• Watch: Animal rights activist storms restaurant and tells diners they’re eating her chicken
    301 replies, posted
[QUOTE=hexpunK;46182250]Well, it's a good thing we don't hunt animals then really. We purposefully bred almost everything we eat today to make it more edible. We are working on methods of just obtaining the meat itself, without having to use the animal because we know there are problems with the farming process. The answer isn't to just stop eating meat, because meat is pretty great with the plethora of ways it can be prepared. The answer is for us to actually push lab growing, a lump of meat can't fart if it's not eating after all. It's just meat.[/QUOTE] In-vitro meat could be a really good solution, I agree.
I'll never be able to agree with these peoples' views, I swear. Earth is [B]not[/B] some kind of flowery hugbox of animal life singing Hakuna Matata in unison under a smiley-faced sun, with humans being exempt because we're "unnatural", as some of these sorts of people seem to believe. More accurately, our solar system and Earth specifically are the biggest Thunderdomes in the known universe. Literally everything from the microbes to the planets and their parent star are fighting to survive as long as possible, against forces both living and non-living that will eventually win and destroy them. You can't ever win in this world we call home, but instead just delay failure long enough to have and raise offspring. On a more relatable scale, it's still a bloodbath here among macroscopic Earth life. Plants are injured and killed by herbivores for sustenance, herbivores are killed by predators, predators are killed by other predators, and microbial life screws everything else over. Everything dies partially or fully to feed something else, except in rare symbiotic cases. I suppose you can say humans are unnatural, in the sense that we looked at looming death and said, "fuck that, I wanna live". We're the only species on Earth with the mental faculties to defy and supercede evolution itself for the sake of finding a higher purpose that we ourselves define. We've decided to show compassion and understanding to other lifeforms who can rarely even comprehend it, let alone reciprocate it too like dogs do. Compassion is mostly a human thing. Sure, some animals show compassion for others of their species or in extremely-rare cases other species, but the vast majority don't care and are biologically incapable of doing so from what our scientific endeavours have shown. We might feel bad about eating a cow that was slaughtered humanely, but you can bet your ass that a lion wouldn't care a single bit as it dug in, even while the cow was still alive and moaning in pain. Eating the remains of other lifeforms isn't evil or wrong, it's how almost everything survives in one form or another on this planet. Animals that eat meat aren't evil, since that's what their bodies are engineered to use as fuel (as are our own) and they cannot typically feel compassion towards prey, so why is it suddenly bad to these people when we do it? If it's unnecessarily-cruel raising and slaughter methods, I can understand being pissed. However, just the fact that we mass-raise and slaughter animals is not something to reasonably get mad over. It's a hell of a lot more humane than hunting like other predators do, since the food animals' deaths in slaughterhouses don't involve slowly bleeding out from injuries and/or being torn apart while still alive by predators. We have to kill to eat properly, at least until sustainable alternatives that provide the same necessary nutrients and energy are found and put into mass-production. We're omnivorous predators, and while plants can provide some nutrition, we do best with the full package of meat and veggies, that's just how it is. Besides, we're downright kind and compassionate about it compared to the rest of the Earth and its wildlife, which often doesn't give a single shit about the feelings of any other lifeform. We're the only predators on Earth that feel guilt and sorrow for doing what almost any other lifeform does without a thought. We try to see the sparks of thought and emotion in things that lack the proper mental power to experience them in any way we can understand, causing us to treat them like fellow humans even if it makes no difference to them. Domesticated dogs and cats very obviously have these sparks of thought and emotion, but that's mostly because they've been around so many generations of humans that intelligent, human-synchronized behavior has been bred into them. And, in the event that we encounter wildlife which does naturally have anything remotely close to our capacity for thought and emotion, such as apes and some big cats, it often makes little-to-no use of these abilities until we bring them out with training and prolonged friendly contact. To sum it all up, we're the only predators that naturally feel guilt for doing what we're made to do. We invented compassion and sorrow on the level that we know these feelings, and we allow ourselves to be overly-affected by these feelings regarding prey animals. While farmers and slaughterhouses should obviously work toward being as humane as possible, and science should keep working toward engineering meat in labs to skip killing animals altogether, it's still a bit nonsensical to be angry over the basic concept of eating other animals.
