[QUOTE=frozensoda;44558241]There's way more people coming in here just to say this without reading or answering the legitimate concerns. If anything it's you guys who are the ones who are "going out of their way" to be ridiculous. No one is encouraging you to smoke pot, and everyone in here who seems like they smoke weed are taking an impartial stance rather than "freaking out"
This study only involved 40 people, and I can't even find the actual paper, just this article, and you guys are claiming "That's it marijuana does indeed cause brain damage."[/QUOTE]
You seem awfully eager to defend marijuana from people on a forum.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;44558276]You seem awfully eager to defend marijuana from people on a forum.[/QUOTE]
What does that even mean, and why do you never ever respond to the actual comment you quote, but always post some meta-conversation that's completely meaningless and vaguely reminiscent of a straw-man fallacy?
You seem awfully eager to attack marijuana to people on a forum.
There, now the fucking idiotic statements cancel each other out, wanna get back on topic or just trollbait some more?
A lot of the issues with measuring the dosage of weed is that in most states its a schedule I drug (like heroin and meth) and there's tons of red tape, security concerns and paperwork involved in doing research with them. The THC amount is variable and most people when they smoke don't do a controlled dosage, they smoke a joint. So, in order to best simulate a real world application they usually just have the participants roll their own joints and measure the number of them. The problem is that for statistical and control reasons a standardized dosage is important. I haven't read a single marijuanna study that actually used grams of weed or THC content to measure the amount done, as sometimes the researchers don't have access to the drug and just have people self-report their own product usage. Also, the rolling paper used could be a potential confound, but that's only important if it's cancer studies.
[QUOTE=frozensoda;44558241]There's way more people coming in here just to say this without reading or answering the legitimate concerns. If anything it's you guys who are the ones who are "going out of their way" to be ridiculous. No one is encouraging you to smoke pot, and everyone in here who seems like they smoke weed are taking an impartial stance rather than "freaking out"
This study only involved 40 people, and I can't even find the actual paper just this article, and you guys are claiming "That's it marijuana does indeed cause brain damage."
it's almost like you guys are using what other like-minded people think about the "pot-heads" as your basis for what a weed smoker is. Circular reference, I think.[/QUOTE]
I wasn't saying that at all, maybe the first sentence seemed snide but I was literally saying that the study had too small of a sample size which is exactly what your point was so I have no clue why I'm an example of opposition :v:
[QUOTE=Duck M.;44558431]I wasn't saying that at all, maybe the first sentence seemed snide but I was literally saying that the study had too small of a sample size which is exactly what your point was so I have no clue why I'm an example of opposition :v:[/QUOTE]
That's why I quoted your whole post, I only included it because I found it to be an example of someone basing their beliefs about this on what other like-minded people have said in the past, not based on actual facts or even personal experiences.
I'm just saying in all those posts the poster implies something about "stoners" that is based on nothing, and no one in support of marijuana has done the things that are implied. Like how half of them said something along the lines of "stoners only accept evidence when it's in their favor" when in reality, the "stoners" who post here are taking an impartial "no shit" attitude, while the anti-weed people are the ones who are rejecting literally everything up until this one single piece of evidence that I can't even find the actual paper it's based on.
How hard could it be to get people to self report dosages? There are countless people who own scales who could give the researchers plenty of data.
[QUOTE=Furioso;44555680]The idiotic generalizations that have been made in this thread make me want to vomit.
All stimuli and substances alter your brain chemistry in some fashion. Why do the results of this study come as a surprise?
[editline]fuck off[/editline]
The people rating me dumb apparently do not understand the concept of neuroplasticity.[/QUOTE]
The avatar might have something to do with that :v:
And Alcohol does harm your body.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;44558276]You seem awfully eager to defend marijuana from people on a forum.[/QUOTE]
what is a forum
[QUOTE=Furioso;44558535]what is a forum[/QUOTE]
A miserable pile of posters
[QUOTE=27X;44558578]A miserable pile of posters[/QUOTE]
[t]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7132/7839841744_228ba52c8a_o.jpg[/t]
i was a heavy marijuana smoker from age 18-20, my emotional health is pretty sound, but i find myself lacking motivation when going to work and participating in mundane tasks. there's no shortage of motivation when expressing myself through art and music, but that seems to have been the story before i even started smoking weed.
