Watch: Animal rights activist storms restaurant and tells diners they’re eating her chicken
301 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Paku;46183159]Gut flora comes from the food you eat obviously, then int multiplies in your gut.
The issue is not how the gut flora comes into your body, but how it gets into a state of equilibrium inside your gut with other bateria without dying or poisioning you.[/QUOTE]
Yes obviously, all those researchers were just wasting their time, they should have just asked you.
How does the multitude of bacteria that you need to be healthy come from what is basically a single source of nutrition? How do those bacteria actually evade all the defensive mechanisms and colonise the gut and why don't other bacteria do the same? Why do some people lose the ability to breakdown lactose as they grow older and others don't? Why do specific bacteria get preferential treatment by the immune system and others (more pathogenic ones) don't?
I really don't know the answers to these questions, if I did I probably would be a great scientist on my way to a Nobel prize or something. If I were you, I would prepare my thank you speech the prize can't be far away.
[QUOTE=Fetret;46183183]Yes obviously, all those researchers were just wasting their time, they should have just asked you.
How does the multitude of bacteria that you need to be healthy come from what is basically a single source of nutrition? How do those bacteria actually evade all the defensive mechanisms and colonise the gut and why don't other bacteria do the same? Why do some people lose the ability to breakdown lactose as they grow older and others don't? Why do specific bacteria get preferential treatment by the immune system and others (more pathogenic ones) don't?
I really don't know the answers to these questions, if I did I probably would be a great scientist on my way to a Nobel prize or something. If I were you, I would prepare my thank you speech the prize can't be far away.[/QUOTE]
I never claimed to know the answers to these questions
[QUOTE=Paku;46183159]
When a baby is in a womb, all the nutrients are being fed to it tru the bloodstream.
When does the undeveloped gut come into play?[/QUOTE]
[url=http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25603-babys-first-gut-bacteria-may-come-from-mums-mouth.html#.VDVu2_l4ryB]Because the idea that babies are "clean" is horribly incorrect[/url]
[QUOTE=Paku;46183120]
When you are just born, you are clean.[/QUOTE]
You're literally covered in your mother.
How is that clean?
[QUOTE=Ogopogo;46183216][url=http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25603-babys-first-gut-bacteria-may-come-from-mums-mouth.html#.VDVu2_l4ryB]Because the idea that babies are "clean" is horribly incorrect[/url][/QUOTE]
They're clean from b12 producing bacteria
Animals aren't born with gut bacterica capable of b12 synthesis.
they have to get it from soil
[QUOTE=Paku;46183201]I never claimed to know the answers to these questions[/QUOTE]
No no no, please don't sell yourself short. The point about gut flora coming from the food you eat was very insightful (and it is actually one of the theories, it might quite possibly be the right one for all I know). You just need some real, hard, reproducible evidence and perhaps a couple of papers but those are all easy once you have the basics down.
[editline]8th October 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Paku;46183226]They're clean from b12 producing bacteria[/QUOTE]
Humans don't have B12 producing bacteria. Not babies, not adults. That is why you need meat.
[QUOTE=Paku;46183226]They're clean from b12 producing bacteria[/QUOTE]
[url=http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21428603.800-babies-are-born-dirty-with-a-gutful-of-bacteria.html]Try again[/url]
Besides which, humans don't have very many B12 producing bacteria to sustain them, nor will they ever.
[QUOTE=Fetret;46183243]No no no, please don't sell yourself short. The point about gut flora coming from the food you eat was very insightful (and it is actually one of the theories, it might quite possibly be the right one for all I know). You just need some real, hard, reproducible evidence and perhaps a couple of papers but those are all easy once you have the basics down.
[editline]8th October 2014[/editline]
Humans don't have B12 producing bacteria. Not babies, not adults. That is why you need meat.[/QUOTE]
I never claimed that humans have bacteria that produces B12.
You shifted the topic to humans.
"Clean" = very insignificant amounts that increase in the upcoming weeks.
The point is, non-human animals aren't born with bacteria that's capable of producing b12
the get it from soil that contains this bacteria.
We can get it from the same place and do the bacterial fermentation-synthesis to get B12.
So it doesn't justify slathering the animal to get B12.
[QUOTE=Paku;46183159]Gut flora comes from the food you eat obviously, then int multiplies in your gut.
The issue is not how the gut flora comes into your body, but how it gets into a state of equilibrium inside your gut with other bateria without dying or poisioning you.
[editline]8th October 2014[/editline]
When a baby is in a womb, all the nutrients are being fed to it tru the bloodstream.
When does the undeveloped gut come into play?[/QUOTE]
This is so wrong I can't begin to describe where it's gone south.
Gut flora acquisition starts from the moment of birth. In a vaginal delivery, the baby gets exposed to bacteria from the mother's gastrointestinal tract. Infants born by means of C-sections get less of such, more often if they were from say a trial vaginal delivery. Primarily these infants get the first gut flora from the surrounding environment and the carers (the nursing staff). Oral and cutaneous bacteria get readily established by kisses and handling the baby.
