you should shoot them because you're suspicious of them doing something, based on what other people have done, its okay?

Why can't we all just get along? :smith:

[QUOTE=crackberry;29201036]People die in war all the time. Also, this isn't nearly as bad as when they were fighting the russians and they would bomb whole villages.[/QUOTE] Who is fucking talking about Russians? [editline]16th April 2011[/editline] And yeah, people die and war, doesn't make it right. [editline]16th April 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Regulas021;29203762]No, because it wasn't the only piece of evidence. In Afghanistan insurgents are known to pray before a battle (religious people praying before a conflict isn't exactly confided to the Middle East anyway), and this was a convoy of trucks driving directly towards an area US troops where operating. There was [I]also[/I] an unaccounted for group of insurgents about the same size in the area, which was why the drones where there in the first place. In addition to that, this isn't a movie. People say things that don't sound cunning, clever, witty, or, let's face it, even intelligent, all the time. If he'd said: "Okay, they're starting to pray now. From the evidence we've gathered after fighting in this country for nearly a decade, this makes them seem more like insurgents." It would have sounded more thoughtful and intelligent, and would have conveyed the same message. No one talks like that outside of a courtroom, though, because this isn't the 12th century and no one expects their every word to come under scrutiny.[/QUOTE] So if they show a pattern that is exhibited by pretty much everyone in the entire country, it's perfectly fine just to slaughter the whole lot of them?

This is why you never listen to intelligence. The CIA is known and regarded as one of the WORST secret services in the planet. They don't stay hidden, they don't get the right facts and never ever get directly involved. This is why the military has started to try and create its own intel division, which led to a lot of friction between the CIA and the Joint Chiefs. What makes this even better is that the military's new intel division is already doing a better job than the CIA.

I don't get it, did they kill the civilians they thought were insurgents?

You'd think that they'd realize that in one of the most devout Muslim countries on the planet, nearly everyone would do the obligatory Salah (5 times a day prayer).

[QUOTE=1239the;29202210]No, the issue is that you can have a multi-million dollar system of cameras, scanners, identification, and yet in the end the descision to turn them into paste or not is made by some bored 19 year old kid sitting in front of a monitor with a joystick in his hand.[/QUOTE] You think the cameras are some kind of super high def super tech cameras? As technologically advanced as it is, it is still a grainy picture and it still comes down to whos lives cost more, a possible insurgent, or an american. Protip: the answer is an american.

[QUOTE=VengfulSoldier;29221925]This is why you never listen to intelligence. The CIA is known and regarded as one of the WORST secret services in the planet. They don't stay hidden, they don't get the right facts and never ever get directly involved. This is why the military has started to try and create its own intel division, which led to a lot of friction between the CIA and the Joint Chiefs. What makes this even better is that the military's new intel division is already doing a better job than the CIA.[/QUOTE] It was the Air Force that fucked up not the CIA.

[QUOTE=VengfulSoldier;29221925]This is why you never listen to intelligence. The CIA is known and regarded as one of the WORST secret services in the planet. They don't stay hidden, they don't get the right facts and never ever get directly involved. This is why the military has started to try and create its own intel division, which led to a lot of friction between the CIA and the Joint Chiefs. What makes this even better is that the military's new intel division is already doing a better job than the CIA.[/QUOTE] You do realize that there's no such thing as a Splinter Cell-esque/Mission Impossible-esque intelligence agency right? The vast majority of the shit they do is advising friendly groups in whatever country they happen to be in without exposing themselves to hostile groups or gaining knowledge from said groups and directing airstrikes. The closest thing they do to whatever you think they do is secretly sending information back to their country while pretending to be part of the target country and even then it's usually from people within the country who decide to spy on their own country usually for money. And even rarer is the double agent.

[QUOTE=RBM11;29226850]You do realize that there's no such thing as a Splinter Cell-esque/Mission Impossible-esque intelligence agency right? The vast majority of the shit they do is advising friendly groups in whatever country they happen to be in without exposing themselves to hostile groups or gaining knowledge from said groups and directing airstrikes. The closest thing they do to whatever you think they do is secretly sending information back to their country while pretending to be part of the target country and even then it's usually from people within the country who decide to spy on their own country usually for money. And even rarer is the double agent.[/QUOTE] Then explain the number of fucked up drone drops.

[QUOTE=VengfulSoldier;29227461]Then explain the number of fucked up drone drops.[/QUOTE] What does that have to do with the CIA?

