• Drake Bell Tweets That He'll Still Call Caitlyn Jenner 'Bruce' As Controversy Around Transitioning F
    274 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Rocket;47863392]Sire is a title and not a pronoun, but if you want to use it as a pronoun, sure. You're not serious, but if you were, I'd do it to avoid being a dick. If you meet someone who has a weird name, do you tell them "I'm just going to call you John because I can't remember your name?" No. You put in an effort to remember their name. If you can't, you ask them. If you say the wrong name, you apologize and say the right name.[/QUOTE] Yes, with a name. If everyone wanted their very own and different and unique pronoun, would that be okay or would that seemingly clutter society and conversation? [editline]2nd June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;47863400]Subjective morality doesn't mean you get to be utterly inconsistent in your ethics. If a person thinks gay sex is wrong, by your idea of ethics they should be applauded for thinking that because it's what they think is personally right.[/QUOTE] No. It's not self consistent because in your scenario, someone is being denied equality and basic human dignity(though you will no doubt disagree) and is being harmed.
[QUOTE=Ragekipz;47861355]You can call people whatever you want, unless you're directing yourself to person of authority like a federal judge.[/QUOTE] Basically just "You can be a total asshole if you want."
[QUOTE=Rocket;47863413]Do you need help moving those goalposts? The topic was never about celebrating people who have different opinions of right and wrong, it was about whether or not respecting someone's choice to use the pronoun "it" is ok because some people think it's right and some people think it's wrong. Respecting someone's opinion to be called "it" hurts nobody. Respecting someone's opinion that gay sex is wrong hurts a ton of people. [editline]2nd June 2015[/editline] We manage it with names, we can manage it with pronouns.[/QUOTE] Not everyone has a unique name. There are not 7 billion names. There are tons of repeated ones. Think about it, do you really think we all have unique names? I know 12 people with my name and my name is not a common name. I get that it's a matter of respect and I want to be respectful, but I don't understand why they're a unique pronoun, why they're a unique gender that isn't part of the biological spectrum. I have questions, asking questions isn't wrong. I won't believe that it is no matter what anyone says.
[QUOTE=Rocket;47863413]Do you need help moving those goalposts? The topic was never about celebrating people who have different opinions of right and wrong, it was about whether or not respecting someone's choice to use the pronoun "it" is ok because some people think it's right and some people think it's wrong. Respecting someone's opinion to be called "it" hurts nobody. Respecting someone's opinion that gay sex is wrong hurts a ton of people.[/QUOTE] Some people call this the natural progression of conversation, you yourself seemed fine with responding in the affirmative to: [QUOTE]So rightness and wrongness should be dependant on what an individual feels they should be?[/QUOTE] I never mentioned celebration either, I simply referred to affirming people's personal opinions about what right and wrong are, which people of your ethical persuasions seem to think. I genuinely don't understand how anyone consistently holds up this concept of right and wrong, I am merely inquiring so that I may understand.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47863283]So if a million people each wanted their own word to refer to themselves, I have to add a million plus variations of that to my dialogue. That seems like something more than I'm going to do because honestly, I'm going to have more important things on my mind like, paying my rent, eating food, etc.[/QUOTE] That's a dumb example because A: you don't personally know one million people B: that's a really unrealistic hypothetical scenario that has no basis in any respectable argument
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;47863450]Some people call this the natural progression of conversation, you yourself seemed fine with responding in the affirmative to: I never mentioned celebration either, I simply referred to affirming people's personal opinions about what right and wrong is, which people of your ethical persuasions seem to think. I genuinely don't understand how anyone consistently holds up this concept of right and wrong, I am merely inquiring to understand.[/QUOTE] It has been explained to you. You have ignored that. In your case, you are harming someone actively by caring about what they do with their own private time behind closed doors, a place that is literally none of your business. By caring so much about what those people do in their own time that you demonize them and create the pre 80's atmosphere towards gay people that was just attrocious and harmed many of them, and by just standing by and allowing that to happen, the obvious implications are "PEOPLE WILL BE HARMED". Now, as impossible as it is for you to believe, but we can all choose to believe that harming people is wrong, and beliefs that harm people are also wrong. The belief that gay people are wrong to be themselves, one that you have AFAIK said you hold, is harmful. The belief that that belief is wrong is not harmful because no ones going to oppress you. Just ignore you.
