• Watch: Animal rights activist storms restaurant and tells diners they’re eating her chicken
    301 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;46181994]animals cant give consent because they aren't sapient[/QUOTE] Just because something is unable to give consent doesn't mean that it's okay with you killing it ...
[QUOTE=Paku;46181991][B]It's definitely better than meat production[/B], we just need to figure out what to do with all the domesticated animals that will just all die if we stop eating them.[/QUOTE] source on this?
Buh-baw-baw-back yo ass out of here!
[QUOTE=SenhorCreeper;46181993]Bodybuilders are bodybuilders, they will do anything everyday to get a good body and health because its either their hobby or their self-esteem is in the shitter. but a soy diet is really bad too, if you're not a bodybuilder and just want to live a normal live without having problems ahead and dying young, don't be [I]those[/I] vegans.[/QUOTE] I said that a soy diet is bad for your health, you don't need soy to be a vegan bodybuilder.
[QUOTE=Paku;46182008]I said that a soy diet is bad for your health, you don't need soy to be a vegan bodybuilder.[/QUOTE] well I never said bodybuilders only need soy.
[QUOTE=Paku;46181996]No shit, but there's literally no reason to kill them other than selfish reasons. The world doesn't need meat to sustain its population.[/QUOTE] It doesn't need electricity either. THINK OF THE TREES!
[QUOTE=Smoot;46182037]It doesn't need electricity either. THINK OF THE TREES![/QUOTE] I love all this collective shitposting, it's a rare sight when the entire thread is composed of hypocrites shitposting. That's when you know that it's a meat related issue.
[QUOTE=Paku;46181969]I agree about your point in what will happen to the animals if released into the wild.[/quote] Brutally slaughtered by bears, wolfs, killed by various diseases, etc depending on where you let it into the wild from. I don't think animals are just going to say "let's kill this without any pain or hey why not start eating plants" [quote]But your first point about humane argument isn't really an argument either. All you're saying is that it's better than brutally killing it. It's still not humane.[/QUOTE] You're right we should all kill ourselves because then no animals would get hurt Except for fish being ripped out of the water, asphyxiated and eaten by bears worms being eaten alive by birds bison mauled by wolves ....shit Life ain't exactly pretty and I don't think anyone will say the food chain is pretty in the slightest, but it's how things work. Killing a cow for food is still killing a cow for food, while debating killing for food and it's "humane" nature is debatable, the "no pain felt" is more humane than most any other spices on the planet.
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;46182077]Brutally slaughtered by bears, wolfs, killed by various diseases, etc depending on where you let it into the wild from. I don't think animals are just going to say "let's kill this without any pain or hey why not start eating plants" You're right we should all kill ourselves because then no animals would get hurt Except for fish being ripped out of the water, asphyxiated and eaten by bears worms being eaten alive by birds bison mauled by wolves ....shit Life ain't exactly pretty and I don't think anyone will say the food chain is pretty in the slightest, but it's how things work. Killing a cow for food is still killing a cow for food, while debating killing for food and it's "humane" nature is debatable, the "no pain felt" is more humane than most any other spices on the planet.[/QUOTE] The point is, we don't need meat. We don't need to kill animals, we have a choice. We aren't controlled soely by our instincts, we have a choice to cause 0% harm. We just choose not to. [editline]8th October 2014[/editline] Just watch this (the whole video) If you aren't convinced by this then, I would love to hear your response on it. [video=youtube;es6U00LMmC4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es6U00LMmC4[/video]
[QUOTE=Paku;46182091]The point is, we don't need meat. We don't need to kill animals, we have a choice.[/quote] There is still no viable alternative for the amounts of vitamins, minerals, and proteins that can be cost effectively produced for the masses, on top of that there is no alternative that provides those same benefits that can be stored as long as meat can. Without access to the amount of nutrition we need we tend to get sick and die. [quote]We aren't controlled soely by our instincts, [B]we have a choice to cause 0% harm.[/B] We just choose not to.[/QUOTE] There is no food source that does not cause 0% harm. Plants feel pain(to some extent), farms require vast landscapes that remove wildlife from their natural habitat and reroute irrigation, and the list goes on.