[QUOTE=Flyingman356;46181311]-You don't need meat -The meat industry is one of the number one causes of greenhouse gas emissions -The meat industry is one of the main reasons countries all over the world are in water shortages -The meat industry is the reason antibiotic resistant superbugs are evolving -Humane killing, lol, next we should try cold fire[/QUOTE] Where are your citations?
[QUOTE=Paku;46182256][B]I never said that we're herbivores, We're Omnivores and this is what gives us a choice.[/B] You can have a healthy diet that includes meat and one that doesn't. Instead of listing to me, I suggest you watch the 1 hour long video. I would love to hear your reponses to that video, I couldn't really find any after I finished it.[/QUOTE] You do not understand that for hundreds of millions, even a few billion people, there is absolutely no access to vegan choices and meat is one of the most common choices for eating. How about you go to an impoverished region of the globe and tell them this, I promise you they will either laugh at you or ignore you completely. Yes, we have plenty of choices, but not everyone has that choice. Also, not everyone has the funds to pay for a vegan diet (hell, at most markets and grocery stores, just getting some fruits and vegetables is expensive).
[QUOTE=TAU!;46182258][url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/24/kitten-vegan-diet-nearly-dies_n_3644213.html[/url] [url]http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/west/kitten-nearly-dies-from-vegan-diet/story-fngnvmj7-1226682108386?nk=a53bb52c054778ca84e35e1f04e2405c[/url] [url]http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/vegankitten.asp[/url] [url]http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/09/25/vegan-diet-dangers.aspx[/url] [url]http://www.petmd.com/blogs/nutritionnuggets/cat/jcoates/2013/aug/vegetarian-diet-nearly-kills-kitten-30848[/url] [url]http://thatdogdancingguy.com.au/2013/07/22/news-kitten-nearly-dies-from-vegan-diet/[/url][/QUOTE] There are a lot of idiots that don't know how to properly feed their pets with vegan food. The same can happen with any other food (idiots giving chocolate to their dogs/cats) I have a vegan friend that gives vegan food to his dog and he takes him to the veterinary doctor every month and takes blood tests to make sure his dog is doing fine, I looked at them myself and they're completely normal. [editline]8th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=TAU!;46182281]You do not understand that for hundreds of millions, even a few billion people, there is absolutely no access to vegan choices and meat is one of the most common choices for eating. How about you go to an impoverished region of the globe and tell this this, I promise you they will either laugh at you or ignore you completely. Yes, we have plenty of choices, but not everyone has that choice. Also, not everyone has the funds to pay for a vegan diet (hell, at most markets and grocery stores, just getting some fruits and vegetables is expensive).[/QUOTE] No one is expecting the world to turn vegan in 24 hours, this is something that takes time. People just need to realize that this needs to happen.
Artificially adding nutrients to a vegan meal is good, yes, and it'd be great if in the future we wouldn't have to slaughter animals in order to sustain ourselves. But right now, that isn't happening, and it likely won't happen for a very long time. If we could just clone meat effectively, that'd be great as well since it would greatly minimize how many animals are slaughtered, or it could get rid of raising and slaughtering animals completely. But then what? All of those people who make their livelyhood (and likely have been doing that for generations) will be out of work. So then what?
[QUOTE=Paku;46182091] Just watch this (the whole video) If you aren't convinced by this then, I would love to hear your response on it. [video=youtube;es6U00LMmC4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es6U00LMmC4[/video][/QUOTE] 15 minutes in and I can tell everything I need to know. 1. He compares feeding on meat to rape, then rape to the holocaust. This is literally the lowest form of arguing possible, this alone tells me he isn't going to bring up any sort of biological research on things but try to win me over via emotions and as of 15:02 he is doing just that; playing emotions without leading into any kind of facts. 2.He goes into specism and says it is discrimination; However, never acknowledges the fact that cannibalism is a real thing and still practiced around the world in many tribes and third world countries where food is scarce. 3. Starts off most of his "statistics" with numbers and "In America", without providing any sources on his power point and only has links to his blog, bio, and what the holocaust was. 4. Brings up political parties for literally no reason other than to state he is an activist, which being an activist has nothing to do with politics. Then goes on about how he has been banned and kicked out for "kindness", when all he did was raid farms and factories to "free things". I could go on but it's just not fucking worth it.
