12-year-old boy accidentally kills mother's friend at shooting range - Polidicks

[QUOTE=o DefcoN o;42579692]I wouldn't even pull the trigger of a gun at someone if I knew 100% it wasn't loaded. It's just common sense.[/QUOTE] Not to everybody it's not.

[QUOTE=Mabus;42579102]Bullshit, you never play around with a weapon especially if you don't know if its loaded or not. These fundamentals should have been drummed into the child before he even went near a firearm.[/QUOTE] the one moment I would actually support smacking a child just once is if they try and play around with a gun. That's the one time it's ok. [QUOTE=Psychokitten;42579125]Kid was twelve.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Psychokitten;42579174]What if he hadn't had that luxury?[/QUOTE] lmao "oh he's 12" "Oh what if he wasn't told?!" he's 12, not an idiot. He should have known better, but the instructor should have also known to press it down. [QUOTE=theVendetta;42579654]He should be charged with murder.[/QUOTE] you just love wanting excessive force to be used on everything don't you. Do you support the death penalty for most offenses and the 3 strikes system as well?

how do all the idiots who're shouting "oh he should be punished" expect a 12 year old to be punished jesus he just shot a person at 12, the best thing for him is juvvie ofc why do people never imagine themselves in the shoes of these people to everyone who calls for "justice" - I wish you'd have been persecuted for an unwillingly committed crime at the age where you started to get an idea what morals are dicks.

[QUOTE=MrJazzy;42580037]Except he's fucking 12...[/QUOTE] Why is being 12 an excuse for not accepting consequences for your actions?

[QUOTE=theVendetta;42580099]Why is being 12 an excuse for not accepting consequences for your actions?[/QUOTE] remember when you were 12 you probably started realizing what vaginas are, accidentally killing a person was probably among those discoveries too, right?

[QUOTE=J!NX;42580061]lmao "oh he's 12" "Oh what if he wasn't told?!" he's 12, not an idiot. He should have known better, but the instructor should have also known to press it down.[/QUOTE] You'd really trust a 12 year old with a gun? If he thought it was unloaded how could he have known? Handling every gun as if it's loaded is not exactly something you know from birth.

[QUOTE=theVendetta;42580099]Why is being 12 an excuse for not accepting consequences for your actions?[/QUOTE] Do you have literally know idea the moral and social controversies that would arise in the eyes of literally everyone rational if you charged a 12 year old with murder? People would be SERIOUSLY pissed, not only that, but the brain only fully develops when you're 18-25, 12 is extremely young and you're not even at the average age of puberty. Nor are you even old enough to live on your own at all. You aren't able to make major decisions on the same level of an adult yet. [QUOTE=MrJazzy;42580119]You'd really trust a 12 year old with a gun? If he thought it was unloaded how could he have known? Handling every gun as if it's loaded is not exactly something you know from birth.[/QUOTE] Well, hell no, I'd never give a 12 year old a gun, only an idiot would do that. Unless that 12 year old was mentally very mature. But I would also be very hard pressed on the rules of gun safety. I don't even know why the 12 year old was allowed to be in the firing range to begin with to be honest. Do people have no concept of what an age limit is?

[QUOTE=theVendetta;42580099]Why is being 12 an excuse for not accepting consequences for your actions?[/QUOTE] His actions were the result of lack of information, it was another persons duty to inform him, and since they failed to do so he is not liable, how is this so difficult to understand? Heck even as an adult, if someone has the duty to inform you of a potential hazard in your environment, and fail to adequately do so, they are liable. If you slip and crack your head on the floor at a fast food restaurant, and they did not have a spill warning sign up or a person warning people of the spill they are liable for your injuries.

[QUOTE=theVendetta;42580099]Why is being 12 an excuse for not accepting consequences for your actions?[/QUOTE] Because by the age of 12 you probably haven't even hit puberty yet - or atleast you're just starting to - your entire concept of the world has been built up by mostly your parents. Do I even have to say more?

[QUOTE=MrJazzy;42580136]Because by the age of 12 you probably haven't even hit puberty yet - or atleast you're just starting to - your entire concept of the world has been built up by mostly your parents. Do I even have to say more?[/QUOTE] To be fair there are some impressively mature 12 year olds but like I said legally a 14-16 year old at most shouldn't even be allowed in a firing range. As evidenced by this article.

[QUOTE=J!NX;42580121]Well, hell no, I'd never give a 12 year old a gun, only an idiot would do that. Unless that 12 year old was mentally very mature. But I would also be very hard pressed on the rules of gun safety. I don't even know why the 12 year old was allowed to be in the firing range to begin with to be honest. Do people have no concept of what an age limit is?[/QUOTE] Nobody is implying he's an idiot, but by the age of 12 you're far from being mature enough to take responsibility for your own actions. [editline]20th October 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=J!NX;42580147]To be fair there are some impressively mature 12 year olds but like I said[/QUOTE] Mature in what way exactly? Yeah I won't deny there are 12 year olds who are smart and well brought up but you're only like half-way to being biologically mature - that includes the brain. There are things you physically can't understand yet, you're nowhere near the thinking capabilities of an independent human adult. Not only that but the fact that you probably haven't spent more than maybe a month at a time away from your parents, you haven't even had the choice of school yet, all your clothes have been bought by your parents, food... How can you blame a kid when he is basically the production of other people?

Regardless of the fact that he knew better or not, he killed someone by accident so he'll be traumatized for life over this and blaming and then charging him (which is impossible since he's a minor) would just be salt in the wound.

