Garena(LoL's SEA esports partner)'s new rules, barring teams with more than one Lesbian, Gay, or Tra - Polidicks

they've got a gay expert who comes in and looks at everybody.

and this is the southeast asian league?! seriously next competition should be in Bangkok thailand

[I]"this one's gay, this one right here I just know it"[/I]

But... How would they know? (In the case of the homosexual players) this seems like something that would be super easy to lie your way into. It seems useless and impractical. Plus it's alienating players for seemingly no reason. [QUOTE]On this angle, we believed that allowing more to be eligible to join is obviously the answer [/QUOTE] Isn't that the opposite of what they are doing, though? [QUOTE]and as many of our female teams have expressed -- Lesbian, Gay, Transgendered Women members are their friends too.[/QUOTE] This sounds like when people say: "I'm not racist, I have black friends" [editline]NoIhaventThisIsRetarded[/editline] Today I learned that homosexual and transgendered women have superpowers when it comes to videogames (or just lol)

I don't at all agree with what they've done considering how nonsensical it is, but I don't know why everyone is so quick to imply that women are 100% on par with men when it comes to anything that doesn't require physical strength/stamina. Sexual dimorphism is a very real thing and there are countless examples of it even with humans alone, and there's still a lot that we don't know about its effect on behavior. To claim that sexism and the patriarchy is the cause of a lack of women in every hobby/career field is ridiculous. I'm not saying it's a definite thing or anything, but there's a very real chance that there's some physical/mental difference that makes it easier for men to be interested in/excel at certain video games. Claim cultural influence all you want, but research has shown that biology does play at least a minor role in preferences. edit: Also, e-sports have separate female leagues not primarily because of sexism (which can easily be eliminated in professional scenes), but because the female teams just can't compete for the most part. Scarlett, one of the best if not best female SC2 players is trans for example (which may or may not have an impact on her performance), and many of the best female SC1/BW players just couldn't compete against the top men at all. Remember Na`vi's female Dota team? I don't either.

I'm pretty sure it's true that males have faster reaction times than females so I can kind of understand the transgender part, even if it's still stupid, but the gay and lesbian thing makes no sense at all.

if esports wants to pretend they can someday rival physical sports they have to cut shit like this out

[QUOTE=gokiyono;47069877]But... How would they know? (In the case of the homosexual players) this seems like something that would be super easy to lie your way into. It seems useless and impractical. Plus it's alienating players for seemingly no reason. Isn't that the opposite of what they are doing, though? This sounds like when people say: "I'm not racist, I have black friends" [editline]NoIhaventThisIsRetarded[/editline] Today I learned that homosexual and transgendered women have superpowers when it comes to videogames (or just lol)[/QUOTE] They'll probably do background research into the player I guess although I am only speculating.

[QUOTE=Zambies!;47069903]if esports wants to pretend they can someday rival physical sports they have to cut shit like this out[/QUOTE] Instead they need to move to bribes, beating their wives and drug abuse

[url]https://twitter.com/riotgames/status/562711265899188229[/url] [quote] LGBT players are welcome at official LoL tourneys. We're working with partners to ensure consistency with our values across all regions. [/quote] Someone's not happy at the PR department right now, I bet.

Generally throwing it out here, but got interested and dug around. Found a 2009 article looking at, among other stuff, how fast males and females could react to an image and understand the content (Basically is this a good, bad or neutral image). The article ended up not really using the gender comparison due to the small difference in time [quote=Reaction time normative data for the IAPS as a function of display time, gender, and picture content]"In general, only statistically significant effects are reported, except for gender (...) The effect of gender did not reach statistical significance (male, M 885 msec; female, M 903 msec)"[/quote] The above is from the article that is probably paywalled (Uni library access woo) but the non paywalled abstract says the same thing [quote=Abstract]"The participants’ task involved assessing the emotional valence of each picture and responding as quickly as possible as to whether it was unpleasant, neutral, or pleasant. RTs provided an index of processing efficiency (...) There were minimal differences between men and women"[/quote] Males seem to have some advantage in pure reaction time though. Found this, and seen a few others with similar results [quote=Gender differences in choice reaction time: evidence for differential strategies, ABSTRACT]" Results demonstrated a near-significant overall reaction time advantage for male participants. Moreover, males and females showed a differential pattern of reaction time as a function of stimulus location. (...) It was suggested that this gender difference in reaction time performance may reflect differences in processing strategy. Specifically, it was argued that in the present task females may have employed a serial, left-to-right, processing strategy, and males a binary, split-half (dichotomizing) strategy."[/quote] Entirely possible i'v misunderstood something (Living things is not really my area) but found it interesting in any case

