Drake Bell Tweets That He'll Still Call Caitlyn Jenner 'Bruce' As Controversy Around Transitioning F
274 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Rocket;47865790]Because it's really stupid to objectify someone like that. But way to respond with another misogynistic comment.
[editline]2nd June 2015[/editline]
This is not an issue of speaking the way I speak. This is an issue of not using slurs and objectifying people.[/QUOTE]
what are you talking about? Of course I would take her out to dinner first.
[QUOTE=apierce1289;47865891]I've never known any other term than flamer that's what one of my gay friends calls them. Sorry. Out of curiosity what's the correct term for someone that's overly dramatic like that? In for learning :)[/QUOTE]
[I]flamer[/I] is a derogatory off-shoot of the word [I]flamboyant.[/i] here's like 1,000 similes you could have easily googled yourself
[url]http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/flamboyant[/url]
and don't assume that other lgbtaq types are comfortable with slurs just because your [I]one friend[/I] uses it.
[QUOTE=apierce1289;47865735]Is it your time of the month today? Why are you being a dick to everyone that doesn't think the way you do or talk the way you do for that matter?[/QUOTE]
Sorry, but publicly announcing how you'd fuck a complete stranger is creepy.
A "She looks great" or something along the lines would be much more appropriate, if you've gotta say anything really.
Anyways sorry if I offended anyone. Learn something new every day.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;47865947]Sorry, but publicly announcing how you'd fuck a complete stranger is creepy.
A "She looks great" or something along the lines would be much more appropriate, if you've gotta say anything really.[/QUOTE]
But she doesn't look great
[QUOTE=Lebofly;47866095]But she doesn't look great[/QUOTE]
Then the adage "If you have nothing nice to say don't say anything at all" applies
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;47866115]Then the adage "If you have nothing nice to say don't say anything at all" applies[/QUOTE]
touché
[QUOTE=Rocket;47864377]Then I can disagree with them.
The point of subjective morality isn't that we can't make rules or that nobody can have an opinion, it's that there is no absolute truth. So every individual can have their own idea of right and wrong, because there is no such thing as an absolute right or wrong.[/QUOTE]
Making rules would imply that certain ideas of morality should stretch beyond subjectivity.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;47865947]Sorry, but publicly announcing how you'd fuck a complete stranger is creepy.
A "She looks great" or something along the lines would be much more appropriate, if you've gotta say anything really.[/QUOTE]
non-trans people, especially men (because women usually pull the "you're prettier/just a pretty as me!" bullshit) really love to say this whole "haha i'd still fuck them even though they're a... you know"
it's putting trans people up on some kind of mocking pedestal. it's never a genuine "you're beautiful," it's a "you're beautiful.... compared to my warped, disgusting perspective of trans people."
[QUOTE=lintz;47861375]cuntbucket = [highlight]("flaming")[/highlight][/QUOTE]
mods need to learn to chill
Who cares if he backpedals, honestly. It shows he has the capacity to learn that some attitudes are not accepted anymore and change.
[QUOTE=Nebukadnezzer;47866334]mods need to learn to chill[/QUOTE]
careful or else you'll be next
[QUOTE=Nebukadnezzer;47866334]mods need to learn to chill
Who cares if he backpedals, honestly. It shows he has the capacity to learn that some attitudes are not accepted anymore and change.[/QUOTE]
Yes cuntbucket is a totally cool and adult thing to say.
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;47866171]Making rules would imply that certain ideas of morality should stretch beyond subjectivity.[/QUOTE]
because if enough people in a society share a set of morals they're going to want to impose them on others in an attempt to get more people to accept them as, from their perspective, they are good morals.
just because you know that morality is subjective doesn't mean you exempt yourself from holding subjective morals. most people think that they have good morals, morals that they might think does them and society good, and they're likely to want to share or impose their subjective morals on other people as a way to try and better society in their view. other people's subjective morals may be counter to this person's goal, so they may decry them as being, from their perspective, a harmful set of morals.
Thanks, in advance, for any info.
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[highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("" - UberMensch))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;47863231]Even if their choice is to be an object and not a human?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;47863054]So dehumanizing someone is ok if they want to be dehumanized?[/QUOTE]
Are you even mentally aware of whats going on around you physically at this moment?
look around you for a moment. I wonder if you even know what room you're in. Because you sure as shit have no idea what you're talking about.
Because people who are totally disconnected from what they're talking about show up in these trans treads like, every fucking time, but frankly I don't even think you're even paying attention to anything going on, you're just kind of... posting words, but you don't seem you have any actual clue on what they say, it's just coming out of your fingers. Your only experience of trans people are people on the internet, and while I've never really met any trans people personally, I understand that trans people are actual human beings. They aren't these weird creatures you see on the internet, they're actual physical human beings who just want the right to be called what they want to be called, that's it. They aren't objectifying themselves or dehumanizing themselves, that is absolutely retarded, they only want to be treated with the same respect and integrity as a normal person and live a normal life.