[QUOTE=Paku;46182292] No one is expecting the world to turn vegan in 24 hours, this is something that takes time. People just need to realize that this needs to happen.[/QUOTE] Of course, but you need to realize that raising animals for slaughter is a massive industry and is the lifeblood of many people. It will take a LOT of time for most people to switch over to an effective alternative. It's the same problem with using fossil fuels, we don't [i]need[/i] to use them, and they're very pollutant, but we need effective alternatives to be widely accepted by those running the same industry that makes a massive profit off of oil revenue.
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;46182322]15 minutes in and I can tell everything I need to know. 1. He compares feeding on meat to rape, then rape to the holocaust. This is literally the lowest form of arguing possible, this alone tells me he isn't going to bring up any sort of biological research on things but try to win me over via emotions and as of 15:02 he is doing just that; playing emotions without leading into any kind of facts. 2.He goes into specism and says it is discrimination; However, never acknowledges the fact that cannibalism is a real thing and still practiced around the world in many tribes and third world countries where food is scarce. 3. Starts off most of his "statistics" with numbers and "In America", without providing any sources on his power point and only has links to his blog, bio, and what the holocaust was. 4. Brings up political parties for literally no reason other than to state he is an activist, which being an activist has nothing to do with politics. Then goes on about how he has been banned and kicked out for "kindness", when all he did was raid farms and factories to "free things". I could go on but it's just not fucking worth it.[/QUOTE] Why is appealing to emotion a problem here, the problem is the lack of emotion. He starts going more into detail further on. [editline]8th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=TAU!;46182336]Of course, but you need to realize that it raising animals for slaughter is a massive industry and is the lifeblood of many people. It will take a LOT of time for most people to switch over to an effective alternative.[/QUOTE] I agree.
[QUOTE=TurboSax;46182269]I'll never be able to agree with these peoples' views, I swear. Earth is [B]not[/B] some kind of flowery hugbox of animal life singing Hakuna Matata in unison under a smiley-faced sun, with humans being exempt because we're "unnatural", as some of these sorts of people seem to believe. [/QUOTE] [I]If everyone just thought like ME the world would be so much better![/I] -People who knew how to solve all the world problems but didn't
[QUOTE=Lolkork;46182304]Just saying 'lol better wait for new technology but it might take a while' is such a lazy mentality. It might take decades until we can produce meat with acceptable greenhouse gas emissions. If you actually want to be sustainable you should almost completely avoid eating meat. It's one of the easiest ways that you can pollute less.[/QUOTE] meat production is an insignificant source of GHGs compared to [I]literally everything else[/I] seriously this isnt a well hidden fact or anything, there is a ton of data on this topic [editline]e[/editline] also if you ever think humanity is going to become sustainable on one planet you are full of shit, everyone could go vegan and start driving electric cars right now and we wouldnt be sustainable purely by virtue of our population, Earth just doesnt have the carrying capacity for it
[QUOTE=Lolkork;46182304]Just saying 'lol better wait for new technology but it might take a while' is such a lazy mentality. It might take decades until we can produce meat with acceptable greenhouse gas emissions. If you actually want to be sustainable you should almost completely avoid eating meat. It's one of the easiest ways that you can pollute less.[/QUOTE] It might be that i have a lazy mentality, but i am 1 man. I personally love meat and will eat it to the day i die. You might upgrade me now to a lazy mentally hypocrite but i am well aware unless i start studding hard and work my way up to actually find solutions to our global problems i am no better then everybody else who does jackshit. It is a short lazy answer to such a big difficult question. But I just can see myself alone doing anything with it, so I'm taking the lazy way out and let people who know what there are talking about figuring it out.
