Former GTA producer Leslie Benzies suing Rockstar Games over $150M. - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Loadingue;50123839]If you have any sort of pride for not buying one of this decade's best games, you should rethink what you're doing.[/QUOTE] If you consider GTAV one of the decade's best games then I'd wager you haven't played that many games. Also lmao at the idea of considering the value of enjoyment as higher than that of someone's principles. How disrespectful. Maybe you're the one who should be rethinking things. Spare us the throwing around high and mighty "what's wrong with you" "short sited opinion" "rethink what you're doing" etc bullshit.

[QUOTE=Zang-Pog;50125164]GTA V is far from the best game of this decade, what the hell are you talking about[/QUOTE] The side-effects of drinking that marketting & hype kool-aid.

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;50125883]Oh, no, it has something much, much worse. Microtransactions + Super grindy missions. They use a god damn freemium model in a $60 game. Unacceptable. There's god damn loading screens that say "Don't forget to buy GTA$! (:" I've played my fair share of Gta5, I know first hand how they manage to fuck up what could've been the "greatest game of the decade"[/QUOTE] Don't forget LOCKING cars away in updates and dripfeeding them once 2 weeks in an attempt to pretend to release ~[I]groundbreaking[/I]~ new content. And that's only their most recent fuck up. As the months pass the game gets progressively more bloated with shit nobody likes. GTAO is not good at all.

[QUOTE=Zang-Pog;50125164]GTA V is far from the best game of this decade, what the hell are you talking about[/QUOTE] One of the best, not the best. And I can't take anyone seriously who says "GTA V is okay... barely" because it's an incredible game. An immense playground of variety and detail, tons of story missions that are more fun and epic than most things I've played, memorable characters and soundtrack and fantastic actors, tons of fun and a lot of playtime guaranteed, and more. Now, seriously, tell me that GTA V isn't great. Tell me the 2-year hype, the historical launch, the positive reactions from the international press and the players and all the shared fun I've seen are just something I've dreamed. [QUOTE=DOG-GY;50124885]If you consider GTAV one of the decade's best games then I'd wager you haven't played that many games. Also lmao at the idea of considering the value of enjoyment as higher than that of someone's principles. How disrespectful. Maybe you're the one who should be rethinking things. Spare us the throwing around high and mighty "what's wrong with you" "short sited opinion" "rethink what you're doing" etc bullshit.[/QUOTE] First, I've played many games and I'd say you're just following the hate band-wagon. Second, what are you talking about, personal principles? What are you on about? That guy said he was proud of not buying it, I'm just saying he's wrong to think it's not worth a buy, or that it even matters if you don't buy it. You're just doing yourself a disservice and pretend you're right. Also notice how you sound just as high and mighty in your last sentence, trying to pull it on me. [QUOTE=RenegadeCop;50125883]Oh, no, it has something much, much worse. Microtransactions + Super grindy missions. They use a god damn freemium model in a $60 game. Unacceptable. There's god damn loading screens that say "Don't forget to buy GTA$! (:" I've played my fair share of Gta5, I know first hand how they manage to fuck up what could've been the "greatest game of the decade"[/QUOTE] But that's just the multiplayer, and no one has to buy them. I know, then it turns into a grindfest, I don't like it either and I don't play Online. But I still love the whole single-player thing, I think it alone makes GTA V amazing.

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;50126251]"no one has to buy them" I ab-so-lutely hate that saying with a passion. It doesn't matter because [B]it still impacts the game.[/B] They don't make missions for fun, they make them balanced around "Hey we still have to sell shark cards..." The first thought for ANY content is "how can we sell shark cards." And just because you don't play multiplayer doesn't make it not shit. It is a HUGE part of GTA5 whether you choose to ignore it or not.[/QUOTE] Okay, I agree. It was a bad argument; it's there, it matters. But what I really meant is that they're just a helper, you genuinely don't need to buy them. I've heard that practically no one does anyway. And to your last sentence, I'd like to remind you and everyone the same that the multiplayer being shit doesn't make the whole game shit. How much it does depends on what you expect from MP; if you don't care about SP and the Shark Cards or grinding really bother you, your complaints are valid.

