Vegans and Vegetarians butthurt over £5 note containing trace elements of tallow. - Polidicks

I think minimizing suffering and environmental impact is important, but not all of our animal husbandry activities are environmentally detrimental. Bees are absolutely vital pollinators and a lot of apiarists do a good job keeping their hives healthy, happy, and seeding wild bee populations. Aquacultured mussels and clams actually clean up lots of pollution provided their biomass ends up exported from the water systems. Their shells also improve soil quality, and that's part of why the trees in the pacific northwest grew to the sizes they did.

Now that those bills are made vegans might as well use them. It's not like it will increase demand for more £5 bills.

Let me know when they start killing animals for the sole purpose of printing money.

If you don't want to use the money then don't use it. More cash for everyone else.

This is an honest question to Europeans. How often do you use physical money? I haven't used physical money for anything other than an occasional thing in over a decade.

out of everything to be mad at its a little piece of material in a dollar note

[QUOTE=Aztec;51448437]This is an honest question to Europeans. How often do you use physical money? I haven't used physical money for anything other than an occasional thing in over a decade.[/QUOTE] Fairly often when I don't want it to show on bank statements or when I'm setting myself a spending limit for the day, I'd only take out 5/10/20 and use that for the day. [editline].[/editline] As for the backlash on this, I understand why they'd be upset but come on, tallow is a processed byproduct that's used in a lot of plastics because its a great polymer agent and its widely available, hell it wont be put far that a lot of people who are Vegan/Vegetarian are actually using products which contain processed goods from animals, mostly animal fats in plastics because its so damn common its stupid. Its better to be used than to be thrown and left to rot in a landfill, animals are raised for more than just food and its better to use the whole animal than just select parts, we've worked to do this in the past and it's just got even more advanced as time goes on, we use more parts of an animal for processed goods than we've done in the past (but we still do have the problem of where supermarkets force most of the poorer cuts to get thrown which is a shame, some of those are great and the only way to get them now is by going to an actual butcher, which if you have one you should certainly use if you eat meat).

[QUOTE=Aztec;51448329] Rice and beans will [B]always[/B] be more cost effective than any form of meat product just based on price and shelf life alone. Might not be interesting but what you said is just false. Also the only reason it's cheaper is because of artificial pressures put on the market. It doesn't make sense in a free market for meat which has to be raised on plants to be cheaper than just plain plants.[/QUOTE] There is no way in hell I could meet all of my dietary needs primarily with rice and beans. I'm looking at ~180g of protein a day. Soybeans are maybe the most efficient bean in terms of protein content clocking in around 40% of their caloric value being protein derived. I'd have to eat ~500g of soybeans to get a third of my daily needs, and that ~500g of beans comes at a cost of ~1600 calories. My TDEE is 3400 calories. I can get the same protein out of 160g of chicken breast for 260 calories. I could maybe supplement my methionine with a bunch of other products and reduce the amount of soybeans I have to eat, but most combinations are going to either be expensive (sesame flour is one of the more efficient options and often goes for ~$16 a kg) and they won't solve my caloric budgeting.

the cows that we have today were bred and evolved for these purposes. to deny the use of tallow is to deny the cow a purpose and it also means you want your animal buddies to die in vain just so you can pat yourself on the back atop a high-horse if it were up to vegans, we'd have no cattle, and cows would've never existed, meaning their species would be lost with the extinction of aurochs.

[QUOTE=1legmidget;51448535]There is no way in hell I could meet all of my dietary needs primarily with rice and beans. I'm looking at ~180g of protein a day. Soybeans are maybe the most efficient bean in terms of protein content clocking in around 40% of their caloric value being protein derived. I'd have to eat ~500g of soybeans to get a third of my daily needs, and that ~500g of beans comes at a cost of ~1600 calories. My TDEE is 3400 calories. I can get the same protein out of 160g of chicken breast for 260 calories. I could maybe supplement my methionine with a bunch of other products and reduce the amount of soybeans I have to eat, but most combinations are going to either be expensive (sesame flour is one of the more efficient options and often goes for ~$16 a kg) and they won't solve my caloric budgeting.[/QUOTE] You can't meet all your dietary needs with just meat either. That wasn't the point. Also your daily needs are a little ridiculous unless you weight train. No one needs that much protein to live. [editline]30th November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Mr Clean;51448548]and it also means you want your animal buddies to die in vain just so you can pat yourself on the back atop a high-horse if it were up to vegans, we'd have no cattle, and cows would've never existed, meaning their species would be lost with the extinction of aurochs.[/QUOTE] Barring biodiversity I don't really get why domestic cows going extinct would be bad for anyone assuming there was a replacement for them. Cows don't care that their species is going extinct. Most cows don't even get to raise their own young let alone ponder about the continuation of their race.

