[QUOTE=Zpoon;44560315]I was addressing a real example on the last page.
We know plenty of it's short-term mental effects, this is about longterm changes.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, I somehow zoomed through that area and didn't read the entire quote in context. Going to have to agree with you on this one.
-snip-
you guys are lame
[QUOTE=jediken21;44555427]And still zero deaths in recorded history ever attributed to smoking cannabis. Deal w/ it nerds.[/QUOTE]
What does that have to do with it? Cutting off a finger probably won't kill you, but it still damages your body.
[editline]16th April 2014[/editline]
Anyway, I wouldn't worry about it too much. There are lots of things that harm you just in our foods, air, every day products, etc.
Breaking news: constant inhalation of smoke can harm you!
[QUOTE=frozensoda;44559469]That sounds more like schizophrenia than anything to me man, maybe you should try talking him into seeing a psychiatrist. My grandmother suffered from it and it had a similar effect, I really don't think weed causes that kind of paranoia.[/QUOTE]
it is very similar to schizophrenia, and i'd agree with you, if it wasn't for the fact that he'd just spent upwards of 500 USD on weed a few weeks before.
We all know the long lasting negative effects of drinking ethyl alcohol but heaps of people still do it anyway.
[QUOTE=FurrehFaux;44555412]This says reshapes. not damages. In the source, that is.[/QUOTE]
Crashing into a tree only reshapes your body around a tree, it doesn't actually damage it.
[QUOTE=Jabberwocky;44560826]We all know the long lasting negative effects of drinking ethyl alcohol but heaps of people still do it anyway.[/QUOTE]
Can people stop making this statement about anything "we know alcohol damages you, but people still drink it"
No one here is saying dont do marijuana. This study shows that there are, indeed, negative side-effects to smoking it. This is more about shutting up the "weed is harmless" people.
[QUOTE=jediken21;44555427]And still zero deaths in recorded history ever attributed to smoking cannabis. Deal w/ it nerds.[/QUOTE]
You know I'm 100% for legalizing but people like this make me wanna oppose it just to be a spiteful prick.
[QUOTE=Code3Response;44560860]Can people stop making this statement about anything "we know alcohol damages you, but people still drink it"
No one here is saying dont do marijuana. This study shows that there are, indeed, negative side-effects to smoking it. This is more about shutting up the "weed is harmless" people.[/QUOTE]
how about just you just go straight to the "you can do whatever the fuck you want with you own body, also everything causes cancer and is bad for you in some way" argument and cut out the middleman
[editline]16th April 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Badunkadunk;44560955]You know I'm 100% for legalizing but people like this make me wanna oppose it just to be a spiteful prick.[/QUOTE]
You bring up an interesting thought; spite truly can fuck with humans in inexplicable ways. It can bring us to a point where we'd do things the opposite of what we'd normally do.
But please don't generalize based off him; The statement about no deaths attributed to weed is an old-argument now, and we have many more reasons WHY it should be legalized because of that. But ofcourse, the research of bad effects associated with cannabis will always be valuable.
I read the study, and it mentioned that the scanning was only performed once on each subject, while they were using marijuana regularly. It did not do follow-up testing to see if this change is permanent, it only found that the change was there during active use.
It's well-known that marijuana use alters cognition, as it is equally known that cognitive abilities are restored to normal some time after stopping (unless the user is very young (<15~), in which case these changes have indeed been found to be permanent). Thus, the study is inconclusive, and does not justify jumping the gun and saying "lol see stupid DDers weed [B]is[/B] harmful", as many are doing in this thread.
[QUOTE=Mindtwistah;44561084][B]I read the study, and it mentioned that the scanning was only performed once on each subject, while they were using marijuana regularly. It did not do follow-up testing to see if this change is permanent, it only found that the change was there during active use.[/B]
It's well-known that marijuana use alters cognition, as it is equally known that cognitive abilities are restored to normal some time after stopping (unless the user is very young (<15~), in which case these changes have indeed been found to be permanent). Thus, the study is inconclusive, and does not justify jumping the gun and saying "lol see stupid DDers weed [B]is[/B] harmful", as many are doing in this thread.[/QUOTE]
thank you for this post; especially the last part
[editline]16th April 2014[/editline]
i didn't enjoy the post above me though
[QUOTE=Mindtwistah;44561084]I read the study, and it mentioned that the scanning was only performed once on each subject, while they were using marijuana regularly. It did not do follow-up testing to see if this change is permanent, it only found that the change was there during active use.