Better documentation of effects is always a good thing.
[QUOTE=jediken21;44555427]And still zero deaths in recorded history ever attributed to smoking cannabis. Deal w/ it nerds.[/QUOTE]
zero deaths maybe, but it at least ruined my brother, he's now paranoid and thinks everybody wants to kill him, he thought me and my dad we're talking about killing him while we we're putting an engine in my bmw.
[QUOTE=Psygo;44559389]zero deaths maybe, but it at least ruined my brother, he's now paranoid and thinks everybody wants to kill him, he thought me and my dad we're talking about killing him while we we're putting an engine in my bmw.[/QUOTE]
are you sure there hasn't been any tension between you and him and marijuana is the only factor?
[QUOTE=Psygo;44559389]zero deaths maybe, but it at least ruined my brother, he's now paranoid and thinks everybody wants to kill him, he thought me and my dad we're talking about killing him while we we're putting an engine in my bmw.[/QUOTE]
That sounds more like schizophrenia than anything to me man, maybe you should try talking him into seeing a psychiatrist. My grandmother suffered from it and it had a similar effect, I really don't think weed causes that kind of paranoia.
[QUOTE=AJ10017;44555512]No shit? You cant do drugs and not expect negative effects[/QUOTE]
Working at walmart and taking shit every day is worse for my health than a joint :v
[QUOTE=postmanX3;44555492]interesting study, but as they point out themselves it's a very small sample (20 smokers, 20 non-smokers) and even if they've observed "structural changes" they don't articulate what these changes actually mean for the person.
i think it's a bit silly to definitely comment one way or the other on the harmfulness of weed considering how evidently it's not yet fully-researched. but people who smoke accept the risks thereof, and it's not that different from someone who chooses to smoke tobacco or drink on a regular basis.[/QUOTE]
Well honestly, it sounds about right. I smoked weed every other day last year with very few breaks, the year before, not much less, and the two years prior at least once a week. Throughout those 4 years and this one too, I've been lazy as fuck and found it impossible to motivate myself until a couple months after I quit, it's still quite difficult now.
[QUOTE=AJ10017;44556019]69 out of 7000 sounds like a small amount to me[/QUOTE]It doesn't take much for a chemical to do some sort of damage to you. The maximum allowable level of benzene in drinking water in the US, for example, is 0.005mg/l. To put that into context, 3-5mg is approximately the weight of a single granule of table sugar. Breathing apparatus is required in the US for workers exposed to 1 part per million of benzene or more in the air during the course of the working day. A 30 a day habit will give you 1.8mg of benzene.
[QUOTE=kattolil;44555494]Isn't 20 people a relatively small sample size to extrapolate that everyone who does smoke regularly must have some sort of "damage" ?
Speaking of damage, what kind are we talking about? THC doesn't release free radicals or other toxic agents as I know of, so what does it actually do that makes certain areas enlargened?
[/QUOTE]
20 smokers and 20 non-smokers. A sample of 40 participants is of decent size.
[QUOTE=kattolil;44555494]"The changes in brain structures indicate the marijuana users' brains are adapting to low-level exposure to marijuana, the scientists said."
So what, additional neurons are created cause we do x thing? That is hardly news.[/QUOTE]
Neurogenesis is a lot more complex than that. In fact, there are only two known places in the human brain where new neurons can regrow (Hippocampus & olfactory bulb). These abnormalities is not a result of new neurons, but probably more in the style of excess synaptic growth, like additional dendritic spines that makes the neurons more sensitive for picking up signal. And this isn't always a good thing.
[QUOTE=kattolil;44555494]To add onto my first point, maybe the people already had the tendency to rely on addictive activites, and thus already had to some point, "damaged" (Read : Enlargened brain areas) their brain?[/QUOTE]
This is actually a good point that you bring light to. Some people have a predisposition to become addicted to substances, be it alcohol, cannabis, coke or whatever. It doesn't matter as long as this craving is filled.