[QUOTE=FingerSpazem;47863470]That's a dumb example because A:you don't personally know one million people B: that's a really unrealistic hypothetical scenario that has no basis in any respectable argument[/QUOTE] No, but as someone who has to interact with the public regularly, I would be running into tons of people who all want their own pronoun. I just don't get it. I'm 100% behind LGBT and trans people. 100%. But everyone who wants their own pronoun just because? I don't get it and a simple explanation of "That's just how it is, respect them" is a little ridiculous because I really don't expect people to bother referring to me personally as a unique pronoun. i want to be unique, call me my own unique pronoun. That's all this seems to be to me, it is distinctly detached from trans issues when it starts entering random words as pronouns and no longer our biological gender that we're limited to. [editline]2nd June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Rocket;47863491]Let's say you knew 1 million people with 1 million unique names. Would you try to call them each by their name?[/QUOTE] Yes. Now if they each had their own unique pronoun, that's up to 3 million, plus the original 1 million names. 4 million words to refer to people each individually. I'm sorry but that's a bit much no?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47863502]No, but as someone who has to interact with the public regularly, I would be running into tons of people who all want their own pronoun. I just don't get it. I'm 100% behind LGBT and trans people. 100%. But everyone who wants their own pronoun just because? I don't get it and a simple explanation of "That's just how it is, respect them" is a little ridiculous because I really don't expect people to bother referring to me personally as a unique pronoun. i want to be unique, call me my own unique pronoun. That's all this seems to be to me, it is distinctly detached from trans issues when it starts entering random words as pronouns and no longer our biological gender that we're limited to.[/QUOTE] You can't just assume that, that's almost like a slippery slope argument dude.
I never thought that I'd be 600k in debt but I found a way I found a waaaaaay
You see Rocket, I'm trying to show that you don't get around the problems of subjective morality by flatly stating that personal harm makes it wrong. Anyone who subscribes to subjective morality and simultaneously supports one group while lambasting the other is simply having dissonant thoughts. I would recommend thinking deeper about your ethics.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;47861292]It's a well known public figure transitioning. It's a fairly big deal since it allows the Transgender community to be seen in the news other than "Trans person murdered" or "Trans kid commits suicide".[/QUOTE] I think what he's saying is why is it all over the news? It's because it's a big deal in the transgender community. I think a lot of people including myself don't really get the whole breaking news thing with this type of news. Tired of hearing about him/her every time I turn on the news. But then again this is why I don't like watching the news and barely ever do. TV in general is filled with stupid shit you have to sit through that no one cares about. But to get to the point at hand the people wondering why this is so news worthy are basically the people that could give two shits what gender you are. Just be happy and live your life no one cares what surgeries you get.
[QUOTE=apierce1289;47863590]I think what he's saying is why is it all over the news? It's because it's a big deal in the transgender community. I think a lot of people including myself don't really get the whole breaking news thing with this type of news. Tired of hearing about him/her every time I turn on the news. But then again this is why I don't like watching the news and barely ever do. TV in general is filled with stupid shit you have to sit through that no one cares about. But to get to the point at hand the people wondering why this is so news worthy are basically the people that could give two shits what gender you are. Just be happy and live your life no one cares what surgeries you get.[/QUOTE] Sadly OTHER people give a lot of shits about what gender people are and transgenders are generally discriminated, bullied and/or misunderstood. So it is a big deal for a respectable public figure to come out as transgendered.
[QUOTE=apierce1289;47863590]I think what he's saying is why is it all over the news? It's because it's a big deal in the transgender community. I think a lot of people including myself don't really get the whole breaking news thing with this type of news. Tired of hearing about him/her every time I turn on the news. But then again this is why I don't like watching the news and barely ever do. TV in general is filled with stupid shit you have to sit through that no one cares about. But to get to the point at hand the people wondering why this is so news worthy are basically the people that could give two shits what gender you are. Just be happy and live your life no one cares what surgeries you get.[/QUOTE] Unfortunately, trans people are one of the most marginalized members of the LGBT community, and murders of trans people are very common because of their gender identity.
