Venezuela Doesn't Have Enough Money to Pay for Its Money - Polidicks

[QUOTE=mr kjerr;50216056]china has open and free markets. very few things are state run barring the media, and thats used a propaganda tool.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=TornadoAP;50216071]Yeah, I guess you could say that. I guess it really depends on where you are in China because there are those special zones where capitalism reigns free and not to mention Hong Kong and Macau are pretty capitalist.[/QUOTE] China is state capitalism. [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50216070]No one claimed they were. His problem, and one that many people like him have, is the complete inability to separate the words "Socialism" from the word "Democracy" and the resulting argument is a piece of trite based around incorrect preconceptions of "Socialism".[/QUOTE] When most people think "socialist" they mean strong social programs, the Scandinavian countries being the most pointed to examples.

[QUOTE=mr kjerr;50216065]look at the data, then come back to me. thanks[/QUOTE] We did and you're wrong.

[QUOTE=mr kjerr;50216056]china has open and free markets. very few things are state run barring the media, and thats used a propaganda tool.[/QUOTE] Almost every company in China is either state owned, backed, funded, or founded

[QUOTE=Reshy;50216103]China is state capitalism. When most people think "socialist" they mean strong social programs, the Scandinavian countries being the most pointed to examples.[/QUOTE] "state capitalism" is a term invented used by those who don't want to point out the real world example failures of communist societies. i suppose the soviet union was also state capitalism?

[QUOTE=mr kjerr;50215999]state takeover and intervention (socialism!) in the markets is what has caused venezuelas downward spiral. heres a great article about it: [url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/01/21/venezuela-should-be-rich-but-its-government-has-destroyed-its-economy/[/url][/QUOTE] The blame isn't solely on socialism itself, it's the fact that they took over and mismanaged the fuck out of the economy. And while I agree that an entire government takeover [I]can [/I]fuck up an economy, it doesn't mean that any kind of socialism will

[QUOTE=mr kjerr;50216095]sure, i'll bite! [url]http://i.imgur.com/OooHrkA.png[/url] [editline]28th April 2016[/editline] [url]http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2012-06-06/booming-sweden-s-free-market-solution[/url][/QUOTE] What does that first one [B]actually[/B] prove? I know what you THINK it proves, but what does it actually show?

[QUOTE=Sableye;50216108]Almost every company in China is either state owned, backed, funded, or founded[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2010/07/how_communist_is_china.html[/url]

[QUOTE=mr kjerr;50216109]"state capitalism" is a term invented used by those who don't want to point out the real world example failures of communist societies. i suppose the soviet union was also state capitalism?[/QUOTE] This is a pure false dichotomy that you will reject and insist is the only way that the universe works. You are, unfortunately, not correct.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50216113]What does that first one [B]actually[/B] prove? I know what you THINK it proves, but what does it actually show?[/QUOTE] what do you mean? he was asking me to prove that socialist countries were corrupt, so i went by the index he was using to show him that socialist countries were high on the corruption index.

[QUOTE=mr kjerr;50216116][url]http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2010/07/how_communist_is_china.html[/url][/QUOTE] [QUOTE]That said, the Chinese government still controls major aspects of the economy and society. For example, just about every Chinese bank is state-owned, so the government decides which businesses and individuals will get the most favorable loans.[/QUOTE]

capitalist countries have been in similar situations, do we blame it on capitalism?

[QUOTE=ScottyWired;50216126][/QUOTE] the banks being state owned does not a socialist economy make. is private business legal? is it taxed out the ass?

[QUOTE=mr kjerr;50216095]sure, i'll bite! [url]http://i.imgur.com/OooHrkA.png[/url][/quote] I too think that a screenshot of a graph on wikipedia is a valid citation.

[QUOTE=mr kjerr;50216120]what do you mean? he was asking me to prove that socialist countries were corrupt, so i went by the index he was using to show him that socialist countries were high on the corruption index.[/QUOTE] How is that showing that though that's literally a "Low hanging fruit" type argument. If you use failed states that failed due to reasons [B]far[/B] more complicated than your simple accusations of [I]socialism[/I] to prove that socialism is super corrupt, you're [B]not[/B] actually demonstrating that. What you're demonstrating is your own ignorance in relation to those nations struggles by simply boiling it down to scurry, scurry [I]socialism[/I]

[QUOTE=Kyle902;50216132]I too think that a screenshot of a graph on wikipedia is a valid citation.[/QUOTE] again, using the index that [I]he previously used[/I] to argue against his point.