All infants are initially colonized by large numbers of E. coli and streptococci. Within a few days, bacterial numbers reach 10^8 to 10^10 per gram of feces. During the first week of life, these bacteria create a reducing environment favorable for the subsequent bacterial succession of strict anaerobic species mainly belonging to the genera Bifidobacterium, Bacteroides, Clostridium, and Ruminococcus. Breast-fed babies become dominated by bifidobacteria, possibly due to the contents of bifidobacterial growth factors in breast milk. In contrast, the flora of formula-fed infants is more diverse, with high numbers of Enterobacteriaceae, Enterococci, Bifidobacteria, Bacteroides, and Clostridia.
So yeah, gut flora isn't established purely by means of the food you eat.
The flora varies between race, country, and other such factors; there are multiple variations and sub-variations possible through bacterial genetics alone, to say nothing of influence of the diet. Note again influence: the food you eat only partly influences the composition and numbers of each individual bacterial species in the gut microbiome.
Don't talk about things you have no real idea about, and you won't look silly for it. Just some friendly advice.
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;46183273]This is so wrong I can't begin to describe where it's gone south.
Gut flora acquisition starts from the moment of birth. In a vaginal delivery, the baby gets exposed to bacteria from the mother's gastrointestinal tract. Infants born by means of C-sections get less of such, more often if they were from say a trial vaginal delivery. Primarily these infants get the first gut flora from the surrounding environment and the carers (the nursing staff). Oral and cutaneous bacteria get readily established by kisses and handling the baby.
All infants are initially colonized by large numbers of E. coli and streptococci. Within a few days, bacterial numbers reach 108 to 1010 per gram of feces. During the first week of life, these bacteria create a reducing environment favorable for the subsequent bacterial succession of strict anaerobic species mainly belonging to the genera Bifidobacterium, Bacteroides, Clostridium, and Ruminococcus. Breast-fed babies become dominated by bifidobacteria, possibly due to the contents of bifidobacterial growth factors in breast milk. In contrast, the flora of formula-fed infants is more diverse, with high numbers of Enterobacteriaceae, Enterococci, Bifidobacteria, Bacteroides, and Clostridia.
So yeah, gut flora isn't established purely by means of the food you eat.
The flora varies between race, country, and other such factors; there are multiple variations and sub-variations possible through bacterial genetics alone, to say nothing of influence of the diet. Note again influence: the food you eat only partly influences the composition and numbers of each individual bacterial species in the gut microbiome.
Don't talk about things you have no real idea about, and you won't look silly for it. Just some friendly advice.[/QUOTE]
Like I said they contain very insignificant amounts of gut flora "clean"
They get it from their mom, and the rest of the gut flora multiplies in the gut and when the baby is born it can get from other sources.
the gut flora doesn't really bother me in humans, he shifted the topic to humans to get away from the discussion that was at hand.
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;46183273]...[/QUOTE]
The cavalry has arrived. I can finally do some work, instead of trying to hold down the fort now. Good luck though, you are going to need it.
Also this:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBoLA_BQ4tU[/media]
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;46183273]
Gut flora acquisition starts from the moment of birth.[/QUOTE]
Not to belittle the point you are trying to make, but check the article link I posted just up above. Though this was a previously held belief, they are finding that the placenta contains large amounts of bacteria which (along with other studies) suggests that babies by the time they are born already have more than insignificant amounts of bacteria in their gut.
[editline]8th October 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Paku;46183268]
The point is, non-human animals aren't born with bacteria that's capable of producing b12[/QUOTE]
Source please. While they certain do have less bacteria, by no means are the completely devoid of it.
[QUOTE=Ogopogo;46183309]Not to belittle the point you are trying to make, but check the article link I posted just up above. Though this was a previously held belief, they are finding that the placenta contains large amounts of bacteria which (along with other studies) suggests that babies by the time they are born already have more than insignificant amounts of bacteria in their gut.
[editline]8th October 2014[/editline]
Source please.[/QUOTE]
Strange, they didn't mention this article during the time I was studying. Thanks for that, I'll look a bit more into this.
[QUOTE=Ogopogo;46183309]Not to belittle the point you are trying to make, but check the article link I posted just up above. Though this was a previously held belief, they are finding that the placenta contains large amounts of bacteria which (along with other studies) suggests that babies by the time they are born already have more than insignificant amounts of bacteria in their gut.
[editline]8th October 2014[/editline]
Source please. While they certain do have less bacteria, by no means are the completely devoid of it.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacillus_megaterium[/url]
"Common soil becteria"
No need to slaughter animals for b12.
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;46183334]Strange, they didn't mention this article during the time I was studying. Thanks for that, I'll look a bit more into this.[/QUOTE]
The articles were from late spring this year so it isn't that surprising.
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;46183334]Strange, they didn't mention this article during the time I was studying. Thanks for that, I'll look a bit more into this.[/QUOTE]
I want to elaborate that I was talking about b12 bacteria not all gut flora.
Humans don't have b12 producing bacteria that's why I said "clean" contain very insignificant amounts.
Plus I'm sure you understand me, you live in India after all you're probably vegetarian.