[QUOTE=Paku;46181978]That may be the only way it could be considered humane, but don't forget that this is being done without the animals consent.[/QUOTE] Oh so NOW killings humane when you want it to? Listen, everyone in this thread knows exactly the type of shitty argument you try to make with "How is any killing humane?" we have all heard it and you arent coming up with anything new or smart. Killing is not a humane act but you can kill something in a more humane way, as in, you can personally be MORE humane in the way you kill an animal. You are not making the act of killing humane, you are making the process of killing more humane.
I choose to harm and therefore kill and eat meat, as do other predators that exist. Man is a predator - to suggest otherwise is be far up your own ass and ignore pretty much all of recorded human history, and our innate biology. Veganism is fine, if you have smoke kind of medical disorder that requires that kind of diet. Otherwise a balanced diet which includes everything, including an intake of red meat occasionally, the healthiest choice. The arguement that we can overcome our inherent nature I find actually an appalling viewpoint. The deluded people that make their dogs / cats eat vegan food get me exceptionally pissed off.
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;46182128]There is still no viable alternative for the amounts of vitamins, minerals, and proteins that can be cost effectively produced for the masses, on top of that there is no alternative that provides those same benefits that can be stored as long as meat can. Without access to the amount of nutrition we need we tend to get sick and die. There is no food source that does not cause 0% harm. Plants feel pain(to some extent), farms require vast landscapes that remove wildlife from their natural habitat and reroute irrigation, and the list goes on.[/QUOTE] Plants don't feel pain, response to stimuli isn't pain. This is where the bullshit starts, I really suggest you watch the video and then make up your mind. [editline]8th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Deathbane;46182147]I choose to harm and therefore kill and eat meat, as do other predators that exist. Man is a predator - to suggest otherwise is be far up your own ass. Veganism is fine, if you have smoke kind of medical disorder that requires that kind of diet. Otherwise a balanced diet which includes everything, including an intake of red meat occasionally, the healthiest choice. The arguement that we can overcome our inherent nature I find actually an appalling viewpoint. The deluded people that make their dogs / cats eat vegan food get me exceptionally pissed off.[/QUOTE] Meat is an acquired taste, you don't crave it when you're a baby. Humans aren't predators. You can have a healthy diet that includes meat and one that doesn't. The point is that production of meat includes alot of suffering and slaughter. Watch the video. Oprah's vegan challenge is also nice [video=youtube;lgbrOdEcYEQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgbrOdEcYEQ[/video]
[QUOTE=RobbL;46181491] Not saying that we should drop meat all together, but seeing as by 2050 food production may need to double, we will NEED to cut down on the amount of meat we eat and switch to more efficient ways of growing that meat we do eat.[/QUOTE] Generally speaking, much of North America eats far too much meat for the average person. Reducing that level to more reasonable levels would go a long way to improving health among other things.
The vegans that feed their pets vegan food aren't trying to make their pets vegan. They don't want to support the meat industry by buying meat products -___-
[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;46181564]I do not care for any of those points. I eat meat because meat is delicious. I am Satan himself for that. I hope theres meat in hell. If there is, its gonna be a wonderful stay. Come at me Flyingman :^)[/QUOTE] The best thing about hell is the free fire on which you can grill your barbeque on
[QUOTE=Paku;46182150]Humans aren't predators.[/QUOTE] What the fuck? Yes, we are. Since the fucking cavepeople we have hunted and killed animals in increasingly more efficient ways to feed ourselves and others. We didn't just decide "well I might chew on this animal for a bit, hey, that's awesome!", there would have been some instinctual drive at that time to make us want to kill and eat other animals. We have teeth, and organs, that are pretty great at getting through meat, if we were meant to be herbivores we would have teeth and organs more suited to digesting just that matter. But we don't, we have that lovely middle ground where we can eat both.
