Watch: Animal rights activist storms restaurant and tells diners they’re eating her chicken
301 replies, posted
Seriously what is up with all these really poorly educated extremists popping up in FP all of a sudden? I mean we had guys like thisispain and yawmwen, but at least they had some semblance of understanding of what they were discussing and could back up their claims with at least some proper evidence. Now we have to argue against idiots who basically drag us down to their level and beat us with experience as the saying goes.
It can't be because of the Rust forums, so are we being targeted by relatively decent trolls? Or a single troll with alts?
Okay Paku is now stuck on a loop where all he can say is "artifically added to meat" and "you don't need meat".
I think we broke him.
[QUOTE=Paku;46182678]How am I grasping at straws?, humans and mammals aren't capable of producing the vitamin.
Only bacteria does, you need the bacteria not the animal.
[editline]8th October 2014[/editline]
You don't need meat, all the nutrients that are found in meat can be also found elsewhere.
B12 is artificially added to meat so it doesn't count and you're taking it as a supplement tru meat anyway since the animal doesn't actually produce it.[/QUOTE]
Seriously, how the hell is B12 "artificially" added to meat? Please, really, enlighten me on this subject.
[QUOTE=Fetret;46182716]Seriously what is up with all these really poorly educated extremists popping up in FP all of a sudden? I mean we had guys like thisispain and yawmwen, but at least they had some semblance of understanding of what they were discussing and could back up their claims with at least some proper evidence. Now we have to argue against idiots who basically drag us down to their level and beat us with experience as the saying goes.
It can't be because of the Rust forums, so are we being targeted by relatively decent trolls? Or a single troll with alts?[/QUOTE]
Can you please explain how I'm a troll or an extremist?, does me telling you something you don't like to hear turn me into an extremist?
[editline]8th October 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Fetret;46182725]Seriously, how the hell is B12 "artificially" added to meat? Please, really, enlighten me on this subject.[/QUOTE]
How is this so hard to understand?, humans and mammals aren't capable capable of synthesizing B12
it has to come from somewhere tho, it comes from bacteria in the animals gut but that's still not enough, so they just take a concentrated solution of it and just inject it into the meat with a syringe.
[QUOTE=Paku;46182726]Can you please explain how I'm a troll or an extremist?, does me telling you something you don't like to hear turn me into an extremist?[/QUOTE]
No you spouting bullshit without any proper evidence makes me believe you are a troll. The fact that you close your eyes and ears when presented with counter arguments backed up with evidence makes me believe you are an extremist.
The combination of the two makes me believe you are poorly educated.
[QUOTE=Fetret;46182751]No you spouting bullshit without any proper evidence makes me believe you are a troll. The fact that you close your eyes and ears when presented with counter arguments backed up with evidence makes me believe you are an extremist.
The combination of the two makes me believe you are poorly educated.[/QUOTE]
I didn't get any proper counter arguments, def not from you.
You asked a question, I answered, why are you unsatisfied?
Clearly Paku is a vegan bot.
[QUOTE=Fetret;46182725]Seriously, how the hell is B12 "artificially" added to meat? Please, really, enlighten me on this subject.[/QUOTE]
It's basically the same reasoning as people who say "I'm not going to eat that, it's full of chemicals."
The reasoning being that words like Artificial and Chemicals sound scientific and smart so it makes them feel better about being smartasses.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;46182776]It's basically the same reasoning as people who say "I'm not going to eat that, it's full of chemicals."
The reasoning being that words like Artificial and Chemicals sound scientific and smart so it makes them feel better about being smartasses.[/QUOTE]
How the fuck is this the same reasoning, it's found in meat because it's diffused into the cell, B12 that's excreted by the BACTERIA, not the ANIMAL that you're eating.
I really can't understand why is it so hard to grasp this.
Why do i feel Paku is one of the types who will later go to tumblr or Twitter and go "OMH THEM NON VEGANS ARE EATING MEAT AND BEING HITLER AND OPRESSING ME"
[QUOTE=Paku;46182726]
How is this so hard to understand?, humans and mammals aren't capable capable of synthesizing B12
it has to come from somewhere tho, it comes from bacteria in the animals gut[B] but that's still not enough, [/B]so they just take a concentrated solution of it and just[B] inject it into the meat with a syringe.[/B][/QUOTE]
Wow.
No seriously.
Wow.
You have never taken a biology course have you? Or studied the digestion of some herbivores for that matter.
[QUOTE=Paku;46182678]How am I grasping at straws?, humans and mammals aren't capable of producing the vitamin.
Only bacteria does, you need the bacteria not the animal.
[editline]8th October 2014[/editline]
You don't need meat, all the nutrients that are found in meat can be also found elsewhere.
B12 is artificially added to meat so it doesn't count and you're taking it as a supplement tru meat anyway since the animal doesn't actually produce it.[/QUOTE]
Things that we can more reliably from meat than plants.
Zinc (In many plants this may bind to minerals and make it unusable by the body)
Iron (Same thing with Zinc)
Protein (Same thing as Zinc+Iron)
Vitamin D (D2 is found in plants, but is much less reliable in being used by the body than D3 which is only found in animals).