[editline]16th April 2014[/editline]
I also looked through worldcat and web of science for the paper but couldn't find it.
I never really get the argument of "Sure it does this harmful thing but so does X"
That always seems the same as arguing "Well X did the same thing so I shouldn't be banned!"
No one is arguing if it should be legal, simply if it has harmful effects. Some other common thing also having harmful effects doesn't make it stop having those effects.
My personal favourite anecdote in this forum with weed is 'weed isn't bad for you ive been 420blazing it for years and im fine' and the demographic for this forum is late-teens and early twenties.
Try smoking the stuff for 20 years, at least once a week, and come back and tell us how good for you it is.
(It isnt)
[QUOTE=frozensoda;44559469]That sounds more like schizophrenia than anything to me man, maybe you should try talking him into seeing a psychiatrist. My grandmother suffered from it and it had a similar effect, I really don't think weed causes that kind of paranoia.[/QUOTE]
Pretty sure weed can bring latent psychosis out
[QUOTE=Glitchbunny;44559973]My personal favourite anecdote in this forum with weed is 'weed isn't bad for you ive been 420blazing it for years and im fine' and the demographic for this forum is late-teens and early twenties.
Try smoking the stuff for 20 years, at least once a week, and come back and tell us how good for you it is.
(It isnt)[/QUOTE]
Snoop dogg is fifty
[QUOTE=Zpoon;44560176]Yeah, which means you must be predisposed. It could be schizophrenia and the weed triggered a psychosis.[/QUOTE]
I think saying everyone who has suffered any kind of psychosis under the effects of cannabis has some sort of underlying schizophrenia is a little misleading. Some people might be predispositioned through mental illness or genes, but weed has a known side-effect which is very common which is paranoia, to think it can't cause other types of mental instability because science hasn't proved it is a silly stance.
EDIT:
[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;44560192]Snoop dogg is fifty[/QUOTE]
Yes because Snoop Dogg is a perfect example. Have you seen him in interviews or in guest appearances? He looks like he's barely there.
[QUOTE=Glitchbunny;44560206]to think it can't cause other types of mental instability because science hasn't proved it is a silly stance.
[/quote]
to think it [I]can[/I] is exactly as silly without the required study.
[QUOTE=Glitchbunny;44560206]
Yes because Snoop Dogg is a perfect example. Have you seen him in interviews or in guest appearances? He looks like he's barely there.[/QUOTE]
I'd bet that Snoop Dogg does alot of shit other than marijuana on the side.
[QUOTE=Glitchbunny;44560206]I think saying everyone who has suffered any kind of psychosis under the effects of cannabis has some sort of underlying schizophrenia is a little misleading. [/QUOTE]
I did not say that. Having the delusion that your family is planning to kill you is quite heavily paranoid and could be the indicator of such a disorder.
Normally people won't get to that "level" of paranoia and anxiety from smoking.
[QUOTE=Falchion;44560256]to think it [I]can[/I] is exactly as silly without the required study.[/quote]
Do you also need a study to prove to you that jumping in a pool of lava is bad for your health?
Cannabis can cause:
confusion
altered thinking and memory
anxiety
mild paranoia
hallucinations
panic (hysteria)
detachment from reality
Is it really out of the park to think that it can also cause other short-term mental side-effects?
[QUOTE=Falchion;44560256]I'd bet that Snoop Dogg does alot of shit other than marijuana on the side.[/QUOTE]
Which is why I agree it's a bad example.
[QUOTE=Zpoon;44560261]I did not say that. Having the delusion that your family is planning to kill you is quite heavily paranoid and could be the indicator of such a disorder.
Normally people won't get to that "level" of paranoia and anxiety from smoking.[/QUOTE]
I think the example you suggested is a little extreme, but primarily I meant that people's reactions can differ greatly, mental illness or not.
[QUOTE=Glitchbunny;44560279]I think the example you suggested is a little extreme, but primarily I meant that people's reactions can differ greatly, mental illness or not.[/QUOTE]
I was addressing a real example on the last page.
We know plenty of it's short-term mental effects, this is about longterm changes.
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