Most Scots consider themselves 'Scottish only', census figures show - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Untouch;42327636]It'd just fuck with a lot of systems, and if you require independence to "save your identity", it probably isn't very strong to start with. Just saying though.[/QUOTE] That fact kinda argues that the Union diminishes there national identity doesn't it?

Well for one thing, we don't have a national language. Well, excepting English of course.

[QUOTE=Superkilll307;42327664]Arguably wouldn't a Country run by the Scots be more able to rekindle a national culture? Like how it would be more likely to fund cultural events and have a more invested interest in it than a centralised London Government?[/QUOTE] Scotland already has a parliament to do that, that that's what they try to do. The problem with Scotland's national culture is that it is almost entirely based on Rural Traditions while 80% of the population lives in the cities, therefore using Traditional Scottish culture (e.g. Kilts, Shortbread, Highland Games), to justify national independence is silly when most of the population has very little or nothing in common with it.

[QUOTE=The mouse;42327609]Scottish National identity is far too shallow to justify a different nation, the similarities between the majority of Scotland and the Majority of England are far greater than their differences. Both Countries Mutually benefit from Unity, arguably Scotland more-so. Scotland has been part of the United Kingdom for 300 Years, there's no reason why they should leave now.[/QUOTE] If most Scots think they have a deeper national identity, then why stop them from self-determination?

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;42324728]If Scotland gains independence, I think terms of identification would go from "Great Britain" to "Mediocre Britain"[/QUOTE] or England, Wales and some islands.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;42327772]If most Scots think they have a deeper national identity, then why stop them from self-determination?[/QUOTE] Because their claim to a deeper national identity is obsolete and shallow for the reasons I posted above, they're wrong to think that they have one that justify's complete independence.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;42327719]Well for one thing, we don't have a national language. Well, excepting English of course.[/QUOTE] guys lets bring Gaelic back!

[QUOTE=The mouse;42327793]Because their claim to a deeper national identity is obsolete and shallow for the reasons I posted above, they're wrong to think that they have one that justify's complete independence.[/QUOTE] I've noticed that Scotland is far more left wing. Perhaps this could be a situation similar to that of the US and Canada.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;42327835]I've noticed that Scotland is far more left wing. Perhaps this could be a situation similar to that of the US and Canada.[/QUOTE] Scotland's only primarily left wing because people are still angry at Margaret Thatcher.

[QUOTE=Hellborg 45;42327901]Scotland's only primarily left wing because people are still angry at Margaret Thatcher.[/QUOTE] Not wanting to have another Margaret Thatcher in power is enough justification for independence.

Whether any Scottish person identifies as being British or not, it's a fact that they are. I really hope Independence doesn't happen but it is looking more and more likely. The sooner we get Salmond out the better in my opinion.

Running this country into the ground should be our right.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;42320211]Yes, except the rural areas hold tiny numbers of people. The vast bulk of people in Scotland live in areas that are full of English speaking people who have been speaking English since the Early middle ages. The idea that Gaelic itself is a national language is as mad as claiming that Basque ought to be the national language of Spain.[/QUOTE] Thats a rather flawed way of veiwing it. During the early stages of union gaelic speakers were effectively disenfranchised automatically as the defacto native language had no place in a new english speaking government. IE. "Hey lets discriminate against scottish gaelic speakers" "oh look now nobody speaks gaelic anymore, that's interesting."

Well I'm glad you scots feel proud enough to call yourselves Scottish, I prefer to refer to myself as British since I hate England, it's such a shitty country.

[QUOTE=Superkilll307;42327141]Scoti means Irish you twonk.[/QUOTE] The roman church didnt care. Regnum Scotia was scotland, Scotia Maoir (spelling) was ireland. Scotia is an overaching term that means gaelic

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;42327912]Not wanting to have another Margaret Thatcher in power is enough justification for independence.[/QUOTE] But you guys make up a huge chunk of the labour voting block, please don't leave us to the tories, we need you Scotland!

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;42328128]But you guys make up a huge chunk of the labour voting block, please don't leave us to the tories, we need you Scotland![/QUOTE] I think that's actually the best argument for Scottish Independence.