Do you think it's Justifiable to kill animals for b12 if we are perfectly capable of mass-producing it without harming the animals?
You probably won't answer this question because you want to keep up your reputation in this community, that's understandable.
[QUOTE=Paku;46183398]
Plus I'm sure you understand me, you live in India after all you're probably vegetarian.
[/QUOTE]
so you're a racist troll
[QUOTE=Bentham;46183527]so you're a racist troll[/QUOTE]
How is this racist, He lives in India = he could be of any race ????
Most of the people that live in India are vegetarian.
[QUOTE=Paku;46183356][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacillus_megaterium[/url]
"Common soil becteria"
No need to slaughter animals for b12.[/QUOTE]
Why the fuck would I want to eat dirt, I would rather beat my meat, I mean eat it.
[QUOTE=Pokeman493;46183551]Why the fuck would I want to eat dirt, I would rather beat my meat, I mean eat it.[/QUOTE]
Why would you need to eat dirt?
[QUOTE=Paku;46183398]I want to elaborate that I was talking about b12 bacteria not all gut flora.
Humans don't have b12 producing bacteria that's why I said "clean" contain very insignificant amounts.
Plus I'm sure you understand me, you live in India after all you're probably vegetarian.
Do you think it's Justifiable to kill animals for b12 if we are perfectly capable of mass-producing it without harming the animals?
You probably won't answer this question because you want to keep up your reputation in this community, that's understandable.[/QUOTE]
Just because somebody lives in India doesn't automatically qualify them as vegetarian, genius. I eat chicken and lamb on a regular basis, and good beef and pork when I can get it.
Also I really don't feel like getting into disproving any more of what you're saying, because you'll come back with more straw men and contrived 'facts' to prove that mankind should no longer eat animals.
For emphasis: The real problem isn't with eating animals, it's more to do with food distribution and inequality anyway, if not for this those who wanted to eat meat and those who wished to go vegetarian or vegan would both be pigs in clover with the plenty to go around.
So get over it.
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;46183635]Just because somebody lives in India doesn't automatically qualify them as vegetarian, genius. I eat chicken and lamb on a regular basis, and good beef and pork when I can get it.
Also I really don't feel like getting into disproving any more of what you're saying, because you'll come back with more straw men and contrived 'facts' to prove that mankind should no longer eat animals.
For emphasis: The real problem isn't with eating animals, it's more to do with food distribution and inequality anyway, if not for this those who wanted to eat meat and those who wished to go vegetarian or vegan would both be pigs in clover with the plenty to go around.
So get over it.[/QUOTE]
I said probably vegetarian, also when did I use a strawman?
Also you didn't really answer my question, the last stand for the meat-eaters here was the B12 thing, that they literally can't get it anywhere else.
and that's why it's justfied to kill animals, for b12 (that's not produced by animals)
[QUOTE=Paku;46183545]How is this racist, He lives in India = he could be of any race ????
Most of the people that live in India are vegetarian.[/QUOTE]
If you really want to learn something about politics involving food, study about how people in poverty aren't able to get decent-quality, nutritionally sound because their grocers don't really carry them, while there's a Mickey D's on the corner.
[QUOTE=Ownederd;46183697]If you really want to learn something about politics involving food, study about how people in poverty aren't able to get decent-quality, nutritionally sound because their grocers don't really carry them, while there's a Mickey D's on the corner.[/QUOTE]
What does this have to do with me being racist?
[QUOTE=Paku;46183545]Most of the people that live in India are vegetarian.[/QUOTE]
How in the world is 31% (primarily lacto-vegetarianism) and 9% more who consume eggs (by UN as of 2007), or 20%-42% (by FAO or USDA), even remotely qualify as "most"?
[QUOTE=Paku;46183713]What does this have to do with me being racist?[/QUOTE]
i'm just saying in general, it's more productive to be aware issues about what people don't have access to when they actually need it.
[QUOTE=Paku;46183692]Also you didn't really answer my question, the last stand for the meat-eaters here was the B12 thing, that they literally can't get it anywhere else.[/QUOTE]
We're more stuck on the fact you don't seem to have a grasp of biology, far from it that it is the "last stand" as you are likely to phrase it as.
[QUOTE=Ogopogo;46183731]How in the world is 31% (primarily lacto-vegetarianism) and 9% more who consume eggs (by UN as of 2007), or 20%-42% (by FAO or USDA), even remotely qualify as "most"?[/QUOTE]
this is 2007 study, I'm sure it's over 50% now
[editline]8th October 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ogopogo;46183754]We're more stuck on the fact you don't seem to have a grasp of biology, far from it that it is the "last stand" as you are likely to phrase it as.[/QUOTE]
Can you please elaborate on how I don't grasp biology?
I hope they were kicked out and banned from the restaurant.
People paid for a relaxing meal, not to be harassed by someone that looks so stereotypically vegan.
If everyone stopped eating animals and released them into the wild, wouldn't the animals became vermin?
Like if a Sheep came into my garden and started eating my plants, what am I to do with it? I cant eat it and no one owns it because its free, so would anyone even care if it died?
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