12-year-old boy accidentally kills mother's friend at shooting range - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Telepethi;42585291]That's not an excuse. I knew proper gun safety when I was 9. If he's being taken shooting he should have been taught basic safety[/QUOTE] Um, yeah, so it's not the kid's fault that he hadn't been taught this.

[QUOTE=Matthew7434;42579355]what kind of fucked up school did you go to where you were learning calculus in 6th grade[/QUOTE] We learnt it at 13 here, so not far off.

[QUOTE=Killuah;42579243]That's 6th grade. You're starting calculus in most schools at that age.[/QUOTE] Do what? We didn't even start pre algebra until grade 7. Fuck our education system.

[QUOTE=Telepethi;42585291]I knew proper gun safety when I was 9.[/QUOTE] So what? Gun safety isn't something you learn by yourself. This boy clearly hadn't been taught the correct way to handle weapon and acted incorrectly as a result. I'm baffled as to why people think he should be charged because of other people's oversight.

[QUOTE=Muthenfrucheir;42579079]so he pointed a gun at a person and pulled the trigger without even ensuring it was unloaded pretty dumb. Instructor too.[/QUOTE] Going to have to go with this being the shooting range/instructor's fault. Allowing people to walk in front of the firing line while someone, especially a young kid, handles a weapon that they didn't even check to see if it was empty.

[QUOTE=Wiggles;42585811]So what? Gun safety isn't something you learn by yourself. This boy clearly hadn't been taught the correct way to handle weapon and acted incorrectly as a result. I'm baffled as to why people think he should be charged because of other people's oversight.[/QUOTE] I learned it by myself. it should be obvious that you shouldn't point a gun at someone and pull the trigger whether it's loaded or not

I heard about that thts freaking crazy man

Thats pretty shitty. :c

-snip-

[QUOTE=butre;42590047]I learned it by myself. it should be obvious that you shouldn't point a gun at someone and pull the trigger whether it's loaded or not[/QUOTE] Really? It should be obvious because it is a genetic thing that every child is born with or what? It doesn't work like that. Even though you may not realise it, I'll argue that you understood that it could be dangerous because of things you had seen and learned during your youth - what is obvious to you isn't obvious to everybody. If a kid grows up around people that don't properly treat and respect guns, obviously the kids isn't going to - this is a general fact about children, they learn from people around them. If the kid [I]knew[/I] the gun was loaded it would probably have been obvious to him that he shouldn't point at someone and pull the trigger - but he didn't, and the whole "treat every gun as if it's loaded" isn't something a kid picks up on his own, especially not if he doesn't use guns very often.

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;42579125]Kid was twelve.[/QUOTE] By the time I was 11, I was taking my 1943 '91/30 Mosin-Nagant to the range one saturday a month and putting hundreds of rounds downrange. By the time I was 13, I had fired and mastered over 250 different handguns and long guns (dad would take me to the range to rent guns and I would do as much research beforehand about what I was going to shoot that day). I'm 20 years old and have yet to accidentally discharge a firearm to this day. There's really no excuse for lack of firearms safety fundamentals being taught. This is just as much the adults' fault as it is the kid's. This is yet another shitty reminder to [b]CHECK THE CHAMBER OF ANY FUCKING WEAPON BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING FUCKING ELSE WITH IT. [/b]

[QUOTE=theVendetta;42579843]If aiming a gun at someone and intentionally pulling the trigger isn't murder than no.[/QUOTE] If he's to be charged with anything it would be Manslaughter, murder is the intent to kill Also, the instructor is purely at fault if reasonable evidence can indicate the kid was taught beforehand, this is under the assumption the kid was new to weapons and the instructor knew about this, if the kid has had previous experience then yes they could find he should of known better but the instructor will not walk scot free from this, this is a big example case of negligence

Blaming the kid is like consciously putting a glass of milk next to a cat and then blaming the cat when the glass is knocked over. Unless you're sure the kid is responsible and knows gun safety, you don't take him to a gun range - and unless you know the gun is unloaded, you don't give a gun to a kid.

To those that say that the boy coulden't know any better because he is 12: [video=youtube;_qLIO4ugFQE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qLIO4ugFQE[/video] As far as I am concerned, range safety is still the responsibility of the instructor, and that is especially the case with untrained people being present at the range. In Denmark (even in the army) people who are not trained in firearms safety simply aren't allowed to fire anything at a range. If present, they should be kept away from the firing line untill they have recieved proper instruction with the given firearms platform. The instructor failed at his/her job in every possible way, and should be held responsible.

[QUOTE=Cushie;42580711]The same applies with any decent archery or air gun range in the UK. I have been to both and the instructors took it extremely seriously; if any person was out on the range, everyone's weapons had to be unloaded, put down and they had to be standing back from them. Of course the gun instructor had various stories of people being idiots and still deciding to take a shot when someone was out on the range, or needing help / having an issue with their gun and turning around with their finger still on the loaded gun's trigger, pointing it away from the range / at other people. I know for certain that if I was doing that kind of job I would want people well away from guns/bows/whatever if I was going anywhere near the range, and even then I still probably wouldn't do that job just because incidents like this show how stupidly negligent people can be until its too late and they have killed someone.[/QUOTE] The gun ranges here also make you sign a form after you've been taught gun safety (before you're even allowed to touch a loaded weapon) that says the shooter takes full legal responsibility if someone on the range gets shot by them.

Obligatory box invoking Australian anti-gun statement: Ban guns.

