Florida Legislation Requires Drug Tests for Welfare Benefits - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Canesfan;30272964]Are you really suggesting that there are literally no people that spend welfare money on drugs?[/QUOTE] no i'm wondering whether this bill is based in ideology instead of facts [QUOTE=Canesfan;30272964] The amount of people who aren't seeking help because of the "stigma" is probably far from significant. [/QUOTE] when a government places harsh penalties for drug use you can make sure there will be a significant stigma because it keeps things underground. [editline]5th June 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Kopimi;30273021]i'm kind of working on the assumption that there are precautions in place to make sure the tests are accurate[/QUOTE] if it's a urine test then there are no precautions it's just pass or fail

[QUOTE=Canesfan;30272964] Obviously that's an extreme example but ultimately it comes down to a personal view, and I personally don't like the idea of addictive, dangerous drugs being legal, let alone acceptable behavior.[/QUOTE] When used responsibly most drugs pose little if any threat to people other than the person who is using the substance. Excluding problems which occur in the acquisition of the substances.

[QUOTE=thisispain;30273059]no i'm wondering whether this bill is based in ideology instead of facts [/QUOTE] If they are going to be accepting thousands of dollars in taxpayer money, the least they can do is take a small drug test.

[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;30273015]That's a very rare occurrence. And even if they are, they should have no problem explaining exactly what type of medication they just used, or have some type of proof to show they did indeed take medication from their doctor.[/QUOTE] my point is that this legislation seems to hardly have any basis in reality and it's only reinforcing an obviously failed war on drugs

Even if the drug addicts spend all their welfare money on drugs it's still a lot better than if they had to resort to criminality to get their money. Which is worst for you, a fraction of a cent added to your tax, or your car being stolen by a drug addict? No, state-funded drug rehabilitation is the way to go, along with a decriminalisation of drugs, as this will be a lot cheaper on your tax if you didn't have to spend all those money on the people being in jail for drug-related crimes.

[url]http://www.eric.ed.gov/PDFS/ED463392.pdf[/url] thought this might be interesting i've not read it all but it opens with the fact that 20% of welfare users reported using an illicit drug during the year

[QUOTE=Biotoxsin;30273025]I. He's asking for statistical evidence stating that a reasonable portion of welfare money is spent on drugs. II. See Portugal article I posted above. III. People are afraid to come out in the open about their substance abuse problems, and if you feel as though you might relapse you're going to realize that theres an increased likelihood of being detained if more people know about it.[/QUOTE] If there isn't a lot of welfare money being spent on drugs, then i'll be pleasantly surprised, and this legislation won't hurt anyone. If there is, then there's money saved. I read the article, and it's impressive and the results are obviously great, but it still comes down to what I said about not wanting a society with that kind of behavior not being discouraged by law. You don't have to come out in the open in a lot of cases. It's not difficult to get help anonymously, you're not going to get arrested when you walk into a rehab center. If you're going to relapse you go back to the rehab center, even if more people do know about it.

[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;30273076]If they are going to be accepting thousands of dollars in taxpayer money, the least they can do is take a small drug test.[/QUOTE] lol welfare doesn't pay out that much in the us if this was britain then i'd see your point because you could survive on the dole but in the US you cannot live on welfare alone

[QUOTE=thisispain;30273059]no i'm wondering whether this bill is based in ideology instead of facts when a government places harsh penalties for drug use you can make sure there will be a significant stigma because it keeps things underground. [editline]5th June 2011[/editline] if it's a urine test then there are no precautions it's just pass or fail[/QUOTE] I. I agree, the fact that this politician owns a drug testing firm and would financially benefit from this bill is absurd. III. If you eat poppy seeds before a test that is looking for opiates you'll fail.

[QUOTE=Biotoxsin;30273075]When used responsibly most drugs pose little if any threat to people other than the person who is using the substance. Excluding problems which occur in the acquisition of the substances.[/QUOTE] After witnessing what heroin did to my uncle, I'd have to disagree with your statement. He was normally a great person, but the drugs made him reckless and violent.

[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;30273146]After witnessing what heroin did to my uncle, I'd have to disagree with your statement. He was normally a great person, but the drugs made him reckless and violent.[/QUOTE] that's why he said most drugs if you take PCP then of course you'd be likely to fuck people up but most people's illicit drug of choice is cannabis and most people imprisoned are imprisoned for cannabis

[QUOTE=Canesfan;30273104]If there isn't a lot of welfare money being spent on drugs, then i'll be pleasantly surprised, and this legislation won't hurt anyone. If there is, then there's money saved. I read the article, and it's impressive and the results are obviously great, but it still comes down to what I said about not wanting a society with that kind of behavior not being discouraged by law. You don't have to come out in the open in a lot of cases. It's not difficult to get help anonymously, you're not going to get arrested when you walk into a rehab center. If you're going to relapse you go back to the rehab center, even if more people do know about it.[/QUOTE] I. Money wouldn't be saved, money would be handed over to the drug firm owners who sponsored this bill in the first place. As is the clear intention of this bill. II. Personal opinions shouldn't get in the way of other peoples liberties. I understand you might not want it from society, but thats how the world is. It's impossible to get rid of it, so theres not much of a point in wasting assets which otherwise might be serve to better the people. Sorry if I'm not being clear in typing things, I haven't slept since 6 AM yesterday and it's 10 PM.