It's well-known that marijuana use alters cognition, as it is equally known that cognitive abilities are restored to normal some time after stopping (unless the user is very young (<15~), in which case these changes have indeed been found to be permanent). Thus, the study is inconclusive, and does not justify jumping the gun and saying "lol see stupid DDers weed [B]is[/B] harmful", as many are doing in this thread.[/QUOTE]
You're correct in saying it hasn't shown how severe or long the effects of cannabis is, but I think the important parts of this study is that:
A.) Cannabis CAN be used as a gateway drug
B.) Despite what DD thinks, cannabis has more severe effects than just minor cognitive defects and cancer. It does have the potential to have lasting or permanent effects. (Minor anecdote, girlfriends dad has been smoking cannabis for 30 years. Has terrible memory, huge mood swings, sense of judgement obscured, physically and emotionally abusive, still somehow works as a high school teacher. No previous known mental health problems.)
Cannabis isn't just some 'fun, no problem' drug. It's known effects long-term are hugely unknown, and while recreational use I agree can have little-to-no side-effects, saying anyone is jumping the gun by saying weed has a very high chance of being unhealthy is naive.
[QUOTE=Glitchbunny;44561295]You're correct in saying it hasn't shown how severe or long the effects of cannabis is, but I think the important parts of this study is that:
A.) Cannabis CAN be used as a gateway drug
B.) Despite what DD thinks, cannabis has more severe effects than just minor cognitive defects and cancer. It does have the potential to have lasting or permanent effects. (Minor anecdote, girlfriends dad has been smoking cannabis for 30 years. Has terrible memory, huge mood swings, sense of judgement obscured, physically and emotionally abusive, still somehow works as a high school teacher. No previous known mental health problems.)
Cannabis isn't just some 'fun, no problem' drug. It's known effects long-term are hugely unknown, and while recreational use I agree can have little-to-no side-effects, saying anyone is jumping the gun by saying weed has a very high chance of being unhealthy is naive.[/QUOTE]
And understanding this will only bolster the possibilities of legalization.
[QUOTE=Mindtwistah;44561084]I read the study, and it mentioned that the scanning was only performed once on each subject, while they were using marijuana regularly. It did not do follow-up testing to see if this change is permanent, it only found that the change was there during active use.
It's well-known that marijuana use alters cognition, as it is equally known that cognitive abilities are restored to normal some time after stopping (unless the user is very young (<15~), in which case these changes have indeed been found to be permanent). Thus, the study is inconclusive, and does not justify jumping the gun and saying "lol see stupid DDers weed [B]is[/B] harmful", as many are doing in this thread.[/QUOTE]
They weren't studied while actively smoking with a joint in their hand, they were smokers who happened to be studied. Even if the effects aren't truly permanent and revert over some length of time (days? weeks? months? years?), that still means that the mental effects don't wear off when the high does, and they're going about their day-to-day lives with negatively altered brain chemistry. That's pretty significant, and the effects don't need to be permanent to be considered harmful.
[QUOTE=Glitchbunny;44561295]You're correct in saying it hasn't shown how severe or long the effects of cannabis is, but I think the important parts of this study is that:
A.) Cannabis CAN be used as a gateway drug[/QUOTE]
How is the study in any way saying this?
[QUOTE=Glitchbunny;44561295]B.) Despite what DD thinks, cannabis has more severe effects than just minor cognitive defects and cancer. It does have the potential to have lasting or permanent effects. (Minor anecdote, girlfriends dad has been smoking cannabis for 30 years. Has terrible memory, huge mood swings, sense of judgement obscured, physically and emotionally abusive, still somehow works as a high school teacher. No previous known mental health problems.) [/QUOTE]
Again, this has only been proven for very young users. And I'm fairly sure most people in DD know this.