[QUOTE=Bonde;42593690]To those that say that the boy coulden't know any better because he is 12[/QUOTE] I'm not saying he couldn't have known better because he's 12, I'm saying a 12 year old who hasn't been taught gun safety is not to blame. A 20 year old who hasn't been taught gun safety on the other hand can be blamed for something like this.

I can't believe this thread how the fuck do you expect a 12 year old to understand gun safety with no prior experience? just because you gun nerds were dismantling your mosins at 7 years old that is not necessarily the norm the only experience with guns many kids have at that age is what they see in movies and tv, aka the protagonist waving his gun around with his finger on the trigger this is the fault of the instructor and the parents for bringing a child to the gun range and without prior experience and letting him handle a gun without proper supervision

[QUOTE=krail9;42594729]I can't believe this thread how the fuck do you expect a 12 year old to understand gun safety with no prior experience? just because you gun nerds were dismantling your mosins at 7 years old that is not necessarily the norm the only experience with guns many kids have at that age is what they see in movies and tv, aka the protagonist waving his gun around with his finger on the trigger this is the fault of the instructor and the parents for bringing a child to the gun range and without prior experience and letting him handle a gun without proper supervision[/QUOTE] The first and only time I touched a gun was at age 17 and before that I had no idea how they worked. Loooong before that I knew never point a gun at someone you don't want to shoot. You don't keep your finger on the trigger when you don't want to shoot. Its common sense. I'm not saying the kid is the one to blame, its more the instructor's fault. But the fact that he's a kid doesn't excuse him from doing something as stupid as pointing gun at somebody and pulling the trigger. 12 is young, yeah, but its not like he's a baby who doesn't know not to shit in his pants. And saying his only exposure to guns at his age is what he sees in movies is no excuse. I was gunning people down in games at what, 5,6? Even with years of unrealistic exposure to weapon safety, or lackthereof, I was doing archery around 12 and knew to treat a bow as a weapon, not a toy. Common sense kicks in a lot earlier then you think. I don't think the kid should be punished, but I simply can't say he's not at all to blame. 12 year olds are capable of logical reasoning and something should have clicked with him that gave him the idea to not point the gun at somebody and especially to not pull the trigger. I sympathize with him I really do, this is a horrible traumatic experience. I do feel the real problem lies in his parents and his instructor and the lack of laws to keep weapons like this out of thee hands of people, especially children, who are not ready to handle them.

I was learning trigger discipline when I was [I]seven.[/I] Finger off the trigger until you're aiming at your target. Don't ever point it at something unless you plan to shoot it. Every gun is loaded, even when its not. And [I]every[/I] range I've ever been to that lacked a motorized target pully always was run the same way. All people get their guns, their ammo, range is cleared, Range Master says "Range is clear, aim downrange, chamber a round, fire at will" All rounds are fired, Range Master says "Cease fire, empty your chamber, set your weapon down, once all weapons are unloaded and down you may retrieve your target" You got your ass chewed out hardcore by a bahzillion people and were usually banned from the range if you fucked that up at all. And that was boy scout camp. They don't fuck around [I]period[/I] when it comes to guns. The parents and the Range Master are at fault for not teaching the kid basic trigger discipline, and the Range Master is at fault even more for not keeping order and safety on the range.

to those people saying the kid should be punished accordingly, how the FUCK do you punish a 12 year old for killing someone ?

It's probably been said dozens of times before all that's wrong with this story about people not following gun safety so I won't go there but You are just pretending to shoot to take a picture and you actually start aiming at someone's head and pull the trigger? What the hell was he thinking?

-snip misread title-

[QUOTE=krail9;42594729]I can't believe this thread how the fuck do you expect a 12 year old to understand gun safety with no prior experience? just because you gun nerds were dismantling your mosins at 7 years old that is not necessarily the norm the only experience with guns many kids have at that age is what they see in movies and tv, aka the protagonist waving his gun around with his finger on the trigger this is the fault of the instructor and the parents for bringing a child to the gun range and without prior experience and letting him handle a gun without proper supervision[/QUOTE] Did you even get the point of my post? I said teaching gun safety to a kid can be done, I blamed the instructor because they didn't.

[QUOTE=krail9;42594729] how the fuck do you expect a 12 year old to understand gun safety with no prior experience? [/QUOTE] The line "Don't point a gun at somebody without intending to kill them" or some rendition of that is so common in action movies and violent videogames. Its basically overused.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;42597017]The line "Don't point a gun at somebody without intending to kill them" or some rendition of that is so common in action movies and violent videogames. Its basically overused.[/QUOTE] Really? I see it occassionly in films, never in videogames.

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;42579125]Kid was twelve.[/QUOTE] Not a reason, you can teach a 1 year old to piss in a toilet, why not teach a 12 year old to NOT POINT A GUN AT SOMEONE?

who the fuck takes a 12 year old kid to a shooting range and lets them hold a fully loaded gun [editline]21st October 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Bora;42595178]to those people saying the kid should be punished accordingly, how the FUCK do you punish a 12 year old for killing someone ?[/QUOTE] You're criminally responsible for everything you do, at least in this country, by age 10.

[QUOTE=Soldier32;42579406]Ok, that's cool sorry but unlike you not everyone knows everything about guns when they were fresh outta the womb[/QUOTE] You were 12 years old right after being born? BURN THE WIZARD!

[QUOTE=AK'z;42579083]the instructor is at fault for not checking if it was loaded.[/QUOTE] I'd say it's the twelve year olds fault for you know, pulling the trigger and killing someone.