[QUOTE=thisispain;30273161]that's why he said most drugs if you take PCP then of course you'd be likely to fuck people up but most people's illicit drug of choice is cannabis and most people imprisoned are imprisoned for cannabis[/QUOTE] True, but it still doesn't make it right for a person to spend taxpayer money on drugs.

[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;30273189]True, but it still doesn't make it right for a person to spend taxpayer money on cannabis.[/QUOTE] why so? because it's a drug? so is sugar or coffee. how much will government start to interfere in welfare benefit-receiving people's businesses before it's too much? i'd like conservatives to have a bit of consistency when it comes to their policies

[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;30273146]After witnessing what heroin did to my uncle, I'd have to disagree with your statement. He was normally a great person, but the drugs made him reckless and violent.[/QUOTE] I'm not really sure if heroin can be used responsibly, at least not as it's found on the street. I'm referring mostly as thisispain said to recreational drugs like cannabis, mitragyna speciosa (kratom), piper methysticum (kava), etc.

[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;30273189]True, but it still doesn't make it right for a person to spend taxpayer money on drugs.[/QUOTE] I want my tax dollars going towards bombing brown people only

the Governor owns a Medical company that does stuff like this you now realize why he's doing this

[QUOTE=thisispain;30273216]why so? because it's a drug? so is sugar or coffee. how much will government start to interfere in welfare benefit-receiving people's businesses before it's too much? i'd like conservatives to have a bit of consistency when it comes to their policies[/QUOTE] That's not a very good argument. Coffee isn't illegal.

[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;30273259]That's not a very good argument. Coffee isn't illegal.[/QUOTE] Legality doesn't make something right or wrong. Alcohol is one of the most destructive and dangerous drugs that can be abused, yet it's illegal.

[QUOTE=JDK721;30273237]I want my tax dollars going towards bombing brown people only[/QUOTE] Feeling sassy today, aren't we?

[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;30273189]True, but it still doesn't make it right for a person to spend taxpayer money on drugs.[/QUOTE] Okay we'll let them stick to wasting our tax-payer dollars on drug enforcement

[QUOTE=Biotoxsin;30273329]Okay we'll let them stick to wasting our tax-payer dollars on drug enforcement[/QUOTE] Look, If someone is going to collect money from the government, they'd better need it and use it efficiently. I don't think it's fair for the working class to support an unemployed stranger with a drug habit. It doesn't seem right to me.

[QUOTE=Biotoxsin;30273329]Okay we'll let them stick to wasting our tax-payer dollars on drug enforcement[/QUOTE] yes, all drug users are bad and belong in jail didn't officer friendly tell you?

[QUOTE=Canesfan;30272964]Obviously that's an extreme example but ultimately it comes down to a personal view, and I personally don't like the idea of addictive, dangerous drugs being legal, let alone acceptable behavior.[/QUOTE] Cigarettes? Alcohol? Your own personal morality on drugs should not be written in law. [editline]5th June 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Boba_Fett;30273189]True, but it still doesn't make it right for a person to spend taxpayer money on drugs.[/QUOTE] It's not right for the government to be spending my taxpayer dollars on a ridiculous prohibition that demonizes drugs either.

[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;30273259]That's not a very good argument. Coffee isn't illegal.[/QUOTE] He's ~*hardcore*~ u got to legalize it man

[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;30273362]Look, If someone is going to collect money from the government, they'd better need it and use it efficiently. I don't think it's fair for the working class to support an unemployed stranger with a drug habit. It doesn't seem right to me.[/QUOTE] Believe me, the drug regulation system that's currently in place is anything but efficient. It's a war that can't be won. Read up on how clever the cartels are with transportation. They make things like disposable kevlar submarines. As I said before, either the public supports that unemployed stranger or he'll end up homeless committing 'real crimes' and doing more damage than would be saved by taking away his financial aid. [QUOTE=SgtCr4zyAlt;30273397] Your own personal morality on drugs should not be written in law. [/QUOTE] "The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins." - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Focus more on fixing the problem through education and help rather than demonizing people and withholding welfare. Same thing goes for the cutting welfare for obese people nonsense. Or food stamps. Whatever it was.

i'd much rather hear about bills establishing good rehab programs than this bill

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyAlt;30273397]It's not right for the government to be spending my taxpayer dollars on a ridiculous prohibition that demonizes drugs either.[/QUOTE] I think this issue is less about winning the "War on Drugs" and more about regulating welfare, which has grown from providing only for those who are in dire need of aid to a system where any unemployed person can walk in and obtain free money and other assets from the government and spend it on things that aren't exactly necessary to survive.

[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;30273499]I think this issue is less about winning the "War on Drugs" and more about regulating welfare, which has grown from providing only for those who are in dire need of aid to a system where any unemployed person can walk in and obtain free money and other assets from the government and spend it on things that aren't exactly necessary to survive.[/QUOTE] uhh, you have to qualify for welfare. not just any unemployed person can get it. and what kind of things are they buying? god forbid they have any type of entertainment