Im a vegetarian and I wear leather shoes. I bet most vegans do too.

[QUOTE=Aztec;51448594]You can't meet all your dietary needs with just meat either. That wasn't the point.[/QUOTE] I don't have the caloric leeway to meet the rest of my dietary needs with my wallet if I go primarily plant based. [QUOTE] Also your daily needs are a little ridiculous unless you weight train. No one needs that much protein to live.[/QUOTE] I do weight train, amongst other things. My needs aren't typical of the average individual, but that's kind of my point. Without knowing people's specific needs or situation it's really hard to give sound dietary advice.

[QUOTE=Aztec;51448437]This is an honest question to Europeans. How often do you use physical money? I haven't used physical money for anything other than an occasional thing in over a decade.[/QUOTE] IIRC it's not as easy in many European countries to 100% go off of debit/credit cards. And most of them make using it less of a pain in the ass by including tax in the listed price. No fucking about with 8.675 or whatever the tax rate is before you get to the register, $20 is $20.

I'm a vegan. Been a vegan all my life. I was brought up that way, and I'll die that way. No, I'm not burning all my notes over this, but nevertheless I am a little disturbed. I mean, I'm not gonna go into detail because I don't really wanna get into any fights with non-vegans (and the majority of people here, I somehow get the feeling), but in short, if I've spent literally my whole life standing up to something I feel so strongly against, and to discover the amorality is in something I use everyday, then I'm gonna be at least a little upset. Regardless of what it is, it would upset anyone who cared.

Didn't mcdonalds used to use tallow as the fat for the fries? Then people got paranoid about saturated fats and they replaced it with something actually bad (trans fats).

[QUOTE=Aztec;51448329]This entire thread is an anti-vegan echo chamber. This is fabricated outrage at like a few people tweeting some things. Rice and beans will always be more cost effective than any form of meat product just based on price and shelf life alone. Might not be interesting but what you said is just false. Also the only reason it's cheaper is because of artificial pressures put on the market. It doesn't make sense in a free market for meat which has to be raised on plants to be cheaper than just plain plants.[/QUOTE] Non-vegan here, completely agree. Basic understanding of Trophic levels validate the point. People just don't know what to eat when they hear "vegetarian" or "vegan." My girlfriend is vegan, and I sometimes share meals with her, completely filling and it fulfills my macro counts, yes even protein. Also, veg*n just means vegan and vegetarian inclusively. Not some sort of extremist saying.

this creates no new demand for animal products, it's likely being used because it's the cheapest fat that works for their purposes, so I don't really see the problem. being vegan should be about minimizing the harm you cause to animals and this causes none [QUOTE=MR-X;51447573]It also involves making sure everyone knows![/QUOTE] people eat many times a day, why is it always a surprise to people that they let you know they're veg*n when food is a topic constantly brought up in normal life [QUOTE=James xX;51447458]Meat contains a lot of the essential amino acids that the human body can't make itself. While you can find all of these amino acids in vegetarian or vegan alternatives, you would need to have such variaty in such quantity that to be as healthy as someone eating meat would cost a fortune over any extended period.[/QUOTE] uhh, there's so many simple ways to get sufficient complete proteins, it's not even a thought that enters my brain because eating normally happens to cover it very easily [QUOTE=SA Spyder;51447119]Let's be honest now - a fucking burger isn't what's killing these animals.[/QUOTE] this is such a silly picture, ignoring the fact that just because a product can be made with animal products doesn't mean they always are, this is association fallacy. the meat / milk is the primary reason these byproducts exist, are cheap, and are used [QUOTE=GunFox;51446846]Because cattle are raised often on land unsuited for agriculture. It is physically impossible to adequately serve the dietary needs of humanity through pure plant matter at this time.[/QUOTE] I don't understand this at all, how can using more food for less food be better for the dietary needs of the world? the vast majority of soy grown in the world is used as animal feed and is a 2.5-20:1 loss of food depending on the animal

[QUOTE=SA Spyder;51447119][img]http://outdooroverload.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/No-Such-Thing-As-A-Vegan.jpg[/img] Let's be honest now - a fucking burger isn't what's killing these animals.[/QUOTE] Does that say pasta in the blood area? Or posta? Just FYI, these things aren't [U]solely[/U] made from cows, I think this picture is a bit sensational in making it seem they are.