Why is it that so many people who come to trans threads seem as if they're completely disconnected from their own head?
[QUOTE=Ragekipz;47862727]I'm sorry if sometimes I come out too strong, I really don't have a problem based on people sexual orientation. I try to treat all the people with the same respect, even people with shitty opinions because I don't believe everything about a person can be summed up in one opinion about one topic.
Social ostracization is something I'd never wish to impose to somone else. Maybe you think it's right on this position, but I've seen social ostracization and empathy prevents me from doing it with other people.[/QUOTE]
the people who are ostracizing them deserve to be socially protested because they're frankly, against an entire group of peoples way of life. It's pretty fucking terrible when someone tells you that you're living wrong and shouldn't live it that way.
[QUOTE=DestinyDstryr;47861442]Whatever happened to free speech?[/QUOTE]
Free to speak, free to be criticised. Not like he got arrested.
Shockingly ignorant tweet, no doubt, but I wouldn't want to necessarily attribute it to outright malice. I feel that him getting dog-piled in retaliation won't help change his view, but it's probably inevitable, given that he's a semi-high profile figure.
[QUOTE=Gum100;47871870]Shockingly ignorant tweet, no doubt, but I wouldn't want to necessarily attribute it to outright malice. I feel that him getting dog-piled in retaliation won't help change his view, but it's probably inevitable, given that he's a semi-high profile figure.[/QUOTE]
How could it be taken any other way then maliciously? He's explicitly saying "I will not respect you". Calling a trans person by their chosen name is some of the most basic respect you can give, and he won't even give that.
[QUOTE=Starlight 456;47872040]How could it be taken any other way then maliciously? He's explicitly saying "I will not respect you". Calling a trans person by their chosen name is some of the most basic respect you can give, and he won't even give that.[/QUOTE]
Except Bell made another post explicitly stating that he respects Jenner.
[QUOTE=Soleeedus;47872705]Except Bell made another post explicitly stating that he respects Jenner.[/QUOTE]
"Now I may not offer her even the barest minimum respect, but I really respect her, honest!"
Yeah, no. Not buying it. Same shit as the people who say they respect homosexuality as long as you aren't "gay" around them.
[QUOTE=Soleeedus;47872705]Except Bell made another post explicitly stating that he respects Jenner.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, no, sorry, Drake's lost me forever.
[Img]http://i.imgur.com/a6z7DnA.png[/img]
I'm with Josh in the realm of the Gamespheres now, where all is tolerant and full of peace and love.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;47866344]Yes cuntbucket is a totally cool and adult thing to say.[/QUOTE]
have you never insulted a person, in particular one who deserves it?
[QUOTE=Rocket;47872433]Just came across [url=http://www.themarysue.com/cailyn-jenner-name/]this great article[/url] that mentions this sort of thing:
Even something like "she looks great" can be bad, depending on how it's used. If someone is worried about how they look, yeah, that's appropriate. But commenting on how much they look like a cisgender woman is really insulting to non-passing trans women, even if it's not offensive to the person you're addressing.
[editline]3rd June 2015[/editline]
Not that you mean it that way, but some people do.[/QUOTE]
Commenting on how much she looks cisgender? How is that insulting when that's her entire goal? It's no more insulting to non passing trans women than it is insulting to ugly cis women. IE Realize that this was a professional photoshoot with light sources and makeup artists most likely so if you are comparing yourself in your bathroom mirror to the photos then you are making a wholely unrealistic comparison.
[editline]3rd June 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Rocket;47872850]Have you ever thought that maybe using gendered insults and being overly rude are two things you shouldn't do? I also don't see how the person deserved it.[/QUOTE]
it was used to illustrate a point that being allowed to call a person anything you feel like is not okay by illustrating through example and was thus being supportive of the idea that calling her Bruce if she doesn't want to be called Bruce is insulting and not an okay thing to do. It did this by using a humorous phrase that isn't an actual insult to do this. Also, "gendered insult"? The fuck?
[QUOTE=Rocket;47872925]Because it puts "looks like a cis woman" as the gold standard for trans women.[/quote]
It is though, considering that's the goal of transitioning in the first place
[quote]
That doesn't make the insult warranted. You might also want to use that internet of yours to look up the term "gendered insult" before you complain about it being used.[/QUOTE]
first, it was used as a demonstrative point in an argument. This warranted it.
second, cuntbucket isn't a gendered insult
you can be a cuntbucket, I can be a cuntbucket, my female classmates can be cuntbuckets. Cunt is a swear that rarely has to do with actual vaginas. But not really because it's a made up fucking insult used to prove the point which YOU ARE SUPPORTING and you seem to be taking personal offense to it.