[QUOTE=Zero!;46181270]Don't get me wrong the mass-production of food is far from a beautiful thing, but it's the only way to feed the modern world. I do agree we have to keep finding more humane ways to mass murder animals for food, but we got to eat. Running in to a restaurant and disturbing the guest is not the right way to get this message across.[/QUOTE] Eat meat all you like I don't give a fuck but jesus fucking christ, it's not the only way to feed the modern world and if you think that you're deluded and secluded - even fatty foods, a ton aren't made with meat, you can get pizza, waffles, chips (fries), crisps (chips), chocolate, cakes, etcetcera, and none of these are made with meat and before someone says protein, it's called eggs, meat is a luxury not a necessity
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;46182322]15 minutes in and I can tell everything I need to know. 1. He compares feeding on meat to rape, then rape to the holocaust. This is literally the lowest form of arguing possible, this alone tells me he isn't going to bring up any sort of biological research on things but try to win me over via emotions and as of 15:02 he is doing just that; playing emotions without leading into any kind of facts. 2.He goes into specism and says it is discrimination; However, never acknowledges the fact that cannibalism is a real thing and still practiced around the world in many tribes and third world countries where food is scarce. 3. Starts off most of his "statistics" with numbers and "In America", without providing any sources on his power point and only has links to his blog, bio, and what the holocaust was. 4. Brings up political parties for literally no reason other than to state he is an activist, which being an activist has nothing to do with politics. Then goes on about how he has been banned and kicked out for "kindness", when all he did was raid farms and factories to "free things". I could go on but it's just not fucking worth it.[/QUOTE] Exactly my thoughts too, and pretty much how far I made it. Skipped ahead a bit to see more, but there is so much uncited and purely emotion driven (what amounts to little more) that speculation it wouldn't hold up to any serious scrutiny.
[QUOTE=Irockz;46182368]Eat meat all you like I don't give a fuck but jesus fucking christ, it's not the only way to feed the modern world and if you think that you're deluded and secluded - even fatty foods, a ton aren't made with meat, [B]you can get pizza, waffles, chips (fries), crisps (chips), chocolate, cakes[/B], etcetcera, and none of these are made with meat and before someone says protein, it's called eggs, meat is a luxury not a necessity[/QUOTE] Everything you listed there, aside from the eggs, is unhealthy for you even in moderate amounts. And holy shit, how many times are people going to spout "meat isn't a necessity" where there are, still, billions of people that require it when there are little to no alternatives. Or meat itself outweighs everything else in their diet. Or meat is just cheap in general, and is an easy go-to part of people's diets. Just look at how big the meat industry is [url]http://www.businessinsider.com/how-we-eat-meat-around-the-world-2014-1[/url]
[QUOTE=Irockz;46182368]Eat meat all you like I don't give a fuck but jesus fucking christ, it's not the only way to feed the modern world and if you think that you're deluded and secluded - even fatty foods, a ton aren't made with meat, you can get pizza, waffles, chips (fries), crisps (chips), chocolate, cakes, etcetcera, and none of these are made with meat and before someone says protein, it's called eggs, meat is a luxury not a necessity[/QUOTE] You don't even need eggs, there are lots of grains and seeds that provide a healthy source of proteins, Lentils for example.
[QUOTE=TAU!;46182390]Everything you listed there, aside from the eggs, is unhealthy for you even in moderate amounts.[/QUOTE] That was my point [quote]even fatty foods[/quote]
[QUOTE=Paku;46182256][B]I never said that we're herbivores, We're Omnivores and this is what gives us a choice.[/B] You can have a healthy diet that includes meat and one that doesn't. Instead of listing to me, I suggest you watch the 1 hour long video. I would love to hear your reponses to that video, I couldn't really find any after I finished it.[/QUOTE] Being an omnivore isn't about choice. It's about requiring both plants and meat. We literally needed meat. Perhaps we might not need meat today, with alternatives like high protein plants, but there was no choice until lately. Especially thousands of years ago, either you eat meat, or you die. Denying that is ridiculous. It's literally set in stone.