[QUOTE=apierce1289;47863590]I think what he's saying is why is it all over the news? It's because it's a big deal in the transgender community. I think a lot of people including myself don't really get the whole breaking news thing with this type of news. Tired of hearing about him/her every time I turn on the news. But then again this is why I don't like watching the news and barely ever do. TV in general is filled with stupid shit you have to sit through that no one cares about. But to get to the point at hand the people wondering why this is so news worthy are basically the people that could give two shits what gender you are. Just be happy and live your life no one cares what surgeries you get.[/QUOTE] Representation doesn't matter, right guys? I mean it isn't like society treats trans people like dirt or anything.
[QUOTE=Rocket;47863539]So you're willing to refer to them by one key part of their identity - their name, which they can make up on their own whenever they'd like - but not by another, because the other part is too hard? [editline]2nd June 2015[/editline] Just like how you won't find 1 million people with 1 million unique names, you won't find 1 million people with 1 million unique pronouns. But just like you might find some people who make up a random name and want to be called that, you find people who make up their own pronouns and want to be called that. You should respect both.[/QUOTE] Exactly this, the situation he's saying is too unrealistic to ever happen. I live in Seattle, it's like trans central here. I have more trans friends and acquaintances than I can count on my fingers. The amount of people I know who go by pronouns other than he or she? Zero. Like seriously, get real. It will never become a problem for you.
[QUOTE=FingerSpazem;47863687]Exactly this, the situation he's saying is too unrealistic to ever happen. I live in Seattle, it's like trans central here. I have more trans friends and acquaintances than I can count on my fingers. The amount of people I know who go by pronouns other than he or she? Zero. Like seriously, get real. It will never become a problem for you.[/QUOTE] The idea that there's this majority of people who demand "xir" and "xim" or other silly words as pronouns is purely gullible people being fooled trolls on tumblr. There are real people who want pronouns besides normal "He" and "She" stuff, but it's not common. I even know a non-binary person and he uses male pronouns because he's male and it doesn't bother him at all.
[QUOTE=Rocket;47863612]The question wasn't "should we ever have an objective moral stance even though morality is subjective." People have their own ideas of right and wrong. That doesn't mean I can't say that some things are right and some things are wrong, it just means that that's not the absolute truth. There is no absolute truth.[/QUOTE] And yet you're claiming people should affirm the personal opinions that certain people have about themselves and the world whilst harshly criticizing people that disagree with those opinions, is this due to the fact that you have similar morals to the former?
[QUOTE=apierce1289;47863590]I think what he's saying is why is it all over the news? It's because it's a big deal in the transgender community. I think a lot of people including myself don't really get the whole breaking news thing with this type of news. Tired of hearing about him/her every time I turn on the news. But then again this is why I don't like watching the news and barely ever do. TV in general is filled with stupid shit you have to sit through that no one cares about. But to get to the point at hand the people wondering why this is so news worthy are basically the people that could give two shits what gender you are. [B]Just be happy and live your life no one cares what surgeries you get.[/B][/QUOTE] one of the most sheltered things i've read in my entire life do we really have to spell out why this is important to you? caitlyn jenner is one of the first celebrity trans people to come out (well there was laverne cox too but she transitioned before becoming famous i think). trans people are [I]the[/I] most marginalized people in the world, basically. the fact that so many people are in support of caitlyn (2.4m followers in less than 24 hours) tells trans youth that yes, what you're going through isn't wrong. ideally, yeah, gender identity w[I]shouldn't[/I] matter. but we live in a world where trans people are [I]beaten, raped, and murdered[/I] for how they identify. doing this half-assed "hey wow just accept people haha : ) " is anti-progressive as fuck, because marginalized people [I]need[/I] representation.
[QUOTE=Rocket;47863948]No, I'm claiming that people should respect other people's choices when they aren't harmful to anyone at all.[/QUOTE] What if someone disagrees with this?