[QUOTE=Loadingue;50126124]First, I've played many games and I'd say you're just following the hate band-wagon.[/QUOTE] I'm too old to care about bandwagons. [QUOTE=Loadingue;50126124]Second, what are you talking about, personal principles? What are you on about? That guy said he was proud of not buying it, I'm just saying he's wrong to think it's not worth a buy, or that it even matters if you don't buy it. You're just doing yourself a disservice and pretend you're right.[/QUOTE] Yes I'm talking about personal principles. The personal principles of the person you told who didn't say they were proud of, but believed that they made the morally right decision in not supporting a corrupt company, that they should rethink their stance because you assert GTAV is a great game. I feel like I'm just repeating myself with this. [QUOTE=Loadingue;50126124]Also notice how you sound just as high and mighty in your last sentence, trying to pull it on me.[/QUOTE] Because I suggest you rethink statements like "What is wrong with you?" "What an amazing short-sighted opinion." (In reference to someone's thoughts on corporate greed no less) and "you should rethink what you're doing." *dismantles my very tall horse* If you think it's high and mighty of me to tell you you're being rude, and you are, then I hope you don't try to interact with people in person like this. You'd get called out so quickly it'd make your head spin.

[QUOTE=DOG-GY;50126298]Yes I'm talking about personal principles. The personal principles of the person you told who didn't say they were proud of, but believed that they made the morally right decision in not supporting a corrupt company, that they should rethink their stance because you assert GTAV is a great game. I feel like I'm just repeating myself with this.[/QUOTE] You are giving that person too much credit. They did not buy the game, company that makes the game starts doing shady shit, okay not buying it, that's fine. I see their point, I'm just saying it's not a bad game and eventually they might wanna reconsider. That's it. [QUOTE=DOG-GY;50126298]Because I suggest you rethink statements like "What is wrong with you?" "What an amazing short-sighted opinion." (In reference to someone's thoughts on corporate greed no less) and "you should rethink what you're doing." *dismantles my very tall horse* If you think it's high and mighty of me to tell you you're being rude, and you are, then I hope you don't try to interact with people in person like this. You'd get called out so quickly it'd make your head spin.[/QUOTE] I don't want to be rude, I only try to make you guys realize about the stupidity you're saying sometimes (I don't mean you right now, but before if you said something stupid). It's something I see more and more on Facepunch, hate bandwagons. Be it Valve (which has done a lot of fuck-ups recently but don't deserve half the hate they get here nowadays), PCGN (who very obviously got shat on at every single opportunity, even the slightest thing), or Rockstar (I mostly blame Take-Two for all this, not Rockstar). So please excuse me if I sound rude, it just doesn't seem important when everyone is telling some company to "fucking die" and how they're a bunch of retards making shit games, ruining the game industry and accelerating global warming.

[QUOTE=Loadingue;50126124]One of the best, not the best. And I can't take anyone seriously who says "GTA V is okay... barely" because it's an incredible game. An immense playground of variety and detail, tons of story missions that are more fun and epic than most things I've played, memorable characters and soundtrack and fantastic actors, tons of fun and a lot of playtime guaranteed, and more. Now, seriously, tell me that GTA V isn't great. Tell me the 2-year hype, the historical launch, the positive reactions from the international press and the players and all the shared fun I've seen are just something I've dreamed. First, I've played many games and I'd say you're just following the hate band-wagon. Second, what are you talking about, personal principles? What are you on about? That guy said he was proud of not buying it, I'm just saying he's wrong to think it's not worth a buy, or that it even matters if you don't buy it. You're just doing yourself a disservice and pretend you're right. Also notice how you sound just as high and mighty in your last sentence, trying to pull it on me. But that's just the multiplayer, and no one has to buy them. I know, then it turns into a grindfest, I don't like it either and I don't play Online. But I still love the whole single-player thing, I think it alone makes GTA V amazing.[/QUOTE] Considering you're the guy who said the local water fluoridation was making you "angry all the time" maybe you should consider that your own opinion is just that and only that, and if someone does not like the game and has provided salient reasons why, that's not really something you can attack without looking like a retard. I haven't bought a R* game in years for precisely the reason this thread started. The company has a rather long history of treating its employees badly, and your personal wonts have jack shit to with that, and they won't have any bearing on it the future. "I like this game" will never be a reason to negate another's opinion that has no bearing on the core functions and features of their software product. [quote] bandwagon [/quote] It wasn't a "bandwagon" until it opposed something you are positive about, and calling it a bandwagon versus clearly predatory behavior on the part of both the developer AND publisher is a hilariously histrionic. If you can name another company that has sent agents to a person's house to intimidate them personally, I'd like to hear it and your rationalizations why it's a net positive.