Vegans contribute to animals dying by using glue, cars, and a billion other things and now money great job vegans you are causing the genocide of millions!

[QUOTE=Vegetable;51448817]I'm a vegan. Been a vegan all my life. I was brought up that way, and I'll die that way. No, I'm not burning all my notes over this, but nevertheless I am a little disturbed. I mean, I'm not gonna go into detail because I don't really wanna get into any fights with non-vegans (and the majority of people here, I somehow get the feeling), but in short, if I've spent literally my whole life standing up to something I feel so strongly against, and to discover the amorality is in something I use everyday, then I'm gonna be at least a little upset. Regardless of what it is, it would upset anyone who cared.[/QUOTE] im vegan too, don't really get the outrage. there's substantially more damage to the environment/animal life in the computers we're using to argue about trace amounts of animal product being used in the currency. I'm betting there's even other things in the currency itself that are far more harmful than the tallow that would've existed regardless of its use in currency

Don't all bills have trace amounts of cocaine? maybe we should bitch about that too just think of all the people being subjected to all of that cocaine!

[QUOTE=Vasili;51448920]Does that say pasta in the blood area? Or posta? Just FYI, these things aren't [U]solely[/U] made from cows, I think this picture is a bit sensational in making it seem they are.[/QUOTE] I really hope there isn't anyone that actually believes that solely cows are used to create charcoal, glass, wallpaper and fireworks :v: [editline]30th November 2016[/editline] It says posta btw I zoomed in

[QUOTE=bitches;51447331]As science advances it has in many cases turned the industry away from animal products. Why raise an animal so it can inefficiently provide a product that a lab can cook up in a gigantic vat?[/QUOTE] It will be cheaper too. Cattle are inefficient. Lab grown meat is about 50 percent more energy efficient. It also would produce about 95% less greenhouse gas. Now the reality is that you are still eating animal flesh though. The best printed meats are ones that are still using cultured animal cells. I don't generally imagine most people will have an issue with that though.

[QUOTE=Shadaez;51448919]I don't understand this at all, how can using more food for less food be better for the dietary needs of the world? the vast majority of soy grown in the world is used as animal feed and is a 2.5-20:1 loss of food depending on the animal[/QUOTE] It's kinda silly also because a huge amount of land used for cattle raising is in the rain forest and the practices they use make the land unsuitable for cattle raising after a short amount of time. That isn't sustainable. [editline]30th November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=GunFox;51449127]It will be cheaper too. Cattle are inefficient. Lab grown meat is about 50 percent more energy efficient. It also would produce about 95% less greenhouse gas. Now the reality is that you are still eating animal flesh though. The best printed meats are ones that are still using cultured animal cells. I don't generally imagine most people will have an issue with that though.[/QUOTE] I am a vegan for ethical reasons and wouldn't have any problem eating meat that was grown from lab grown tissue.

[IMG]https://i.imgsafe.org/ea6ecad69f.png[/IMG]

Veganism always seemed too extreme to me, but as long as people are managing their diets correctly ensuring they get what they need and aren't, pushing their beliefs on others, it's fine.

Two of my friends are vegan and they don't care about this. They do it mostly for health reasons.

Why the hell would you have animal fat in your pound bills in the first place? It's not difficult to understand how Vegans who are ethically against supporting the meat and dairy industries are disturbed by this.

[QUOTE=GunFox;51449127]It will be cheaper too. Cattle are inefficient. Lab grown meat is about 50 percent more energy efficient. It also would produce about 95% less greenhouse gas. Now the reality is that you are still eating animal flesh though. The best printed meats are ones that are still using cultured animal cells. I don't generally imagine most people will have an issue with that though.[/QUOTE] I wonder if cows will hit near-extinction after lab grown meat is the norm. A staggering amount of cows are able to live and reproduce so that we can eat them, and without that we don't have a ton of use for them (besides milk/novelty).

10 or so vegans are angsty on twitter, thousands of nonvegans get angsty about them [editline]30th November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Bertie;51449972]Why the hell would you have animal fat in your pound bills in the first place? It's not difficult to understand how Vegans who are ethically against supporting the meat and dairy industries are disturbed by this.[/QUOTE] They found it to be the best thing for its given job. Whats so hard to understand [editline]30th November 2016[/editline] A cow wouldnt be killed for the sole purpose of getting its fat turned into a fiver