[QUOTE=Paku;46182150]Plants don't feel pain, response to stimuli isn't pain. This is where the bullshit starts, I really suggest you watch the video and then make up your mind. [editline]8th October 2014[/editline] Meat is an acquired taste, you don't crave it when you're a baby. Humans aren't predators. You can have a healthy diet that includes meat and one that doesn't. The point is that production of meat includes alot of suffering and slaughter. Watch the video. [/QUOTE] For many people around the world, meat is a natural part of their diet. Also, there is absolutely no food source out there that doesn't require something or someone being harmed. And humans aren't predators? What? How do you think we even got to this point? By being scavengers and picking up after all of the other predators? How can meat be an acquired taste if almost everybody on the planet consumes a kind of meat in their diet, and starts doing so from a young age?
[QUOTE=hexpunK;46182208]What the fuck? Yes, we are. Since the fucking cavepeople we have hunted and killed animals in increasingly more efficient ways to feed ourselves and others. We didn't just decide "well I might chew on this animal for a bit, hey, that's awesome!", there would have been some instinctual drive at that time to make us want to kill and eat other animals. We have teeth, and organs, that are pretty great at getting through meat, if we were meant to be herbivores we would have teeth and organs more suited to digesting just that matter. But we don't, we have that lovely middle ground where we can eat both.[/QUOTE] We can be predators if we want to, but we aren't carnivores and we don't NEED to hunt animals.
[QUOTE=Paku;46182194]The vegans that feed their pets vegan food aren't trying to make their pets vegan. They don't want to support the meat industry by buying meat products -___-[/QUOTE] The vegans that feed their pets vegan meals are starving them of the nutrients their bodies need. The meat industry isn't some mechanical monster, it is necessary for the survival of most people worldwide.
[QUOTE=TAU!;46182211]For many people around the world, meat is a natural part of their diet. Also, there is absolutely no food source out there that doesn't require something or someone being harmed. And humans aren't predators? What? How do you think we even got to this point? By being scavengers and picking up after all of the other predators? How can meat be an acquired taste if almost everybody on the planet consumes a kind of meat in their diet, and starts doing so from a young age?[/QUOTE] We don't start eating meat from a young age, we start being fed meat from a young age. please note the difference.
[QUOTE=Paku;46182091]The point is, we don't need meat. We don't need to kill animals, we have a choice. We aren't controlled soely by our instincts, we have a choice to cause 0% harm. We just choose not to. [editline]8th October 2014[/editline] Just watch this (the whole video) If you aren't convinced by this then, I would love to hear your response on it. [video=youtube;es6U00LMmC4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es6U00LMmC4[/video][/QUOTE] thanks for gearing me up for lunch
[QUOTE=Paku;46182223]We can be predators if we want to, but we aren't carnivores and we don't NEED to hunt animals.[/QUOTE] We aren't herbivores either.
[QUOTE=TAU!;46182230]The vegans that feed their pets vegan meals are starving them of the nutrients their bodies need. The meat industry isn't some mechanical monster, it is necessary for the survival of most people worldwide.[/QUOTE] This is not true, all the nutrients can be added artificially and they're definitely not harming their pets. They're obviously being selfish because they know they can't make their pets vegan, they just don't want to support the meat industry.
[QUOTE=Paku;46182223]We can be predators if we want to, but we aren't carnivores and we don't NEED to hunt animals.[/QUOTE] But plenty of people still do. There are lots of people that make a living off of hunting and fishing as well.