[QUOTE=27X;50126557]Considering you're the guy who said the local water fluoridation was making you "angry all the time" maybe you should consider that your own opinion is just that and only that, and if someone does not like the game and has provided salient reasons why, that's not really something you can attack without looking like a retard.[/QUOTE] What the fuck?... You're confusing me with someone else, for the [I]second[/I] time, about that water thing. And it's okay not to like the game. It's perfectly okay, didn't want to imply anything else. [QUOTE=27X;50126557]It wasn't a "bandwagon" until it opposed something you are positive about, and calling it a bandwagon versus clearly predatory behavior on the part of both the developer AND publisher is a hilariously histrionic. If you can name another company that has sent agents to a person's house to intimidate them personally, I'd like to hear it and your rationalizations why it's a net positive.[/QUOTE] You are clearly implying a lot of things I don't mean. Take-Two is bad, I hate what they've done. Rockstar, they've also done some shady stuff, but the amount of responsibility is not clear. Now when I see almost the whole of Facepunch saying GTA V is utter shit, that's an amalgam I can't really tolerate. [QUOTE=Zang-Pog;50126581]I get it that you like the game, but have you ever stopped to think about the game objectively without your hype getting in the way. GTA has always been a big series and for GTA V a lot of money was poured into advertising and into the huge hypemachine you've obviously bought into as well. I'm not saying it's a bad game, but compared to the earlier games in the series it's literally more the same with a fancier coat of paint on top of it. That added with all the terrible decisions about the games multiplayer and other scummy things that have happened surrounding the game and R* itself have left such a sour taste in my mouth I couldn't recommend their products to anybody, even the games I've enjoyed a lot in the past myself.[/QUOTE] Interesting take but it doesn't entirely hold up in my eyes. I can't disagree with what you say about the Multiplayer and Rockstar, but GTA V genuinely is above the older games in the series in many aspects. More activities, more polished, and of course the best visuals. It's hard to compare with a masterpiece like GTA San Andreas, but compared with GTA Vice City or GTA IV, it's clearly the best.

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;50126251]"no one has to buy them" I ab-so-lutely hate that saying with a passion. It doesn't matter because [B]it still impacts the game.[/B] They don't make missions for fun, they make them balanced around "Hey we still have to sell shark cards..." The first thought for ANY content is "how can we sell shark cards." And just because you don't play multiplayer doesn't make it not shit. It is a HUGE part of GTA5 whether you choose to ignore it or not.[/QUOTE] Yep, shark cards are a problem for two reasons. As you said, it makes the online focused around the shark cards, and it made fleshing out single player low priority, and it shows. Most of the content in GTA V is in online, but it's scorched by that "shark card balance". Not to mention, some people just straight up prefer solo play, and they're kinda left behind.