[QUOTE=Glitchbunny;44561295]Cannabis isn't just some 'fun, no problem' drug. It's known effects long-term are hugely unknown, and while recreational use I agree can have little-to-no side-effects, saying anyone is jumping the gun by saying weed has a very high chance of being unhealthy is naive.[/QUOTE]
No, it is not naive, it is calling out the bandwagon attitude of a lot of people here who take hard stances and opinions on subjects without knowing all the facts. Most serious users of cannabis (DDers included, despite what you may think) are fully aware cannabis use has its problems. It is rather naive to think everyone who tokes will mindlessly ignore any evidence of potential harm.
[QUOTE=Mindtwistah;44561443]How is the study in any way saying this?[/quote]
You claimed to of read the articles and the study?
[QUOTE]The changes in brain structures indicate the marijuana users' brains are adapting to low-level exposure to marijuana, the scientists said.
The study results fit with animal studies that show when rats are given tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) their brains rewire and form many new connections. THC is the mind-altering ingredient found in marijuana.
"It may be that we're seeing a type of drug learning in the brain," Gilman said. "We think when people are in the process of becoming addicted, their brains form these new connections."
In animals, these new connections indicate the brain is adapting to the unnatural level of reward and stimulation from marijuana. These connections make other natural rewards less satisfying.
"Drugs of abuse can cause more dopamine release than natural rewards like food, sex and social interaction," Gilman said. "In those you also get a burst of dopamine but not as much as in many drugs of abuse. That is why drugs take on so much salience, and everything else loses its importance."'
The brain changes suggest that structural changes to the brain are an important early result of casual drug use, Breiter said. "Further work, including longitudinal studies, is needed to determine if these findings can be linked to animal studies showing marijuana can be a gateway drug for stronger substances," he noted.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Mindtwistah;44561443]Again, this has only been proven for very young users. And I'm fairly sure most people in DD know this.[/quote]
It's only been proven in very young users yet we're posting in a thread where the topic is an article that says those who often use cannabis damage specific areas of their brain after the high is over? (Albeit it doesn't say for how long)
[QUOTE=Mindtwistah;44561443]No, it is not naive, it is calling out the bandwagon attitude of a lot of people here who take hard stances and opinions on subjects without knowing all the facts. Most serious users of cannabis (DDers included, despite what you may think) are fully aware cannabis use has its problems. It is rather naive to think everyone who tokes will mindlessly refute any evidence of potential harm and live in ignorance.[/QUOTE]
Yet you're refuting the study saying that increased use of cannabis has a higher chance of increased damage?
[QUOTE=Glitchbunny;44561487]You claimed to of read the articles and the study?[/QUOTE]
No, I said I had read the study, and that was not in the study. Plus, if you read the last sentence of what you just quoted, it says this has not been proven by their findings, but that they speculate it [I]may[/I] be linked to gateway effects, and further studies are needed.
[QUOTE]The brain changes suggest that structural changes to the brain are an important early result of casual drug use, Breiter said. "[B]Further work, including longitudinal studies, is needed to determine if these findings can be linked to animal studies showing marijuana can be a gateway drug for stronger substances[/B]," he noted.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Glitchbunny;44561487]It's only been proven in very young users yet we're posting in a thread where the topic is an article that says those who often use cannabis damage specific areas of their brain after the high is over? (Albeit it doesn't say for how long)
...
Yet you're refuting the study saying that increased use of cannabis has a higher chance of increased damage?[/QUOTE]
No, I am not. Read what I posted again. I am not questioning that marijuana use alters the brain, only mentioning the study has not shown (or even tested) whether these changes are permanent, which should have been done considering, as I said:
[QUOTE=Mindtwistah;44561084]It's well-known that marijuana use alters cognition, [B]as it is equally known that cognitive abilities are restored to normal some time after stopping[/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Mindtwistah;44561565]No, I said I had read the study, and that was not in the study. Plus, if you read the last sentence of what you just quoted, it says this has not been proven by their findings, but that they speculate it [I]may[/I] be linked to gateway effects, and further studies are needed.[/quote]
Which is why I said, and put in caps, CAN. As in, not definite, but the question is up in the air now.
