You can swap a Tesla battery faster than you can fill a tank of gas.
132 replies, posted
[QUOTE=OvB;41117968]Not yet.
[editline]20th June 2013[/editline]
I would assume Tesla would manufacture the newer batteries to be backwards comparable with older cars. Or upgrade older cars to accept newer batteries. Tesla customers get full service. They'll make it work out.[/QUOTE]
If they're backwards compatible that would mean they would have to be the same size as the old battery, thus stunting advancement in car designs. If the battery was smaller, you would be able to shrink the battery bay and put even more things into the car, or just make it lighter and more efficient.
Upgrading every old electric car to the new standard is a pretty big inconvenience for consumers. They would have to give up their mode of transportation for however long it will take to have their vehicle upgraded. It would also be extremely expensive. Whether Tesla would pass that price down to the consumer is to be seen, but I imagine they will have a hard time making a profit if they upgraded their vehicles for free.
Like I said, this idea where you swap out batteries is a neat idea, and a way for electric vehicles to charge up fast, but it has a lot of downsides and will not attract the average consumer. I say the average consumer because if you want any change in pollution, you're going to have to sell this to more than a few thousand enthusiasts.
[QUOTE=FordLord;41117621]Considering you save tons of money buying a gas powered car, its not exactly ridiculous.
For instance, my car;
1999 Subaru Impreza.
Paid ~5000 back in '05.
We've put 100k miles or so on it since then, and it gets 30mpg or so.
After around 7 years of ownership, including the original cost, gas, maintenance, and upgrades, theres been around 20k USD spent on the car.
Compared to the cost of buying a Tesla, maintenance, etc. It ends up not being so bad paying for gas, when after 7 years ive only spent.. what, less than 1/3 the cost of a Tesla Model S?[/QUOTE]
Well this post shouldn't have been a surprise from someone called "FordLord" really.
But, how is that car sustainable? Petrol/ diesel aren't infinite resources, we can't exactly generate it en-masse without depleting something else right now. So how is that sustainable? Which is the point of the electric car, we can generate electricity in numerous ways, much more sustainable than burning fossil fuels, leaving the car itself to be more sustainable.
Just because it's expensive now doesn't mean it's worthless. Look at computers. They were hellishly expensive, now they run everything.
[QUOTE=evilweazel;41116324]I feel like I'll end up sticking with my gas guzzlers to the bitter end, honestly. Seems like my car will still be simpler and more practical for me to drive around compared to an electric car. Even if electric cars still end up surpassing traditional cars in all aspects, I'd still drive my cars around. Theres's more character to them, I suppose, and that's enough for me :v:[/QUOTE]
As a car enthusiast, I'd use Tesla for a daily driver and a petrol engine 6-speed Manual car for fun.
I don't care what you say, going to the circuit and constantly changing gears and listening to the glorious sound is more fun than just holding onto your steering wheel all the time while listening to the wind hitting the car.
[editline]21st June 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=hexpunK;41118833]W
But, how is that car sustainable? Petrol/ diesel aren't infinite resources, we can't exactly generate it en-masse without depleting something else right now. So how is that sustainable? Which is the point of the electric car, we can generate electricity in numerous ways, much more sustainable than burning fossil fuels, leaving the car itself to be more sustainable.[/QUOTE]
Well there were a few news articles a few months ago about synthetic "fossil fuel". If we combine that with in about, say, 30 years optimistically, non-electric cars being used almost exclusively for leasure, I can imagine it being sustainable, taking into account that for most people cars are just transportation and not any of the many other things they are for us enthusiasts.
Sad that the engine is practically silent, a big part of cars is that oh so sexy engine noise. But I would use it daily and some other car for fun.
[video=youtube;rDhnmO23fBU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDhnmO23fBU[/video]
Does that not make you moist?
[QUOTE=FordLord;41115369]I somewhat doubt Tesla would take the time to check cells and such, most likely just throw it on a charger and call it good until someone complains. Though we will have to wait and see.
They could track the person down, though if the battery does make it into someone car and performs like crap, theyll be in trouble.
Propane tanks are similar, however theyre dealing with a flammable gas and are regulated more.[/QUOTE]Yeah, those batteries? They self-diagnose. So if one's having trouble keeping a charge, I'm sure the rack has some way of saying, "hey, human operator, yeah... this one's telling me it's not working right. I'll make it easy by turning on an indicator light identifying the faulty battery." Pretty fucking easy.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;41119013]Sad that the engine is practically silent, a big part of cars is that oh so sexy engine noise. But I would use it daily and some other car for fun.