You haven't even seen the kind of whole of Facepunch saying anything like that. There's tens of thousands of people posting in this thread or adding stars? Nope. There were probably a hundred people MAX complaining about SC in the thread itself and less in the SH equivalent when the game was updated, how that equates to a "hive mind" is a mystery only you can solve. [quote] the best [/quote] According to ->you<-. Perhaps you need to provide objective verification to those reasons that doesn't involve "it made muches dollars", because according to that metric Avatar would unilaterally be the greatest movie of all time in every category, and it's apparently isn't even on a great many people's top ten list. [quote] implying [/quote] I ain't implying shit, I'm rather directly stating your "objective" reasoning and defense isn't even a [I]type[/I] of objectivity, and based on post history you may not even know what the word objective means. Protip: It's not "I like this game, so any criticisms about it's making or implementation are totally null and void". If you bother to scroll back up and actually read and contemplate the words spelled out before hitting the reply button, you might see people are not complaining about base mechanics or player goal paradigms, people are complaining about predatory consumer practices, directly anti-community actions and the work ethic issues employees are subjected to.

[QUOTE=27X;50126740]You haven't even seen the kind of whole of Facepunch saying anything like that. There's tens of thousands of people posting in this thread or adding stars? Nope. There were probably a hundred people MAX complaining about SC in the thread itself and less in the SH equivalent when the game was updated, how that equates to a "hive mind" is a mystery only you can solve.[/QUOTE] Didn't even talk about a hive mind, you gotta stop with all that implying. Also the "silent majority" argument doesn't work well on forums, but okay. [QUOTE=27X;50126740]According to ->you<-. Perhaps you need to provide objective verification to those reasons that doesn't involve "it made muches dollars", because according to that metric Avatar would unilaterally be the greatest movie of all time in every category, and it's apparently isn't even on a great many people's top ten list.[/QUOTE] What? Since when do I need to tell people why GTA V is great? Surely you must have heard something for the past 2 years. For one, go ask people in the GTA thread. If not, you may refer to any website of your convenience which will surely explain why GTA V is one of the best games of these last years. [QUOTE=27X;50126740]I ain't implying shit, I'm rather directly stating your "objective" reasoning and defense isn't even a [I]type[/I] of objectivity, and based on post history you may not even know what the word objective means. Protip: It's not "I like this game, so any criticisms about it's making or implementation are totally null and void". If you bother to scroll back up and actually read and contemplate the words spelled out before hitting the reply button, you might see people are not complaining about base mechanics or player goal paradigms, people are complaining about predatory consumer practices, directly anti-community actions and the work ethic issues employees are subjected to.[/QUOTE] I repeat, it's okay not to like the game. I repeat, it's okay not to like the game. It's the reasons why which I may disagree with, if they're invalid. The ones you just mentioned are valid, but mostly out-of-game-related, which makes them less valid for criticizing the game itself. But people should direct their complaints to Take-Two, certainly not the game itself. That's all I meant from the beginning.

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;50125883]They use a god damn freemium model in a $60 game. Unacceptable. There's god damn loading screens that say "Don't forget to buy GTA$! (:"[/QUOTE] That [I]AND [/I]their nazi-like stance on MP modding fills me with bitterness and regret. I could deal with one of them, but both totalitarian stance on third-parties making multiplayer actually fun [I]AND [/I]the shark-card shit at the same time is just superbad. [editline]editline[/editline] Not to mention, the cars handle like shit compared to 4 (IMO).

@Loadingue, why do you even keep bringing Take-Two up when this topic centers around [B]Rockstar North[/B] and it's borderline abysmal work environment.

[QUOTE=Dauge;50126906]Why do you even keep bringing Take-Two up when this topic centers around [B]Rockstar North[/B].[/QUOTE] You say A then you gotta say B, since Take-Two has Rockstar as a whole by the balls with a tight, firm & cold grip.

[QUOTE=Dauge;50126906]@Loadingue, why do you even keep bringing Take-Two up when this topic centers around [B]Rockstar North[/B] and it's borderline abysmal work environment.[/QUOTE] Because people here are mostly mad about GTA V because of Take-Two.