[QUOTE=mr kjerr;50216135]again, using the index that [I]he previously used[/I] to argue against his point.[/QUOTE] "HEY STOP CALLING MY CHERRY PICKING CHERRY PICKING"

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50216134]How is that showing that though that's literally a "Low hanging fruit" type argument. If you use failed states that failed due to reasons [B]far[/B] more complicated than your simple accusations of [I]socialism[/I] to prove that socialism is super corrupt, you're [B]not[/B] actually demonstrating that. What you're demonstrating is your own ignorance in relation to those nations struggles by simply boiling it down to scurry, scurry [I]socialism[/I][/QUOTE] so do you think that without the initial spark of a marxist revolution that these countries would have ended up in their same situations?

[QUOTE=mr kjerr;50216135]again, using the index that [I]he previously used[/I] to argue against his point.[/QUOTE] Id be saying the same thing if I was arguing against him too.

[QUOTE=mr kjerr;50216140]so do you think that without the initial spark of a marxist revolution that these countries would have ended up in their same situations?[/QUOTE] Knowing history? Probably. Any economic system can be run into the ground.

[QUOTE=mr kjerr;50216095]sure, i'll bite! [url]http://i.imgur.com/OooHrkA.png[/url][/QUOTE] First of all about half those countries are or were communist, a very very very fucking different thing from socialism. Second of all, just because a handful of countries that employ socialism are failing states doesn't mean that socialism is an ideology destined for failure. To counter that exactly, the top 3 nations on the corruption index are all socialist. In relation to my first point, I hope this can clear some things up for you. [video=youtube;U-1k_MDB4J8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-1k_MDB4J8[/video]

[QUOTE=Reshy;50216146]Knowing history? Probably. Any economic system can be run into the ground.[/QUOTE] awesome. show me a capitalist country that was run into the ground exclusively by the free market and without government intervention [editline]28th April 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=TornadoAP;50216148]First of all about half those countries are or were communist, a very very very fucking different thing from socialism. Second of all, just because a handful of countries that employ socialism are failing states doesn't mean that socialism is an ideology destined for failure. To counter that exactly, the top 3 nations on the corruption index [B]are all socialist.[/B] In relation to my first point, I hope this can clear some things up for you. [video=youtube;U-1k_MDB4J8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-1k_MDB4J8[/video][/QUOTE] welfare states after a long period of open and free markets you mean

[QUOTE=mr kjerr;50216140]so do you think that without the initial spark of a marxist revolution that these countries would have ended up in their same situations?[/QUOTE] Yes. Do you really think capitalism is the "End all be all" of methods to crush corruption?

[QUOTE=mr kjerr;50216131]the banks being state owned does not a socialist economy make. is private business legal? is it taxed out the ass?[/QUOTE] Private business is legal, but you won't be receiving any help from the banks. And if you want a business to get big you'll need stuff like permits and other government paperwork. Good luck with that if you don't have any contacts in the ruling body.

[QUOTE=mr kjerr;50216149]awesome. show me a capitalist country that was run into the ground exclusively by the free market and without government intervention [/QUOTE] You would fail to show that a society had been destroyed solely by socialism or communism but demand it of us? [B]put up or shut up[/B]

[QUOTE=mr kjerr;50216140]so do you think that without the initial spark of a marxist revolution that these countries would have ended up in their same situations?[/QUOTE] This reply addresses literally nothing in the quoted post. Why dont you refute peoples arguments instead of deflecting them.

[QUOTE=mr kjerr;50216149]awesome. show me a capitalist country that was run into the ground exclusively by the free market and without government intervention [editline]28th April 2016[/editline] welfare states after a long period of open and free markets you mean[/QUOTE] every state in europe pre WW2, nigeria, south africa, pretty much most of the capitalist african countries, brazil, ukraine.... ya the list goes on

[QUOTE=mr kjerr;50216149]awesome. show me a capitalist country that was run into the ground exclusively by the free market and without government interventionn[/QUOTE] Government intervention happens [I]because[/I] the country is running into the ground. Intervening in the economy controls damage, not causes it.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50216160]You would fail to show that a society had been destroyed solely by socialism or communism but demand it of us? [B]put up or shut up[/B][/QUOTE] sure can! venezuela, the soviet union, maoist china, eastern germany, and yugoslavian nations. shall i list more?

[QUOTE=mr kjerr;50216170]sure can! venezuela, the soviet union, maoist china, eastern germany, and yugoslavian nations. shall i list more?[/QUOTE] So those nations all fell apart [B]purely[/B] because of it prove it

This is the cringiest thread I've seen, can a mod please lock this shit show.