[video=youtube;rDhnmO23fBU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDhnmO23fBU[/video]
Does that not make you moist?[/QUOTE]
There are some thingies that emulate engine noise inside a car, through the stereo, but it's just not the same.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;41119013]Sad that the engine is practically silent, a big part of cars is that oh so sexy engine noise. But I would use it daily and some other car for fun.
[video=youtube;rDhnmO23fBU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDhnmO23fBU[/video]
Does that not make you moist?[/QUOTE]
As much as I see the need for, and approve of electric cars, it will be a shame to miss that mechanical feeling to ye olde engine. The short time I had driving a smart car sucked compared to the car I was learning in, automatic gearbox and tiny engine. At least I got to feel the engine working in the car I learned in.
[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;41119057]There are some thingies that emulate engine noise inside a car, through the stereo, but it's just not the same.[/QUOTE]
The rednecks around here would laugh their asses off I was in a car that did that
[QUOTE=FordLord;41117621]Considering you save tons of money buying a gas powered car, its not exactly ridiculous.
For instance, my car;
1999 Subaru Impreza.
Paid ~5000 back in '05.
We've put 100k miles or so on it since then, and it gets 30mpg or so.
After around 7 years of ownership, including the original cost, gas, maintenance, and upgrades, theres been around 20k USD spent on the car.
Compared to the cost of buying a Tesla, maintenance, etc. It ends up not being so bad paying for gas, when after 7 years ive only spent.. what, less than 1/3 the cost of a Tesla Model S?[/QUOTE]
Its a electric sport car, that will guaranteed a higher price, a nissan leaf would be much cheaper, but eww...
They want us to use electric car for pollution cause, but they gotta appeal us much more than that, they need to research a lot more imo.
Im a dirt bike fan and i dont wanna drive a electric dirt bike, the engine song mean so much to me, also for car.
Now the electric car boom begins.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;41119013]Sad that the engine is practically silent, a big part of cars is that oh so sexy engine noise. But I would use it daily and some other car for fun.
[video=youtube;rDhnmO23fBU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDhnmO23fBU[/video]
Does that not make you moist?[/QUOTE]
I understand you
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBJqrXuujPM[/media]
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;41119013]Sad that the engine is practically silent, a big part of cars is that oh so sexy engine noise. But I would use it daily and some other car for fun.
[video=youtube;rDhnmO23fBU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDhnmO23fBU[/video]
Does that not make you moist?[/QUOTE]
That's nice and all but honestly you can't even hear 95% of brand new cars on the road today.
You know, because most cities have noise codes that prevent you from driving loud cars like the above, or hell even cars with the muffler broken. Whens the last time you heard the "raw" engine sound of a prius? You don't. Just like you don't with almost all commercial non-enthusiast cars.
I don't think you guys realize electric cars aren't going to be for enthusiasts who like to collect old/enthusiast cars and soup up engines. You can always do that anyways on your own time. It's like saying that hybrids are stupid because you can't drift in them. Okay... so just don't use your hybrid as a drifting car?
So how long until swap stations start getting robbed blind?
[QUOTE=TestECull;41119859]So how long until swap stations start getting robbed blind?[/QUOTE]
You would need a truck and trailer and a crane/engine hoist to steal one of these half ton batteries. Not to mention they're likely stored underground.
Would just be easier to do the old park trailer over gas hole and pump free gas from station trick.
[editline]20th June 2013[/editline]
More profitable too. Congratulations you just stole half a ton of high voltage batteries have fun parting it out without electrocuting yourself.
[QUOTE=KorJax;41116732]If anything this is why we need to get electric cars off LiPo batteries ASAP and start moving into more advanced/experiemental battieries, such as what might be possible with Graphine. Not only would Graphine not have the issues Lithium batteries currently do, but they would hold a charge much better, charge much faster, etc.
That's the real only issue with electric ATM. The batteries simply aren't -there- yet to really support the electric car technology from really taking off. We have new ways of making better and better batteries now but none of it is commercially available yet or fully field tested.[/QUOTE]
Better:
[url]http://phys.org/news/2013-06-all-solid-sulfur-based-battery-outperforms-lithium-ion.html[/url]
Sulfur is dirt cheap and is produced as a byproduct of several industries, including oil. This still utilizes lithium, but does so in greatly reduced amounts.