[QUOTE=proch;50118857]It's a shame that such talent is subject to that amount of exec. meddling. I wish someone made a worthy GTA clone already.[/QUOTE] I feel like the guys at Volition are talented enough, but they're too busy trying to shift their focus to overdone over-the-top stuff as opposed to the more realistic approach 1 and 2 took. Give me Saints Row 3's gameplay with a story and content more in line with 2's and I'll say "fuck GTA" without hesitation.

I would much rather have GTA be developed by someone that's not in it for the money, the days of GTA:VC and GTA:SA showed how amazingly the series had developed from just the old top-down days of GTA 1 and 2, but eh.. not so much between GTA IV and GTA V.

[QUOTE=gk99;50128568]I feel like the guys at Volition are talented enough, but they're too busy trying to shift their focus to overdone over-the-top stuff as opposed to the more realistic approach 1 and 2 took. Give me Saints Row 3's gameplay with a story and content more in line with 2's and I'll say "fuck GTA" without hesitation.[/QUOTE] They are, last I checked. The only reason why 4 ended up being over the top was because they had to finish what they started when THQ existed. Now that that's done, the next Saints Row game is supposed to have a more serious story.

So basically, keep an eye out and see if Benz forms a new studio at some point, or joins a reputable one. If this guy was essentially the reason as to why GTA and RDR have been so good (not talking about the controversial aspects of GTA:Online), then I can only imagine what he could do with some actual freedom. It's almost as if Benz is to Rockstar as Kojima was to Konami.

Just listened to the Giant Beastcast, and apparently the split between the House brothers and The Benz happened because Benz was pushing GTA:O as an important thing while the House brothers were against it. Now that I'm thinking about it, that is super scathing- sure, they're making a fuckton of money, but its not because of the huge amounts of satirical writing that the House brothers (and gta in general) are experts of. Nope, the reason GTAV is still in the public eye is because the programmer of the group saw where the market was heading, and developed for that. No wonder they want him out.

[QUOTE=Magikoopa24;50134551]Just listened to the Giant Beastcast, and apparently the split between the House brothers and The Benz happened because Benz was pushing GTA:O as an important thing while the House brothers were against it. Now that I'm thinking about it, that is super scathing- sure, they're making a fuckton of money, but its not because of the huge amounts of satirical writing that the House brothers (and gta in general) are experts of. Nope, the reason GTAV is still in the public eye is because the programmer of the group saw where the market was heading, and developed for that. No wonder they want him out.[/QUOTE] The Houser Bros hated the idea of GTA:O, but as soon as the money poured in (read: money tsunami) they were happy enough to kick him out and keep his wage/bonus/shares. "Mate, your idea sucks but it did make us ungodly rich sooo fuck you Benz"

[QUOTE=Magikoopa24;50134551]Just listened to the Giant Beastcast, and apparently the split between the House brothers and The Benz happened because Benz was pushing GTA:O as an important thing while the House brothers were against it. Now that I'm thinking about it, that is super scathing- sure, they're making a fuckton of money, but its not because of the huge amounts of satirical writing that the House brothers (and gta in general) are experts of. Nope, the reason GTAV is still in the public eye is because the programmer of the group saw where the market was heading, and developed for that. No wonder they want him out.[/QUOTE] So... was it Benz Idea to balance the whole game around shark cards, or did he just implement them?

It doesn't matter whether or not Benz thought GTAO was good or if the Housers were against it. They profited off of the idea and kicked him out soon after and took what should've been his money.

[QUOTE=OmniConsUme;50136726]So... was it Benz Idea to balance the whole game around shark cards, or did he just implement them?[/QUOTE] The cards were probably planned from the beginning, but the way they were used in practice were probably T2's doing. [QUOTE=SonicHitman;50136934]It doesn't matter whether or not Benz thought GTAO was good or if the Housers were against it. They profited off of the idea and kicked him out soon after and took what should've been his money.[/QUOTE] Of course, I wasn't arguing that it mattered- I just found it an ironic little thing to note that wasn't mentioned previously.