[QUOTE=Aman;47069631]I can only speak for Counter Strike but I truly believe men and women are not equal in that arena. Any kind of twitch FPS game with fast reaction times it seems women just hit a ceiling. That's interesting with MtF trans because of that aspect. Don't know if it has to do with the wiring of the brain or what scientifically.[/QUOTE] This is like saying women are inherently terrible drivers because they're women. They're not.

I can at least understand why they would want to look into transgendered individuals even if I disapprove of it but why is being gay even a consideration at all? And is this for both male and female teams? Because the other thread on this specified female teams which makes the wording even weirder since under those circumstances gay and lesbian are identical anyways.

What about bisexuals? (Which I am.)

[QUOTE=kaine123;47070244]What about bisexuals? (Which I am.)[/QUOTE] Goes under gay, I assume.

[QUOTE=Limed00d;47070110]This is like saying women are inherently terrible drivers because they're women. They're not.[/QUOTE] Ehhhh.

[QUOTE=Aman;47069631]I can only speak for Counter Strike but I truly believe men and women are not equal in that arena. Any kind of twitch FPS game with fast reaction times it seems women just hit a ceiling. That's interesting with MtF trans because of that aspect. Don't know if it has to do with the wiring of the brain or what scientifically.[/QUOTE] I have played CSS with women and every time they played they would be near the top of the score board.

[QUOTE=Alice3173;47070169]I can at least understand why they would want to look into transgendered individuals even if I disapprove of it but why is being gay even a consideration at all? And is this for both male and female teams? Because the other thread on this specified female teams which makes the wording even weirder since under those circumstances gay and lesbian are identical anyways.[/QUOTE] What does it matter... It's a video game not a physical sport Literally no reason in a game like league or really any game, human reaction time is still so much faster than the game that even the incredibly statistically small difference between males and females (if indeed above posts are even right) means that girls are not inherently worse off than men because both games can only respond at a speed where both are equal Its a fucking idiot in a higher up position that believes men and women, gays and trans cannot be allowed on an equal footing where it doesn't make a damn difference This level of stupidity is why Saudi women can't drive either, not that gender makes an impact, but because someone decided men and women can't be allowed to be on equal footing

I can assure you, garena is indeed full of shit.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;47069919]Instead they need to move to bribes, beating their wives and drug abuse[/QUOTE] Sick zinger! That's totally not my point at all. I guess they need more match fixing, rape jokes, and extreme suspensions for people speaking out against the norm. See how I can pull that crap too? Knock it off. [editline]3rd February 2015[/editline] I don't hate esports or anything, it's just when people match fix and split money and you get cases of people being physically disallowed due to gender or sexuality it's not what I exactly think of when I think of sports that are healthy and fun to participate in.

[QUOTE=elfbarf;47069890]I don't at all agree with what they've done considering how nonsensical it is, but I don't know why everyone is so quick to imply that women are 100% on par with men when it comes to anything that doesn't require physical strength/stamina. Sexual dimorphism is a very real thing and there are countless examples of it even with humans alone, and there's still a lot that we don't know about its effect on behavior. To claim that sexism and the patriarchy is the cause of a lack of women in every hobby/career field is ridiculous. I'm not saying it's a definite thing or anything, but there's a very real chance that there's some physical/mental difference that makes it easier for men to be interested in/excel at certain video games. Claim cultural influence all you want, but research has shown that biology does play at least a minor role in preferences. edit: Also, e-sports have separate female leagues not primarily because of sexism (which can easily be eliminated in professional scenes), but because the female teams just can't compete for the most part. Scarlett, one of the best if not best female SC2 players is trans for example (which may or may not have an impact on her performance), and many of the best female SC1/BW players just couldn't compete against the top men at all. Remember Na`vi's female Dota team? I don't either.[/QUOTE] A lot of this is actually cultural more than anything else. a) it's rarer for women to actually play videogames that are considered e-sports b) it's considered socially weirder for the women who do play them c) it's incredibly tough for a woman to get on an e-sport team. Not to mention a number of teams banned females joining outright d) the impact from weird people is still huge from any woman who "outs" herself to be actively playing. Pretty much all of this gives you a much smaller player pool, a lower likelyhood for good female players to join tournaments, small chance of getting a mixed team, a near impossibility on getting decent funding for female teams, and the surfacing of female only tournaments which exist more to promote the idea that yes women do play. Which in turn create a huge problem, since the skill level will be much lower compared to the male leagues, which just have a much larger player pool. Imagine even a good scenario where you have a 9:1 ratio on males to females. And a 99:1 ratio of skills to be a top tier player. Imagine you have 10 000 players for a given game. Out of these 9000 are men and only 90 of them are viable as pro players. From the female pool, that's only 10 players. Factor in everything I mentioned and there's a much higher chance that these any of these 10 will never enter a tournament, never train seriously and in the case that they do, they will enter female only tournaments where the skill is much lower due to the fact that a much larger amount of the 99 get in.