No word on practicality, but oak ridge doesn't usually fuck around.
[QUOTE=FordLord;41117621]Considering you save tons of money buying a gas powered car, its not exactly ridiculous.
For instance, my car;
1999 Subaru Impreza.
Paid ~5000 back in '05.
We've put 100k miles or so on it since then, and it gets 30mpg or so.
After around 7 years of ownership, including the original cost, gas, maintenance, and upgrades, theres been around 20k USD spent on the car.
Compared to the cost of buying a Tesla, maintenance, etc. It ends up not being so bad paying for gas, when after 7 years ive only spent.. what, less than 1/3 the cost of a Tesla Model S?[/QUOTE]
well it's not really a fair comparison imo. consider how many cars tesla makes per year compared to any of the big car companies. it's like Whole Foods trying to compete with walmart.. of course their prices are going to be much higher but it's a niche market
[QUOTE=Penguiin;41120531]well it's not really a fair comparison imo. consider how many cars tesla makes per year compared to any of the big car companies. it's like Whole Foods trying to compete with walmart.. of course their prices are going to be much higher but it's a niche market[/QUOTE]
Speaking of Whole Foods, my parents saw their first electric car charging station at the one near me. I think the biggest problem electric cars face from an owner's viewpoint (I don't own one) is that there's a million and one gas stations but I could not tell you for my life where an electric charging station is.
[QUOTE=KorJax;41119840]That's nice and all but honestly you can't even hear 95% of brand new cars on the road today.
You know, because most cities have noise codes that prevent you from driving loud cars like the above, or hell even cars with the muffler broken. Whens the last time you heard the "raw" engine sound of a prius? You don't. Just like you don't with almost all commercial non-enthusiast cars.
[/QUOTE]
That's not how it works. You can't hear most brand new cars on the road because most people change gear at low revs instead of acting like they're in a circuit.
And cars in general have a restricted noise level. If that Mustang you quoted can be driven in suburbs or the countryside, it can be driven in a city.
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;41120725]Speaking of Whole Foods, my parents saw their first electric car charging station at the one near me. I think the biggest problem electric cars face from an owner's viewpoint (I don't own one) is that there's a million and one gas stations but I could not tell you for my life where an electric charging station is.[/QUOTE]
Public stations are all over but they're hiding in plain sight so it feels like they're not around. Tesla superchargers are advertised like gas stations. Except there's only 7 of them right now. By the end of summer there will be 27. By tge end of the year you'll be able to go coast to coast in a Tesla.
[QUOTE=KorJax;41116668]The issue with this though is batteries are generally big and expensive, so they'd probably be high theft targets, there'd likely be an easy way to exploit (i.e. take the battery out, but don't replace it with your old one), battery degradation (what if you happen to swap it out with a really old POS battery?), if an "electric station" is high enough volume you could easily find yourself pulling up to a stop that doesn't have any batteries in stock, the startup costs of an "electric station" would be extremely massive because you'd have to buy a ton of batteries to supply demand etc.
Though these issues can largely be solved by an innovative way of servicing to prevent theft and other issues. They'll also have to think of ways to get around the fact that batteries aren't cheap, so how are we gonna afford to build a gas station that can swap out batteries if there aren't any fully charged ones available yet, etc.[/QUOTE]
We'll assume by the time that this rolls around as being viable that a battery will cost about 10k USD. That is half a million USD startup if you buy fifty batteries. Not pennies, but not awful either. The building, battery rack, and preferably solar paneling will cost much more than that.
Each one of those 50 battery slots will then need to go through 200 charge discharge cycles each if you charge 50 bucks for a swap. The rack would test all batteries returned by drivers and refuse a battery if it fails to meet a minimum standard. The end result of this would be very minimal battery turn over. Your battery slots only occasionally need new ones purchased because you are never swapping good batteries for ones that you can't turn around and trade again.
Compare this to current gas stations who make very VERY little profit off of gas. They are much like movie theaters in that the primary attraction, the movie or gas, is just to get people to buy stuff in the concessions/convenience store. Once you manage 200 sales per slot, you are into profit land in this scenario. With solar power offsetting your power costs, you are going to make ridiculous amounts of money off of people. Especially if you also offer quick charge stations for a decreased fee. People shop while they wait for their car to charge, ultimately getting you lots of money either way.
I can see it being hugely profitable.