[QUOTE=RG4ORDR;42579107]Retrieving targets or not you shouldn't walk out on something like that EVER.[/QUOTE] Have you been to a range? 99% of ranges you have to walk past the firing line to get and place targets. Normally when people are walking down range everyone has their weapons holstered or on a rack (both cleared and empty). [quote]A female instructor asked the boy to take the rifle in his hands, without making sure that the weapon at this point was not loaded. At some point, the child apparently jokingly took aim at the people in front of him, and pulled the trigger, fatally hitting the family friend in the head and killing him instantly. While police acknowledge the boy is also at fault for playing around with the loaded weapon, charges are expected to be laid against the instructor for not ensuring the rifle was empty at the time. Read more at [url]http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=181_1381820483#Q67I4r1svPIRi56U.99[/url][/quote] This is really sad. So much neglect... [QUOTE=Psychokitten;42579174]What if he hadn't had that luxury?[/QUOTE] If this kid didn't have the "luxury" of knowing safety rules (who the fuck says safety is a luxury) he shouldn't have been handling any firearm.

It looks like the handler was standing directly in front of the gun and using a camera to take pictures. She must have genuinely thought the gun to be unloaded at that point. Regardless of that, she should have uncocked it/ made sure the safety was on, the magazine out, and that the chamber was clear. Too little precaution was taken. Neglect? Possibly.

[QUOTE=SCopE5000;42580285]It looks like the handler was standing directly in front of the gun and using a camera to take pictures. She must have genuinely thought the gun to be unloaded at that point. Regardless of that, she should have uncocked it/ made sure the safety was on, the magazine out, and that the chamber was clear. Too little precaution was taken. Neglect? Possibly.[/QUOTE] Nah, then the photo wouldn't look realistic..

[QUOTE=Blind Lulu;42580313]Well if the adults weren't taking the gun seriously then it's no wonder the kid didn't take it seriously either.[/QUOTE] In US ranges/ranges in general, you don't see accidents like this because of the measures taken to ensure no-one gets shot accidentally. No one enters the range until everyone going down range is satisfied that the guns in play are unloaded, everyone involved has seen them being unloaded, and that the chambers are empty and have been double/triple checked to be so. Even then, no one messes around with guns whilst people are down range. The second precaution is usually having non-enterable ranges where targets are on overhead rails - that way practically nothing can go-wrong as no one is ever down range. In this, we see absolutely none of the above, nor any real due care at all. A gun range in the suburbs of Moscow is clearly a liability, and I'm surprised there haven't been more accidents of this caliber.

[QUOTE=SCopE5000;42580367]In US ranges/ranges in general, you don't see accidents like this because of the measures taken to ensure no-one gets shot accidentally. No one enters the range until everyone going down range is satisfied that the guns in play are unloaded, everyone involved has seen them being unloaded, and that the chambers are empty and have been double/triple checked to be so. Even then, no one messes around with guns whilst people are down range. The second precaution is usually having non-enterable ranges where targets are on overhead rails - that way practically nothing can go-wrong as no one is ever down range. In this, we see absolutely none of the above, nor any real due care at all. A gun range in the suburbs of Moscow is clearly a liability, and I'm surprised there haven't been more accidents of this caliber.[/QUOTE] The same applies with any decent archery or air gun range in the UK. I have been to both and the instructors took it extremely seriously; if any person was out on the range, everyone's weapons had to be unloaded, put down and they had to be standing back from them. Of course the gun instructor had various stories of people being idiots and still deciding to take a shot when someone was out on the range, or needing help / having an issue with their gun and turning around with their finger still on the loaded gun's trigger, pointing it away from the range / at other people. I know for certain that if I was doing that kind of job I would want people well away from guns/bows/whatever if I was going anywhere near the range, and even then I still probably wouldn't do that job just because incidents like this show how stupidly negligent people can be until its too late and they have killed someone.

[QUOTE=RG4ORDR;42579107]Retrieving targets or not you shouldn't walk out on something like that EVER.[/QUOTE] What? When people go out to retrieve targets all firing is stopped and usually the guns are unloaded. Have you ever been to a shooting range?

-snip- I just realized this was in Russia. Damn, it looks like they just put two tables down a hall way and called it a gun range.

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;42579125]Kid was twelve.[/QUOTE] Yeah, twelve, not fucking brain-dead.

why is a 12 year old in a shooting range in the first place

no idea if the kid was properly trained or not but if he wasn't it's not exactly his fault that he wasn't

I don't get why common sense is so hard.

[QUOTE=Jetpack Bear;42581131]why is a 12 year old in a shooting range in the first place[/QUOTE] Training him for conscription? It's Russia, who the fuck knows?

[QUOTE=AK'z;42579083]the instructor is at fault for not checking if it was loaded.[/QUOTE] the kid is at fault for pointing a loaded gun at someone and pulling the trigger

Yeah kid should go to a detention center until he's old enough for jail.

[QUOTE=draugur;42579149]I knew gun safety by heart before I even had an airsoft gun. Age is no excuse, that's like saying if a kid snuck away from his parent and picked up some money laying on a table at a bank he shouldn't be punished because he's 12. Ignorance of the law isn't a valid excuse.[/QUOTE] Ignorance of the law actually does work differently with children.

people are looking at this from an American standpoint and forgetting it happened in Russia can't argue legality if you don't know their laws do they even have an "ignorance of law" legal standard?

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;42579125]Kid was twelve.[/QUOTE] That's not an excuse. I knew proper gun safety when I was 9. If he's being taken shooting he should have been taught basic safety

Shit..