[QUOTE=Paku;46182223]We can be predators if we want to, but we aren't carnivores and we don't NEED to hunt animals.[/QUOTE] Well, it's a good thing we don't hunt animals then really. We purposefully bred almost everything we eat today to make it more edible. We are working on methods of just obtaining the meat itself, without having to use the animal because we know there are problems with the farming process. The answer isn't to just stop eating meat, because meat is pretty great with the plethora of ways it can be prepared. The answer is for us to actually push lab growing, a lump of meat can't fart if it's not eating after all. It's just meat.
[QUOTE=Ogopogo;46182234]We aren't herbivores either.[/QUOTE] I never said that we're herbivores, We're Omnivores and this is what gives us a choice. You can have a healthy diet that includes meat and one that doesn't. Instead of listing to me, I suggest you watch the 1 hour long video. I would love to hear your reponses to that video, I couldn't really find any after I finished it.
[QUOTE=Paku;46182194]The vegans that feed their pets vegan food aren't trying to make their pets vegan. They don't want to support the meat industry by buying meat products -___-[/QUOTE] Which is bullshit since everything they touch is made by killing animals and eating them. Those truckers that drive around to transport vegan food probably aren't vegan themselves. Then there is the whole oil industry which has workers that are probably meat eaters too. And then all the components inside of all the vehicles needed to produce and transport vegan food. Animals are not only used for food, they are made up of materials which we use to produce so many things like shoes, jackets (just think about anything leather), cow dung as fertilizer, etc etc etc... [t]http://factsaboutbeef.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/cow-in-my-marshmallow-48x24_page_1.jpg[/t] Try producing that stuff with soy beans. If you are truly a vegan, you would only walk around naked because you won't be able to produce clothes by yourself with your tiny little garden.
[QUOTE=Paku;46182247][B]This is not true, all the nutrients can be added artificially and they're definitely not harming their pets.[/B] They're obviously being selfish because they know they can't make their pets vegan, they just don't want to support the meat industry.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/24/kitten-vegan-diet-nearly-dies_n_3644213.html[/url] [url]http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/west/kitten-nearly-dies-from-vegan-diet/story-fngnvmj7-1226682108386?nk=a53bb52c054778ca84e35e1f04e2405c[/url] [url]http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/vegankitten.asp[/url] [url]http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/09/25/vegan-diet-dangers.aspx[/url] [url]http://www.petmd.com/blogs/nutritionnuggets/cat/jcoates/2013/aug/vegetarian-diet-nearly-kills-kitten-30848[/url] [url]http://thatdogdancingguy.com.au/2013/07/22/news-kitten-nearly-dies-from-vegan-diet/[/url]
[QUOTE=Paku;46181996]No shit, but there's literally no reason to kill them other than selfish reasons. The world doesn't need meat to sustain its population.[/QUOTE] Now i don't have any time-machine to travel back in time and confirm what researchers claim in books/lectures/etc, but for arguments sake lets pretend they are right with the human species and its beginning. If we only lived on berry's and plants in the olden days (line-cloth wearing spear throwers) it would be sensible to kill an animal in defense. It would then also be reasonable to use all the resources this animal would provide (pelt, bones, meat, etc). This way we kill a animal only for protection and took the advantages it gave instead of letting it just rote. This might have begun as a defensive mechanism but over time has then escalated to be used for hunting for food. Probably because of taste and how much "easier" it was to kill one animal for food instead of spending hours in berry gathering and the pelt/bones for warmth and tools is nice. Is it a good thing? Who knows, this just raises the "What if" question which cannot be answered or at least will start a discussion with no end. Now boost forward to our time. Could we survive with dropping to kill animals for food and just kill them when it is necessary to keep us and ours safe? Would we survive getting protein from other sources then meat? Could we grow enough natural material to produce enough for the whole world? What long term effects would it cause the planet letting domestically animals lose in the wild? These are all good question. We humans are very survivable and can probably go for generations if not forever without eating meat. But would the world or race suffer from it? I know that you and i have to completely different views on killing of animals so we are probably never gonna agree there. But we need to find a solution. We both have the same problem, we are destroying the world, is there any way of saving it?
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