[QUOTE=Regulas021;29203762]No, because it wasn't the only piece of evidence.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=amute;29221865]So if they show a pattern that is exhibited by pretty much everyone in the entire country, it's perfectly fine just to slaughter the whole lot of them?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Regulas021;29203762]No, because it wasn't the only piece of evidence.[/QUOTE]

There was no other justification OR evidence. But keep pretending the military is innocent.

[QUOTE=jellal;29199904]Why Don't they just pack their bags and leave Afghanistan. That Land has a history of never being controlled, and the only man who was able to control it for a few decades was Alexander the Great and I highly Doubt that their is a American version of him.[/QUOTE] America needs to test their fancy weapons [I]somewhere[/I], that is why they are still throwing money and troops at afghanistan even when their country is in deep dept, and Obama promised that they would leave that place. [editline]17th April 2011[/editline] And sadly, half of the time it isn't the insurgents they test their weapons on as we have seen too many times.

Using the adjective [I]nefarious[/I] + blowing up a bunch of innocent civilians = Despicable human being

[QUOTE=RBM11;29226850]You do realize that there's no such thing as a Splinter Cell-esque/Mission Impossible-esque intelligence agency right? The vast majority of the shit they do is advising friendly groups in whatever country they happen to be in without exposing themselves to hostile groups or gaining knowledge from said groups and directing airstrikes. The closest thing they do to whatever you think they do is secretly sending information back to their country while pretending to be part of the target country and even then it's usually from people within the country who decide to spy on their own country usually for money. And even rarer is the double agent.[/QUOTE] Lmao While it's nothing like "mission impossible" I take it you've never heard of the CIA's Special Activities Division? "SAD/SOG has several hundred officers, almost all of them former members of special operations forces (SOF) and most from the Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC).[34]The CIA has also recruited individuals within the agency.[35] The CIA's formal position for these individuals is "Paramilitary Operations Officers." These officers are then fully trained as clandestine intelligence operatives, otherwise known in the vernacular as "Case officers". The primary strengths of SAD/SOG Paramilitary Officers are agility, adaptability, and deniability. They often operate in small teams, typically with six operators, all with extensive military special operations expertise and specialized skills that do not exist in any other unit.[9] As fully trained intelligence case officers they possess all the clandestine skills to collect HUMINT—and most importantly—to recruit assets from among the indigenous troops receiving their training. These officers often operate in remote locations behind enemy lines to carry out direct action (including raids and sabotage), conduct espionage by HUMINT assets, counter-intelligence, guerrilla or unconventional warfare (UW), and hostage rescue missions." Tl;dr version: bunch of highly trained dudes that kidnap people and shoot people.

And people wonder why the Middle East in general hates America. America has a very bloody history there.

[QUOTE=VengfulSoldier;29227461]Then explain the number of fucked up drone drops.[/QUOTE] The reason why so many people think that the CIA is just a huge bunch of fuckups is because the missions they succeed with is kept secret.

[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;29237370]Lmao While it's nothing like "mission impossible" I take it you've never heard of the CIA's Special Activities Division? "SAD/SOG has several hundred officers, almost all of them former members of special operations forces (SOF) and most from the Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC).[34]The CIA has also recruited individuals within the agency.[35] The CIA's formal position for these individuals is "Paramilitary Operations Officers." These officers are then fully trained as clandestine intelligence operatives, otherwise known in the vernacular as "Case officers". The primary strengths of SAD/SOG Paramilitary Officers are agility, adaptability, and deniability. They often operate in small teams, typically with six operators, all with extensive military special operations expertise and specialized skills that do not exist in any other unit.[9] As fully trained intelligence case officers they possess all the clandestine skills to collect HUMINT—and most importantly—[B]to recruit assets from among the indigenous troops receiving their training[/B]. These officers often operate in remote locations behind enemy lines to carry out direct action (including raids and sabotage), conduct espionage by HUMINT assets, counter-intelligence, guerrilla or unconventional warfare (UW), and hostage rescue missions." Tl;dr version: bunch of highly trained dudes that kidnap people and shoot people.[/QUOTE] Still not like splinter cell in any way. I did say the [B]majority[/B] doesn't do shit like I described. I'm bolding what I said in my post in yours. Raids of groups of up to about 6 people and guerrilla activities is about as close as they get. They don't infiltrate large complexes in one man teams though. I was only describing the CIA as a whole.

Wasn't Big Dumb American a UAV operator?

[QUOTE=Zambies!;29245409]Wasn't Big Dumb American a UAV operator?[/QUOTE] he was medically discharged unfortunately i don't think he actually got to fly them outside of training tho im not sure

Tragic.. I hear this happens all the time there [editline]18th April 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=lorden;29221748]Why can't we all just get along? :smith:[/QUOTE] Because we're humans. Humans are fucking retarded.