[QUOTE=Ragekipz;47862177]That's why is so important to beware people who can change what is law abiding.[/QUOTE]
Considering you're the only person here who holds this weird fucked up opinion I don't think we really do right now.
[QUOTE=Ixius;47861350]Yes. Doesn't matter if she has an identical twin who refuses to call her Caitlyn - it's still needlessly insensitive, and very much qualifies as transphobic.[/QUOTE]
Or they have been a male and just came out as being female a few months ago and you still call them by the male name or identify them using male pronouns from habit, it doesn't make you transphobic.
[QUOTE=assassin_Raptor;47873026]Or they have been a male and just came out as being female a few months ago and you still call them by the male name or identify them using male pronouns from habit, it doesn't make you transphobic.[/QUOTE]
Yeah people can slip up. We're only human.
Now if they were constantly doing it on purpose that would be insulting. But if they were Someone e you knew your entire life, then the occasional slipup is excusable
[QUOTE=Tuskin;47873069]Yeah people can slip up. We're only human.[/QUOTE]
That's totally true. Slipping up sometimes after living nearly your entire life with a family member who even themselves thought they were a man until recently? Totally acceptable. You just need to try and change your speech to respect them. It only becomes malicious if you're calling them a man on purpose.
[QUOTE=Rocket;47873060]Not everyone has the ability to look like a cis woman. Saying that the goal of transition is to look perfect is harmful to everyone who can't.
[/quote]
The literal goal, the entire point and reason behind transitioning everything around it, is to look more female so the individual can have their image match their identity. What the fuck is the point of breast implants and plastic surgery except to try to look female? Why bother if your goal isn't to look female? It's upsetting that some aren't successful at transitioning, of course. But one's own physical beauty isn't something that it is healthy to compare to others in the first place, ESPECIALLY not to a fucking celebrity. It's something one has to come to terms with.
[quote]
Clarify please.[/quote]
[QUOTE=lintz;47861375]
[QUOTE=Ragekipz;47861355]
[QUOTE=lintz;47861346]yes. if you don't refer to someone by their chosen name, you are disrespecting them. familial ties give you no more right to disrespect someone than a stranger on the street. this applies not only to family members who are LGBT, but in general.[/QUOTE]
You can call people whatever you want, unless you're directing yourself to person of authority like a federal judge.[/QUOTE]
alright, whatever you say cuntbucket.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("flaming" - UberMensch))[/highlight][/QUOTE]
It was used in this thread to show the implications of being allowed to call a person whatever you personally feel like calling them without consequence. It did this by example. They weren't actually being truly insulting in this instance, but displaying a negative ramification of the point they were refuting.
[quote]
Cuntbucket is as much of a gendered insult as "bitch" is. Both men and women can be bitches, but it's still gendered. Sort of like how men and women can be "pussies" but that's still a gendered insult.[/QUOTE]
See above. In fact, this particular point doesn't actually matter due to the method it was used being sort of a parody anyway, being gendered probably illustrates their point more clearly, as the point wasn't to actually be truly insulting in the first place.
[QUOTE=Rocket;47873148]The goal is not to appeal to the male gaze as much as possible. The goal is to transition to a point where they are comfortable in their own body. But again, some people just don't have the resources to transition.
I don't see how using a gendered insult adds anything to the discussion? Any made up name would make the point exactly as clearly, but yet a gendered insult was chosen.
[editline]3rd June 2015[/editline]
It was deliberately antagonistic anyways, and that's what flaming is.[/QUOTE]
Who mentioned the male gaze? I sure didn't. You're saying things like "looking perfect" and "appealing to the male gaze" that nobody here but you is bringing up. I am saying the ultimate goal of transitioning, if trans women could alter any aspect of their appearance at will, is to look female. That's pretty much the definition of gender dysphoria is that they are uncomfortable with their bodies and they feel their true gender doesn't match their sex. If they want to change their apperance to match their identity to something that isn't female, I don't have a problem with it, but they are probably something different from trans in that case by definition.
Nobody expects them to look like a cisgendered female, it's unfortunate that transwomen can rarely transition that effectively. But comparing yourself to others who are more successful is like me comparing myself to david hasslehoff or my sister comparing herself to Marilyn Monroe. It's unhealthy. Nobody should ever compare themselves to celebrities. Complimenting people on their appearance shouldn't make you feel insulted about your own appearance. If it does, it's something you have to come to terms with because it's an unhealthy way to live.
to the second point whatever I guess so point is I don't feel it deserved a ban when it wasn't meant to actually insult or offend
my fingers are getting tired so i'm stopping here
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