[QUOTE=Mindtwistah;44561565]No, I am not. Read what I posted again. I am not questioning that marijuana use alters the brain, only mentioning the study has not shown (or even tested) whether these changes are permanent, which should have been done considering, as I said:[/QUOTE]
Not to be picky, but saying I was wrong when I posted that mind-altering substances can be unhealthy only to beck-pedal into 'but it's not unhealthy permanently!' seems to be cherry picking from what I said.
[QUOTE=Glitchbunny;44559973]My personal favourite anecdote in this forum with weed is 'weed isn't bad for you ive been 420blazing it for years and im fine' and the demographic for this forum is late-teens and early twenties.
Try smoking the stuff for 20 years, at least once a week, and come back and tell us how good for you it is.
(It isnt)[/QUOTE]
I unno, my parents have been smoking it since the late 70's at least and they are really smart, responsible, well mannered, etc. It's like you wouldn't even know they smoke it.
Personally I think there were too few test subjects in this study to draw a real conclusion that it's harmful outside of smoke inhalation.
And, the effects weed has on people probably varies from person to person. I doubt it affects everyone the same.
[QUOTE=Glitchbunny;44561295]You're correct in saying it hasn't shown how severe or long the effects of cannabis is, but I think the important parts of this study is that:
A.) Cannabis CAN be used as a gateway drug
B.) Despite what DD thinks, cannabis has more severe effects than just minor cognitive defects and cancer. It does have the potential to have lasting or permanent effects. (Minor anecdote, girlfriends dad has been smoking cannabis for 30 years. Has terrible memory, huge mood swings, sense of judgement obscured, physically and emotionally abusive, still somehow works as a high school teacher. No previous known mental health problems.)
Cannabis isn't just some 'fun, no problem' drug. It's known effects long-term are hugely unknown, and while recreational use I agree can have little-to-no side-effects, saying anyone is jumping the gun by saying weed has a very high chance of being unhealthy is naive.[/QUOTE]
Gotta love the people filling this thread saying, "Well I know PERSONALLY of ONE encounter where it was NEGATIVE so it must be for everyone hur dur!"
Bottom line is that it affects everyone differently. Glitchbunny, you're ignorant, and you're inevitably going to get pushed out of this thread with your inability to forfeit a meaningless argument that isn't going anywhere.
[QUOTE=Aetna;44561693]Gotta love the people filling this thread saying, "Well I know PERSONALLY of ONE encounter where it was NEGATIVE so it must be for everyone hur dur!"
Bottom line is that it affects everyone differently. Glitchbunny, you're ignorant, and you're inevitably going to get pushed out of this thread with your inability to forfeit a meaningless argument that isn't going anywhere.[/QUOTE]
Which is why I didn't form the basis of my argument on that anecdote and that remains my only personal input in the thread. All other posts have been relevant to the study. Flaming me seems largely unnecessary and only further pushes us off-topic all because I somehow hurt your feelings?
EDIT: I didn't really want to argue about drugs on FP due to any time anything anti-drugs crop up, it always end up pro-cannabis, no matter which way the evidence is pointing and people like yourself getting unnecessarily hurt over it.
Also hur dur? Am I back in 2005?
Cigarette smokers were told they could get lung cancer, drinkers were told they could get liver disease. Did that stop them from continuing their habit?
People also doesn't seem to consider that people with years long cannabis use/abuse is often using it as a kind of self-medication.
People with ADHD/ADD, depressive disorders and schizophrenia are groups that often use it as a way to self-medicate.
My point being, it isn't as simple as the cannabis giving people the problems, they probably had some shit cooking already.
It would be nice to know the quantitative effects of these structural changes, as well as some sense of how this scales with age, time, and amount consumed. The lack of solid studies is really frustrating. I like to smoke, but if there's a definitive gauge of its effects I'd probably stop or at least slow down considerably.