[QUOTE=Superkilll307;42327559]Just a question to those who oppose Scottish independence, what reasons do you oppose it for?[/QUOTE] A) now is not the time to break up the union B) the current independence "craze" has been perpetuated by Salmond's childish Braveheart mentality ([URL="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/scottish-politics/8693806/UK-riots-Alex-Salmond-accused-of-gloating-over-English-violence.html"]see: his off hand remarks about the london riots[/URL]) C) it will be so incredibly inconvenient and mess with two economies and will particularly hurt the scottish borders

[QUOTE=The mouse;42328152]I think that's actually the best argument for Scottish Independence.[/QUOTE] Oh don't even start tory boy, don't even start

Alex Salmond reminds me of this... [video=youtube;Slu1OuykMIk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Slu1OuykMIk[/video]

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;42328099]Thats a rather flawed way of veiwing it. During the early stages of union gaelic speakers were effectively disenfranchised automatically as the defacto native language had no place in a new english speaking government. IE. "Hey lets discriminate against scottish gaelic speakers" "oh look now nobody speaks gaelic anymore, that's interesting."[/QUOTE] Except the vast majority of Scots never spoke Gaelic. The vast bulk of the population since the early middle ages lived in the Lowlands, speaking English. In fact the Saxons conquered the Lowlands in the 6th century and their language remained rooted there ever since. To the Scottish people, Gaelic is a foreign language that the government is desperately trying to force on people, even though we never historically spoke it or have any desire to. [editline]27th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=SeamanStains;42327989]Running this country into the ground should be our right.[/QUOTE] No country possesses the right to run itself into the ground. [editline]27th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Hellborg 45;42327812]guys lets bring Gaelic back![/QUOTE] Oh god no.

If you mean gotodin, then yes that's a mixed area. That whole region around edinburgh only makes up a small percentage of scotlands landmass though so that's a moot point. Gotodin and Strathclyde only fell under scottish control much later, by definition the highlands are the seat of scottish origin.

Only thing I know about Gaelic is that there was a Choir club that sang in it at school here in Nova Scotia.

[QUOTE=WeekendWarrior;42328189]A) now is not the time to break up the union B) the current independence "craze" has been perpetuated by Salmond's childish Braveheart mentality ([URL="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/scottish-politics/8693806/UK-riots-Alex-Salmond-accused-of-gloating-over-English-violence.html"]see: his off hand remarks about the london riots[/URL]) C) it will be so incredibly inconvenient and mess with two economies and will particularly hurt the scottish borders[/QUOTE] Since when is mere inconvenience a reason to forgo self-determination?

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;42328366]If you mean gotodin, then yes that's a mixed area. That whole region around edinburgh only makes up a small percentage of scotland though so that's a moot point. Gotodin and Strathclyde only fell under scottish control much later, by definition the highlands are the seat of scottish origin.[/QUOTE] The Lowlands hold the vast bulk of the population, despite having little land. Much of the history of the Lowlands has been it passing in and out of control of the Scottish until the modern era. (Originally them being under control of Saxon kings). I've actually stood on a few mountains and it's possible to see practically the entire lowlands from them. They are chock full of people in contrast to the rest of Northern Britain.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;42328373]Since when is mere inconvenience a reason to forgo self-determination?[/QUOTE] Since when should self-determination be done at the expense of the people? That's just a stupid idea (not that I think Scottish independence would necessarily go wrong, but I'm just addressing the point)

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;42328373]Since when is mere inconvenience a reason to forgo self-determination?[/QUOTE] Because it will severely affect the industries based in the Scottish borders as well as the operation of the east coast rail lines. It will also affect the lifestyles of the people whose towns straddle the border.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;42328382]The Lowlands hold the vast bulk of the population, despite having little land. Much of the history of the Lowlands has been it passing in and out of control of the Scottish until the modern era.[/QUOTE] I agree, I don't refute that. However scotland by denfition originated from pictish and gaelic people in the northern highlands so bringing up "oh, well the people in the lowlands are such and such ..." is a moot point since the lowlands are basically the worst example of scottish cultural indentity to start with.

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;42328437]I agree, I don't refute that. However scotland by denfition originated from pictish and gaelic people in the northern highlands so bringing up "oh, well the people in the lowlands are such and such ..." is a moot point since the lowlands are basically the worst example of scottish cultural indentity to start with.[/QUOTE] Except why form an independent country based on those people when the Lowlanders never spoke Gaelic? How about we just grant independence to the Highlands (which were full of Gaelic speakers who remained Catholic and never really accepted English authority, in stark contrast to the Lowlands?) Remember that the Lowlanders hated the Highlanders more than they hated the English.

Is it ok if I read everyone's posts in a scottish accent in this thread? Please?