B12 (Found naturally only in Animals, there are a couple of sea plants that have it, but it is contested whether or not the form of it in those is usable by the human body)
Vitamin A (You just need to eat more fat if you're going to get this from plants, otherwise your body won't be able to convert the form that is in plants into something usable by the Human Body).
[QUOTE=DrugUnit;46182800]Why do i feel Paku is one of the types who will later go to tumblr or Twitter and go "OMH THEM NON VEGANS ARE EATING MEAT AND BEING HITLER AND OPRESSING ME"[/QUOTE]
Now you're just being silly, I don't use twitter or Tumblr.
I'm also not a social justice warrior.
You're basically all going ad-hominem because there's literally nothing else that you can say.
[QUOTE=Paku;46182791]How the fuck is this the same reasoning, it's found in meat because it's diffused by B12 that's excreted by the BACTERIA, not the ANIMAL that you're eating.
I really can't understand why is it so hard to grasp this.[/QUOTE]
Okay so first of all, "artificial" means it was produced by humans or made by human skill. If the bacteria is already present and creates the vitamins that then end up in the meat, then it's not artificial, it's natural.
Second, it doesn't matter if it comes from the bacteria. If you find it in the meat without it being injected artificially (ie without someone stabbing a piece of meat with a syringe filled with vitamin), then you can consider it as coming from the meat itself - and trust me, there isn't a single mass producer of meat in the world that's willing to stab every piece of steak they produce with a syringe filled with magical vitamin juice.
[QUOTE=Flyingman356;46181311]-You don't need meat
[/QUOTE]
By that logic we don't need vegetables either.
[QUOTE=bdd458;46182803]Things that we can more reliably from meat than plants.
Zinc (In many plants this may bind to minerals and make it unusable by the body)
Iron (Same thing with Zinc)
Protein (Same thing as Zinc+Iron)
Vitamin D (D2 is found in plants, but is much less reliable in being used by the body than D3 which is only found in animals).
B12 (Found naturally only in Animals, there are a couple of sea plants that have it, but it is contested whether or not the form of it in those is usable by the human body)
Vitamin A (You just need to eat more fat if you're going to get this from plants, otherwise your body won't be able to convert the form that is in plants into something usable by the Human Body).[/QUOTE]
I already explained why B12 is found in animals, you're going to have to eat more but you're still going to be able to get everything without eating meat.
[editline]8th October 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Skyward;46182830]By that logic we don't need vegetables either.[/QUOTE]
????????
[editline]8th October 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;46182824]Okay so first of all, "artificial" means it was produced by humans or made by human skill. If the bacteria is already present and creates the vitamins that then end up in the meat, then it's not artificial, it's natural.
Second, it doesn't matter if it comes from the bacteria. If you find it in the meat without it being injected artificially (ie without someone stabbing a piece of meat with a syringe filled with vitamin), then you can consider it as coming from the meat itself - and trust me, there isn't a single mass producer of meat in the world that's willing to stab every piece of steak they produce with a syringe filled with magical vitamin juice.[/QUOTE]
You don't need the animal to get B12 you need the bacteria, this doesn't justify eating meat.
[QUOTE=Paku;46182816]Now you're just being silly, I don't use twitter or Tumblr.
I'm also not a social justice warrior.
You're basically all going ad-hominem because there's literally nothing else that you can say.[/QUOTE]
Thing is if i wanted i could say more. I just don't see any point in trying to fight you with actual claims and facts and science since you will just grasp at some straws again and go BUT MEAT IS BAD GUYS. Thus making more people post and making you react again. It's the endless cycle of internet fights and congratulations you played right into it.
So how long until she gets punched in the face.
This is he kind of person I use the word backpfeifengesicht to describe.
[QUOTE=Paku;46182831]I already explained why B12 is found in animals, you're going to have to eat more but you're still going to be able to get everything without eating meat.
[editline]8th October 2014[/editline]
????????[/QUOTE]
Vegetarians are more likely to have a Zinc deficiency, because the zinc they are 'getting' from plants isn't doing anything.
[QUOTE=bdd458;46182846]Vegetarians are more likely to have a Zinc deficiency, because the zinc they are 'getting' from plants isn't doing anything.[/QUOTE]
Can I have a source on this please?
Fuck vitamins and proteins.
I eat meat because it is really, really tasty.
Bacteria living in your or an animal's gut does not constitute an artificial source. They are commensal organisms, usually not able to live anywhere else but the gut and derive benefit from the host just as the host derives benefit from them.
Without the bacteria we wouldn't be able to process some of the parts that make up your precious plants. Without the bacteria we would not be able to produce and absorb Vitamin K. Without bacteria absorption of iron, calcium and magnesium would be very difficult indeed.
Vitamin B12 is not artificially inserted into meat, just as vitamin K is not artificially absorbed in humans.
You might not be a bad person and I do have respect for people who defend their position, but unless you do it in an educated manner I will not take you seriously ever.
