Drake Bell Tweets That He'll Still Call Caitlyn Jenner 'Bruce' As Controversy Around Transitioning F
274 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Rocket;47862695]Also, if you prefer being obtuse or being a dick to using improper English, I think you need to change your priorities.[/QUOTE]
i was just pointing out that this whole problem of what to call transgendered people is very much only a modern invention, hundreds of years ago, they didn't give a fuck
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47862430]
I'm not ignoring you, you're not on my ignore list but that's the point of what people do towards people like yourself especially when you don't really care about why you're wrong. Eventually, you're just ignored. [/QUOTE]
I'm sorry if sometimes I come out too strong, I really don't have a problem based on people sexual orientation. I try to treat all the people with the same respect, even people with shitty opinions because I don't believe everything about a person can be summed up in one opinion about one topic.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47862430]
Just ask yourself, Ragekipz, how would you push a person who wanted to legalize hitting you specifically in the face? How would you deal with that? Through legal manners or through social ostracization?[/QUOTE]
Social ostracization is something I'd never wish to impose to somone else. Maybe you think it's right on this position, but I've seen social ostracization and empathy prevents me from doing it with other people.
[QUOTE=counterpo0;47862618]Holy fuck this thread. Bruce or Caitlin what ever just refer to it as "Jenner"[/QUOTE]
It's not a fucking rock they're talking about.
I really don't know why this Caitlyn stuff is everywhere, it just blew up everywhere yesterday.
No idea who they are or what they do
How about if someone says something mean or rude and you don't agree with you just actually ignore them instead of calling them a "cuntbucket", sounding like a five year old and continuing to argue with them and show them how wrong their ways are. Take your own advice, just ignore them, you can't change their dumb thoughts.
[QUOTE=counterpo0;47862618]Holy fuck this thread. Bruce or Caitlin what ever just refer to it as "Jenner"[/QUOTE]
"it"
Oh Jesus christ, no...
No one should call anybody an "it", unless the subject perfers to use those pronouns. If they don't want to be called "it", then that's pretty much dehumanizing them.
am I the only one here who really doesn't see this as "grr ill never recognize your transexuality! fuck the trannies!"
i think people itt are blowing this way out of proportion
[QUOTE=ProffesorAssHat;47863025]"it"
Oh Jesus christ, no...
No one should call anybody an "it", unless the subject perfers to use those pronouns. If they don't want to be called "it", then that's pretty much dehumanizing them.[/QUOTE]
So dehumanizing someone is ok if they want to be dehumanized?
wow i thought caitlyn jenner was his daughter or something when i heard about this on the radio, turns out it's just bruce
You're all wrong.
Jenny Jenner would've been the right choice
[I]Jenny Jenner: Derail the internet[/I]
he is a she
that she is still responsible for 'his' career
drake is a tool
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;47863054]So dehumanizing someone is ok if they want to be dehumanized?[/QUOTE]
The dehumanizing part is disrespecting a person by not calling them what they want to be called.
I think there's a limit on that, but that's my personal subjective limit where people who seriously want to be referred to as "xir" or such terms is a little bit much for me.
Anyone who is trans and wants to be referred to as "he" or "she" is being disrespected and dehumanized when you refer to them as the other pronoun intentionally, and doubly so if you call them "It". If that's what they want though, I don't see the issue or how you're running into one.
[QUOTE=Rocket;47863084]If they want to be called it, call them it. It doesn't harm anyone.[/QUOTE]
So there's nothing inherently wrong with dehumanizing someone?
[QUOTE=Rocket;47863157]Just call someone what they want to be called. If you mess up, apologize and correct yourself. If they want to be called it, use it. If they want to be called xir, call them xir. If they want you to call them an octopus, just call them an octopus. It doesn't matter how ridiculous you think it is, if they're not joking then it's something that's important to them. That way you don't have to be a dick.[/QUOTE]
You can only speak to me in terms of "Buffalo" or "Police" replacing all words.
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
Police police police police police police police police
That's an example of ridiculous behaviour that no one would do, sure, but if someone did do it, would you respect it? Is there really no limit in your opinion? I can see having no limits in and of itself causing problems. Just in terms of basic communication there's going to be issues.
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;47863198]So there's nothing inherently wrong with dehumanizing someone?[/QUOTE]
It isn't dehumanizing if they're asking to be called that. That's the point.
The disrespect is the part that's dehumanizing.
I've already explained this though and you seem determined to ignore it.
[QUOTE=Rocket;47863222]You're not dehumanizing them. Dehumanizing them is reducing them to an object by referring to them as an object instead of what they want to be referred to as. If you use "it" as a pronoun because they want you to use "it" as a pronoun, you're not dehumanizing them because you're just respecting their choice.[/QUOTE]
Even if their choice is to be an object and not a human?