[QUOTE=Paku;46182392]You don't even need eggs, there are lots of grains and seeds that provide a healthy source of proteins, Lentils for example.[/QUOTE] did you not read my post about environmental damage as a result of the grain craze???
[QUOTE=joost1120;46182400]Being an omnivore isn't about choice. It's about requiring both plants and meat. We literally needed meat. Perhaps we might not need meat today, with alternatives like high protein plants, but there was no choice until lately. Especially thousands of years ago, either you eat meat, or you die. Denying that is ridiculous. It's literally set in stone.[/QUOTE] Please give me an example of something that is only found in meat and can't be found anywhere else.
[QUOTE=Teddybeer;46182421]I eat meat because I like being a dick. I might not bee a doctor but pain is stimuli from nerves send to the brain. Its like that time one of my friends that is now a chef played around with a chef's knife and cut his finger and nerves and felt nothing. If we were prey we would have eyes on the side of our heads.[/QUOTE] This is a very basic principle and it doesn't apply to all animals. there are different kinds of stimuli, you don't feel pain when you tap on your body (but you're stimulating your nerves)
[QUOTE=Flyingman356;46181311][B]-You don't need meat[/B][/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Paku;46182150]Meat is an acquired taste, you don't crave it when you're a baby. Humans aren't predators.[/QUOTE] Oh wow that's a whole new level of ignorance
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;46182437]Oh wow that's a whole new level of ignorance[/QUOTE] How is this ignorant?, you don't need meat. As some other guy said "meat is a luxury not a necessity"
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;46182437]Oh wow that's a whole new level of ignorance[/QUOTE] well I mean taken at face value it's technically a true statement, you can survive without meat at this point though "everyone should just go vegan lolo" is just as unsustainable a solution as our current level of meat consumption
[QUOTE=Paku;46182091]The point is, we don't need meat. We don't need to kill animals, we have a choice. We aren't controlled soely by our instincts, we have a choice to cause 0% harm. We just choose not to. [editline]8th October 2014[/editline] Just watch this (the whole video) If you aren't convinced by this then, I would love to hear your response on it. [video=youtube;es6U00LMmC4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es6U00LMmC4[/video][/QUOTE] "just watch an hour long video" lol yeah sure mate
[QUOTE=RustledJimmys;46182455]"just watch an hour long video" lol yeah sure mate[/QUOTE] This is the holy grail of veganist thinking, (I think there's an updated video as well) Instead of having debates on forums, I think it's much more effective to watch this whole video and make up your mind.
[QUOTE=Paku;46182450]How is this ignorant?, you don't need meat. As some other guy said "meat is a luxury not a necessity"[/QUOTE] You do need meat unless you want to turn into a slug. If you decide to stay away from animal products such as fish, meat and eggs, you'll basically have to rely on a bucketload of food supplements to compensate for the vitamin deficiencies you'll develop, and if you don't you'll start slugging down a lot. Now yeah you can cut meat out of your typical day to day feeding habits but you WILL suffer from quite a number of deficiencies that will be a problem. Same way you'll suffer from a pretty big number of issues if you drop vegetables entirely and start eating meat all the time. You'd have to be really fucking dumb to believe doing one or the other thing is the best possible solution.
[QUOTE=Miskav;46181789]And just because of this, I'm going to eat twice as much meat for the next month. Just to piss you off.[/QUOTE] Nah man, eat THREE times as many. Like that, he is directly contributing to a greater demand of meat that if he just ate it himself.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;46182481]You do need meat unless you want to turn into a slug. If you decide to stay away from animal products such as fish, meat and eggs, you'll basically have to rely on a bucketload of food supplements to compensate for the vitamin deficiencies you'll develop, and if you don't you'll start slugging down a lot.[/QUOTE] Hmm... this guy doesn't look like a slug to me [IMG]http://www.greatveganathletes.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/field/image/Patrik%20Baboumian.jpg[/IMG]
What right does she think she has to come and disrupt a meal these people have worked hard to pay for.
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