Here are the resources I've used for this post, if you cannot access them for one reason or the other, PM me and I'll send the pdfs.
[url]http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1744116104000237[/url]
[url]http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673603124890[/url]
[url]http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1521691803001276[/url]
[QUOTE=DrugUnit;46182843]Thing is if i wanted i could say more. I just don't see any point in trying to fight you with actual claims and facts and science since you will just grasp at some straws again and go BUT MEAT IS BAD GUYS. Thus making more people post and making you react again. It's the endless cycle of internet fights and congratulations you played right into it.[/QUOTE]
I don't understand how I'm grasping at straw, it's actually you that's grasping at staws because there's literally nothing else except this B12 shit. (which is not produced by the Animal)
So there's no reason for you to eat it for B12.
[QUOTE=Paku;46182831]I already explained why B12 is found in animals, you're going to have to eat more but you're still going to be able to get everything without eating meat.
[editline]8th October 2014[/editline]
????????
[editline]8th October 2014[/editline]
You don't need the animal to get B12 you need the bacteria, this doesn't justify eating meat.[/QUOTE]
Want to know what justifies eating meat, your 4 canine teeth and 8 incisors, evolved to tear and cut though delicious, juicy, beast flesh
[QUOTE=Paku;46182874]I don't understand how I'm grasping at straw, it's actually you that's grasping at staws because there's literally nothing else except this B12 shit. (which is not produced by the Animal)
So there's no reason for you to eat it for B12.[/QUOTE]
You said name one thing that was in meat that cannot be found in plants, not what you have to have from meat. You are basically moving the goalposts There is no reason to eat most plants either, you can find almost everything in supplement form nowadays. It doesn't mean it is viable or a smart idea.
Also B12 is far from shit unless you want to have peripheral neuropathy.
[QUOTE=Paku;46182070]I love all this collective shitposting, it's a rare sight when the entire thread is composed of hypocrites shitposting.
That's when you know that it's a meat related issue.[/QUOTE]
No, there is no rare sightings going on here, instead we have one of the most common sights ever, a fucking retarded vegan who has little to no arguments other than "Meat industry is bad dont eat meat" while being on top of a high horse.
You are bringing nothing to this thread and its shit we have ALL HEARD BEFORE. You turn more people away from being vegans by the way you act.
You act like animals have no fucking choice as well in this thread, its the most narrow minded and hypocritical bullshit ever that ive seen a lot of uppity vegans use. You really think a bear doesnt choose when it wants to eat some shitty berrys or a nice slab of salmon? Animals arent fucking pre-programed robots.
They have a choice what they kill and ultimately how they kill it, there are cats who slap shit around and play with a mouse before killing it, and some just straight up kill it immediately. The entire choice argument is so fucking retarded that even a kitty cat makes the example flawed.
Animals are killers, we are animals, we actually have the choice of being the best and most humane killers ON THE PLANET, more than ANY ANIMAL, and guess what? Most people that are in the line of work killing animals kill them nicer than probably any of the animals predators would do.
Whats better? A snake slowly choking and strangling a chicken to death and crushing its body slowly. Or a person using a shock rod that you touch the chicken with and it just dies instantly without feeling a thing.
[QUOTE=Fetret;46182865]Bacteria living in your or an animal's gut does not constitute an artificial source. They are commensal organisms, usually not able to live anywhere else but the gut and derive benefit from the host just as the host derives benefit from them.
Without the bacteria we wouldn't be able to process some of the parts that make up your precious plants. Without the bacteria we would not be able to produce and absorb Vitamin K. Without bacteria absorption of iron, calcium and magnesium would be very difficult indeed.
Vitamin B12 is not artificially inserted into meat, just as vitamin K is not artificially absorbed in humans.
You might not be a bad person and I do have respect for people who defend their position, but unless you do it in an educated manner I will not take you seriously ever.
Here are the resources I've used for this post, if you cannot access them for one reason or the other, PM me and I'll send the pdfs.
[url]http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1744116104000237[/url]
[url]http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673603124890[/url]
[url]http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1521691803001276[/url][/QUOTE]
But you're ignoring the fact that you can just take he bacteria without harming the animal.
Thus this doesn't really justify slathering the animal for B12.
[QUOTE=Paku;46182831]You don't need the animal to get B12 you need the bacteria, this doesn't justify eating meat.[/QUOTE]
Good luck surviving on eating bacteria, and good luck finding that bacteria on anything that's not meat.
Also, going by that logic, you don't need to eat bread to get nutrients, you just need to cram your mouth full of yeast.
[QUOTE=Paku;46182854]Can I have a source on this please?[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/ar/archive/mar98/zinc0398.pdf[/url]
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;46182911]Good luck surviving on eating bacteria, and good luck finding that bacteria on anything that's not meat.
Also, going by that logic, you don't need to eat bread to get nutrients, you just need to cram your mouth full of dry wheat.[/QUOTE]
I didn't say that you actually need to eat the bacteria itself, you can add it artificially to vegan food like it's added to meat.
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