The event should be starting now but I can't find a stream.
for those of you complaining about price, they are starting with the high end cars and will become more affordable sooner enough
[quote]@TeslaMotors 18m
Swapping will take 90secs. You'll never get out of your car. Return the pack on your journey back or keep it & we'll bill you the difference[/quote]
I'm really curious how this works.
[editline]20th June 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=T2L_Goose;41118166]If they're backwards compatible that would mean they would have to be the same size as the old battery, thus stunting advancement in car designs. If the battery was smaller, you would be able to shrink the battery bay and put even more things into the car, or just make it lighter and more efficient.
[b]The Model S battery is already very thin, and forms part of the ridged frame design. There would be mass where it lays regardless of the size of the battery, thus not giving more space for the cab.[/b]
Upgrading every old electric car to the new standard is a pretty big inconvenience for consumers. They would have to give up their mode of transportation for however long it will take to have their vehicle upgraded. It would also be extremely expensive. Whether Tesla would pass that price down to the consumer is to be seen, but I imagine they will have a hard time making a profit if they upgraded their vehicles for free.
[b]Tesla supplies a better Model S than the one you own if you need transportation, and they pick up your vehicle at a location of your convenience. You would likely have to pay for it as it is an upgrade. [/b]
Like I said, this idea where you swap out batteries is a neat idea, and a way for electric vehicles to charge up fast, but it has a lot of downsides and will not attract the average consumer. I say the average consumer because if you want any change in pollution, you're going to have to sell this to more than a few thousand enthusiasts.
[b]Tesla estimates it will produce around 20,000 Model S vehicles this year, twice as many as last year. The vehicles are made to order.[/b] [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=FordLord;41115158]Swapping used batteries :V
As someone else pointed out, it could also be bad because you dont know the condition of the batteries. You could be swapping your perfectly good one thats just low on juice, for one that doesnt even hold a charge properly
Theres no need to swap fuel cells, as filling a car is quick. Im basically trying to show you that having to swap batteries is as ridiculous as pulling the gas tank or a fuel cell out of your car every time it runs out. Actually, even more ridiculous, considering swapping a gas tank atleast gives you fresh fuel[/QUOTE]
Maybe you need to get somewhere, but you do not have the charge to make it to the destination, nor do you have the time to charge your car. You swap out your pack and plug in the one you took out and then you have a fully charged pack in your car to do whatever.
[QUOTE=FordLord;41117621]Considering you save tons of money buying a gas powered car, its not exactly ridiculous.
For instance, my car;
1999 Subaru Impreza.
Paid ~5000 back in '05.
We've put 100k miles or so on it since then, and it gets 30mpg or so.
After around 7 years of ownership, including the original cost, gas, maintenance, and upgrades, theres been around 20k USD spent on the car.
Compared to the cost of buying a Tesla, maintenance, etc. It ends up not being so bad paying for gas, when after 7 years ive only spent.. what, less than 1/3 the cost of a Tesla Model S?[/QUOTE]
that's not really a good comparison.
[QUOTE=God of Ashes;41122127]that's not really a good comparison.[/QUOTE]
Pretty good comparison, if you ask me.
Especially considering an Impreza offers more than a Tesla, and still costs much less after factoring in years of maintenance and use.
You could do the same with another car really, used or new. A gas car is cheaper, for quite a few years.
[QUOTE=FordLord;41122396]Pretty good comparison, if you ask me.
Especially considering an Impreza offers more than a Tesla, and still costs much less after factoring in years of maintenance and use.
You could do the same with another car really, used or new. A gas car is cheaper, for quite a few years.[/QUOTE]
an Impreza is also cheaper than a Mustang, and offers more. when you buy a Tesla, you're paying for a state-of-the-art electric car, with top of the line features, and uses bleeding edge technology to power it. you're making an investment with the idea that not only will the price of gasoline increase, but with the idea that you're investing in the future of the Tesla company. these cars are not marketed at the general public, they're marketed at those who have a lot of money and want to take a risk.
I know there are at least 3 charging stations in my town and it's a pretty average town and really out of the way. You just need to look for them.
I bet my 91 Camry can out speed these fuckers easy :P
[QUOTE=Ryukrawr?;41122847]I bet my 91 Camry can out speed these fuckers easy :P[/QUOTE]
[video=youtube;VLCdP6sMN9k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLCdP6sMN9k[/video]
These aren't little smart cars
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