[QUOTE=Glitchbunny;44561295]\
You're correct in saying it hasn't shown how severe or long the effects of cannabis is, but I think the important parts of this study is that:
A.) Cannabis CAN be used as a gateway drug
B.) Despite what DD thinks, cannabis has more severe effects than just minor cognitive defects and cancer. It does have the potential to have lasting or permanent effects. ([B]Minor anecdote, girlfriends dad has been smoking cannabis for 30 years. Has terrible memory, huge mood swings, sense of judgement obscured, physically and emotionally abusive, still somehow works as a high school teacher. No previous known mental health problems.)[/B]
.
Cannabis isn't just some 'fun, no problem' drug. It's known effects long-term are hugely unknown, and while recreational use I agree can have little-to-no side-effects, saying anyone is jumping the gun by saying weed has a very high chance of being unhealthy is naive.
[/QUOTE]
The ignorance here is saddening. Especially the part where you blamed cannabis for all of your girlfriends dad's problems.
[QUOTE=Glitchbunny;44561295]You're correct in saying it hasn't shown how severe or long the effects of cannabis is, but I think the important parts of this study is that:
A.) Cannabis CAN be used as a gateway drug
B.) Despite what DD thinks, cannabis has more severe effects than just minor cognitive defects and cancer. It does have the potential to have lasting or permanent effects. (Minor anecdote, girlfriends dad has been smoking cannabis for 30 years. Has terrible memory, huge mood swings, sense of judgement obscured, physically and emotionally abusive, still somehow works as a high school teacher. No previous known mental health problems.)
Cannabis isn't just some 'fun, no problem' drug. It's known effects long-term are hugely unknown, and while recreational use I agree can have little-to-no side-effects, saying anyone is jumping the gun by saying weed has a very high chance of being unhealthy is naive.[/QUOTE]
There is no such thing as a fucking gate way drug
do people even understand how that argument works when they use it? it doens't make sense.
[editline]16th April 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Glitchbunny;44561737]Which is why I didn't form the basis of my argument on that anecdote and that remains my only personal input in the thread. All other posts have been relevant to the study. Flaming me seems largely unnecessary and only further pushes us off-topic all because I somehow hurt your feelings?
EDIT: I didn't really want to argue about drugs on FP due to any time anything anti-drugs crop up, it always end up pro-cannabis, no matter which way the evidence is pointing and people like yourself getting unnecessarily hurt over it.
Also hur dur? Am I back in 2005?[/QUOTE]
no i think people just don't care.
i smoke weed, it's bad for me, fine
other people drink, or do their things, it's bad for them
why do you give a shit what people do in their own lives when it has no effect on you
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;44561902]There is no such thing as a fucking gate way drug
do people even understand how that argument works when they use it? it doens't make sense.[/quote]
The third articles explains a little more about how drug use can affect how dopamine is distributed, cannabis creates more dopamine than sex, food etc, and as you grown more dependent on the dopamine drug abuse gives you in comparison, you might find yourself on a different substance for an increased 'high'. At least that's how the article explains it.
[editline]16th April 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Delta616;44561982]Cannabis can cause:
confusion (Most avid smokers will disagree with you there)
altered thinking and memory (Ya don't say)
anxiety (false, the effects are quite the opposite.)
mild paranoia
hallucinations (SOOOOO False)
panic (hysteria) (Also false)
detachment from reality (Try, alter's perspective of reality.)[/quote]
I was quoting from a medical journal but OK?
[QUOTE=Glitchbunny;44560279]
Cannabis can cause:
confusion [B](Most avid smokers will disagree with you there)[/B]
altered thinking and memory [B](Ya don't say)[/B]
anxiety [B](false, the effects are quite the opposite.)[/B]
mild paranoia
hallucinations [B](SOOOOO False)[/B]
panic (hysteria) [B](Also false)[/B]
detachment from reality [B](Try, alter's perspective of reality.)
[/B][/QUOTE]
[editline]16th April 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Glitchbunny;44561981]
I was quoting from a medical journal but OK?[/QUOTE]
That makes it fact.
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