Garena(LoL's SEA esports partner)'s new rules, barring teams with more than one Lesbian, Gay, or Tra

[AxeI]

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;47082572]open tournaments with no gender restrictions have not resulted in an increase in female members.

and having a female only tournament is hardly [I]violating core feminist principles.[/I] it's hard, if not impossible, to push for more diversity in a community while also appeasing a group that was already included. not implying that these dudes are doing a good job at it, but the general point still stands.

literally every other tournament in the history of videogames has not had restrictions on gender. go to one of those.[/QUOTE]
Isn't it a core feminist principle to provide equal opportunity regardless of gender? I thought this was held up as an absolute goal? You say it doesn't violate core principles but you don't elaborate on that at all. I'd like to hear an explanation as to why sexism could be considered as a necessary evil from a feminist point of view.
Is the priority for feminism to end gender discrimination or to push for more diversity? Lack of the latter doesn't inherently imply sexism, the other is its textbook definition.

[ECrownofFire]

[QUOTE=_Axel;47085752]Isn't it a core feminist principle to provide equal opportunity regardless of gender? I thought this was held up as an absolute goal? You say it doesn't violate core principles but you don't elaborate on that at all. I'd like to hear an explanation as to why sexism could be considered as a necessary evil from a feminist point of view.
Is the priority for feminism to end gender discrimination or to push for more diversity? Lack of the latter doesn't inherently imply sexism, the other is its textbook definition.[/QUOTE]

Not exactly equal opportunity, but equality in general. Turns out you can only really get equal opportunity if people start out in the same place. Currently they do not, so plain old "equal opportunity" isn't enough. For example, you're not going to see any working class people get rich without them being insanely lucky. Sure they have the same opportunity to make money, but as they say, "it takes money to make money".

And actually yes lack of diversity does usually imply some amount of sexism. Why else would there be [I]any/I] field with 99% of one gender? I mean for fuck's sake, even American football has more women than eSports. And sure you don't see any in the pro scene, but that's expected in football, not so much in a scene where sex and gender don't matter at all.

[AxeI]

[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;47085949]Not exactly equal opportunity, but equality in general. Turns out you can only really get equal opportunity if people start out in the same place. Currently they do not, so plain old "equal opportunity" isn't enough. For example, you're not going to see any working class people get rich without them being insanely lucky. Sure they have the same opportunity to make money, but as they say, "it takes money to make money".[/QUOTE]
That does sounds like a well thought-out answer to me. I'm inclined to disagree, though, if only because I find it weird that feminists would engage in sexism, ie discrimination based on gender, which they claim to combat, in order to promote equality.
Additionally, in your example people from the working class actually don't have the same opportunity to make money, because wealth is an important factor. Similarly women in the e-sport scene don't have equal opportunity because the animosity of certain male players makes them uncomfortable. [I]This[/I] is the problem that needs to be dealt with.
Being sexist isn't going to solve the problem. Someone said hosting female-only tournaments would also increase the number of women in mainstream tournaments. Why would that be the case if the reason they don't participate to begin with is still present, especially if there is a gender-restricted alternative which is advertised as a safe space?
[QUOTE]And actually yes lack of diversity does usually imply some amount of sexism. Why else would there be [I]any/I] field with 99% of one gender? I mean for fuck's sake, even American football has more women than eSports. And sure you don't see any in the pro scene, but that's expected in football, not so much in a scene where sex and gender don't matter at all.[/QUOTE]
I think the difference here is that lack of diversity is more of a symptom than a cause, trying to promote diversity without solving the problems that are at its root is artificial and superficial. Sounds to me like it's more of a "feel-good" measure than an actual attempt at tackling the problem.
Trying to justify preferential treatment by saying they don't have equal opportunities yet is a band-aid solution, if we were to use it in every unfair situation you'd end up straying very far from your original goal. A gender-blind approach is the only way to actually curb discrimination, unlike this kind of balancing act which uses it to artificially prop up whatever demographic falls victim to it.