wow a actual case in oppression in the gaming industry. what a bunch of assholes.

[quote]This rule is stupid, but there is something of a language/culture translation issue here that is confusing the issues at play. "Gay" here doesn't mean homosexual, as we'd use it in the US or Europe. It's the English word used in the Philippines as the analog for the tagalog word "bakla." Bakla are, in the simplest terms, people who are born as men, present themselves as women, but unlike transgender women, they do not identify as women. They don't identify as men, either. They identify as "bakla" or "gay." So when the tournament says that a team can have only one transgender woman or gay, it has nothing to do with lesbians. It is targeting people who identify as bakla/gay. This is super confusing outside of the region, but I expect that this announcement was written to communicate with people who would understand the meaning. The rule is transphobic, yes, and still bad. I just wanted to clarify what is bad about it because I've seen a lot of confusion.[/quote] Basically what this means is that the rule is about how you can't have more than one "ungendered" person on an all-female team in Garena, mainly because they want "natural born females". And that kind of makes sense because if they want these all-female teams, it's sort of lame to have half of them be male people.

[QUOTE=TacticalBacon;47069132]I'd say it's more likely that gender-segregated esports exist because there's still a lot of sexism in the video game community and it's basically the only way women are going to be able to play in a tournament right now. These rules regarding gay and transgender players are just fucked though.[/QUOTE] For the first point it would be better to go the same route that chess does and just have women-only tournaments in addition to the standard ones.

[QUOTE=Scot;47069895]I'm pretty sure it's true that males have faster reaction times than females so I can kind of understand the transgender part, even if it's still stupid, but the gay and lesbian thing makes no sense at all.[/QUOTE] What is the reasoning behind all the dumbs on these posts? It has been proven in a couple of studies that men's reaction time is outstandingly superior to women's reaction time, thanks to evolution. I can see the reasoning of segregation between men and women in video games, [b]but[/b] even though it might make sense I still condemn it. Women still should at least get a try out of playing with the game, even if they lose. Qualifiers exist for a reason.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;47072828] the reaction time required in cs isnt even that high, its all about positioning and coordination[/QUOTE] Yeah, I agree, as I said they should still have a shot (hehe) at competing like in any other tournament.

And they've reversed the decision. [url]http://esports.garena.ph/newsArticle.php?contentid=00000604&cat=NEWS&subcat=LEAGUE+OF+LEGENDS[/url] [quote]Our initial ruling on LGBT player restrictions within the Iron Solari League has created a lot of good discussion and debate over the past 24 hours. After discussing the ruling with our partners and re-examining our approach, we have decided to remove these restrictions completely. This means that any player who self-identifies as female will be allowed to participate. We sincerely apologize for any offense we caused to the LGBT and gaming communities.[/quote]

[QUOTE=BreenIsALie;47070066]Males seem to have some advantage in pure reaction time though. Found this, and seen a few others with similar results[/QUOTE] The idea that skill is tied to biological sex is pretty silly. It takes time, effort, and support from others to be a pro in any sport, including e-sports.

People in my country can be so backwards at times.

People here are horribly behind the times,It's disgusting that I'm not even surprised that this happened