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;47863198]So there's nothing inherently wrong with dehumanizing someone?[/QUOTE]
why does it matter if someone refers to a person as "it" because that is said person's preferred pronoun(s)? It would be worse to blatantly refuse to do otherwise and call them by the pronouns you see fit.
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;47863231]Even if their choice is to be an object and not a human?[/QUOTE]
being called "it" if that is your preference doesn't make you any less of a human and it doesn't mean you're an object.
[QUOTE=Rocket;47863230]Then just don't talk to that person. Refusing to respect someone's choice to be called something other than what you think is "appropriate" because it's a slippery slope or whatever is dumb. It takes minimal effort to use "xir" instead of "him" or "her."[/QUOTE]
So if enough people were just to "Not talk to that person" wouldn't that be bad in it's own way and wouldn't you be calling those people horrible people for ignoring that person?
[editline]2nd June 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;47863231]Even if their choice is to be an object and not a human?[/QUOTE]
I feel like you're maliciously avoiding the explanation you've already been given here.
[QUOTE=Rocket;47863241]Who gives a shit, it doesn't affect you! They can call themselves a tri-gendered pyrofox rockkin all they want. That doesn't give you a right to be a dick to them.[/QUOTE]
I'm just considering the conclusions that your logic lead to, which seem to be that there is nothing inherently wrong with dehumanizing someone, the transgression begins when you do it against their will.
This means the misdeed is the failure to do what they want you to, essentially meaning that anything can be right or wrong depending on the subject's personal whims.
[QUOTE=Rocket;47863274]If someone chooses to communicate in a way that impedes communication, that's kind of their own fault. If someone chooses to identify by a pronoun that is two letters off from a commonly used pronoun, that's no reason to deny their identity. Again, that's like zero effort on your part.[/QUOTE]
So if a million people each wanted their own word to refer to themselves, I have to add a million plus variations of that to my dialogue. That seems like something more than I'm going to do because honestly, I'm going to have more important things on my mind like, paying my rent, eating food, etc.
is there a name for people who are women in the morning and men at night, or vice versa?
like fluidics or changelings or something
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;47863272]I'm just considering the conclusions that your logic lead to, which seem to be that there is nothing inherently wrong with dehumanizing someone, the transgression begins when you do it against their will.
This means the misdeed is the failure to do what they want you to, essentially meaning that anything can be right or wrong depending on the subject's personal whims.[/QUOTE]
[B]it's not dehumanzing if that's what they want[/B]
it's dehumanizing to readily disrespect people.
How you keep intentionally over looking this is beyond me.
[QUOTE=Rocket;47863274]Yes. That is how human society works. Different people see different things as being right and wrong. Different cultures have different cultural norms. This should not surprise you.[/QUOTE]
So rightness and wrongness should be dependant on what an individual feels they should be?
[QUOTE=Antlerp;47863287]is there a name for people who are women in the morning and men at night, or vice versa?
like fluidics or changelings or something[/QUOTE]
genderfluid
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;47863296]So rightness is and wrongness should be dependant on what an individual feels they should be?[/QUOTE]
Oh, are you going to toss down undeniable proof of objective morality right here and now or do you have a fucking point in saying that morality can't be subjective?
[QUOTE=Rocket;47863327]You can remember their names, why can't you remember their pronouns? And if you forget, you can just ask!
Putting in a [i]minimal amount of effort[/i] to respect someone else's wishes is something everybody does every day.
[editline]2nd June 2015[/editline]
Yes.[/QUOTE]
Because there's really not that many names out there. Most people have a name you've heard before, a word you've heard before. At least in north america.
Remembering a basic part of english and adding in a new word for everyone who wants their own word is a little ridiculous.
If I demanded right here and now that you only refer to me as "Sire", then would you follow that? I'd be upset if you didn't, so seemingly you should, right?
[QUOTE=Rocket;47863327]Yes.[/QUOTE]
So it's absolutely ok if someone decides that you're stuck with the gender you're born with and everyone should respect their conclusion?
[editline]blah[/editline]
I'm genuinely confused as to how you can think the above is wrong if wrongness is defined by each person and their view should be respected.
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;47863362]So it's absolutely ok if someone decides that you're stuck with the gender you're born with and everyone should respect their conclusion?[/QUOTE]
That person is entitled to their belief, but no, once they start harming and impeding another person(Yes, by denying a person their gender you can harm them psychologically) then they're in the wrong.
Harming another person is wrong, and sure, you're going to go into some diatribe about how it's impossible for us to come to that conclusion with a subjective morality system, but it isn't and most sensible people have come to the conclusion on their own, that harming other people is wrong.
[QUOTE=Rocket;47863377]Do you not understand the idea of subjective morality? There is no objective right and wrong.[/QUOTE]
Subjective morality doesn't mean you get to be utterly inconsistent in your ethics. If a person thinks gay sex is wrong, by your idea of ethics they should be applauded for thinking that because it's what they think is personally right.
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