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;47864005]What if someone disagrees with this?[/QUOTE] Their choices of what to do with themselves doesn't harm others, the negativity towards them however does.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;47863933]one of the most sheltered things i've read in my entire life do we really have to spell out why this is important to you? caitlyn jenner is one of the first celebrity trans people to come out (well there was laverne cox too but she transitioned before becoming famous i think). trans people are [I]the[/I] most marginalized people in the world, basically. the fact that so many people are in support of caitlyn (2.4m followers in less than 24 hours) tells trans youth that yes, what you're going through isn't wrong. ideally, yeah, gender identity w[I]shouldn't[/I] matter. but we live in a world where trans people are [I]beaten, raped, and murdered[/I] for how they identify. doing this half-assed "hey wow just accept people haha : ) " is anti-progressive as fuck, because marginalized people [I]need[/I] representation.[/QUOTE] This actually makes more since. It's just really stupid to see that people actually descriminate against who people really are or want to feel they are (not sure I'm saying that right). I've got a trans friend and it's actually pretty cool to see that he's finally happy. It is a little annoying seeing it everywhere. But it's important none the less. Why is it so hard to just leave people alone and let them be who they want to be. The only time it's ever really odd is when you get a flamer who has to make it known to the whole establishment that their gay or whatever. But sometimes it's funny and they think it's funny so that it's confusing lol. I used to work at a gas station and saw tons of interesting people. Hopefully I wrote this correctly but basically why would someone be so mean to these people?
[QUOTE=.Lain;47861283]thanks for proving that you aren't relevant in the slightest anymore, drake bell[/QUOTE] he's about as relevant as your post is tbh
[QUOTE=Ragekipz;47861386]Whoever it's important to notice that flaming is a bannable offense. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Backseat Moderation" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight][/QUOTE] Not really seeing the issue with him pointing out that flaming is a bannable offence. The guy was flaming and it was directed at him, so of course he was going to point it out. Gotta meet that ban quota though, hey? Not to derail the thread though, I suppose you've got to call a guy what he wants to be called, and if he doesn't want to be called Bruce, then don't call him Bruce.
[QUOTE=proch;47865019]he's about as relevant as your post is tbh[/QUOTE] damn.............. [editline]3rd June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Baron von Hax;47865059]Not really seeing the issue with him pointing out that flaming is a bannable offence. The guy was flaming and it was directed at him, so of course he was going to point it out. Gotta meet that ban quota though, hey? Not to derail the thread though, I suppose you've got to call a guy what he wants to be called, and if he doesn't want to be called Bruce, then don't call him Bruce.[/QUOTE] read the ban notice fuckin hell. what you described is literally against the rules
[QUOTE=Rocket;47865036]maybe you should leave those "flamers" alone[/QUOTE] So I'm the bad guy when someone is having a fit in a store and being over dramatic. It's funny when anyone does that because it's childish. Either that or I saw way to many childish people while working customer service so it got to the point where it was funny. Either way if you're an adult throwing a tantrum with your bf/gf it's silly. Funny part is that usually the other partner would apologize when they didn't need to probably because they were embarrassed by their other half.
[QUOTE=Rocket;47865281]You're the bad guy because you're using homophobic slurs.[/QUOTE] I'm not homophobic but maybe i should have said overly flamboyant but think what you like. Good day sir.
[IMG]http://www.x17online.com/media/images/2015/06/caitlyn-jenner-boobs-060115.jpg[/IMG] prolly photoshopped to hell and back but I would still do her
[QUOTE=Rocket;47865689]Thank you for informing us of your opinion how much you would want to have sex with this woman. This is 100% necessary.[/QUOTE] Is it your time of the month today? Why are you being a dick to everyone that doesn't think the way you do or talk the way you do for that matter?
[QUOTE=Rocket;47865689]Thank you for informing us of your opinion how much you would want to have sex with this woman. This is 100% necessary.[/QUOTE] I'd fuck her too but I only do dudes.
[QUOTE=Rocket;47865790]Because it's really stupid to objectify someone like that. But way to respond with another misogynistic comment. [editline]2nd June 2015[/editline] This is not an issue of speaking the way I speak. This is an issue of not using slurs and objectifying people.[/QUOTE] I've never known any other term than flamer that's what one of my gay friends calls them. Sorry. Out of curiosity what's the correct term for someone that's overly dramatic like that? In for learning :)
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