Jesus or jail? Alabama town offers options for serving time

[fancy ghost ☂]

[QUOTE=Zeke129;32498692]Pretty sure this is unconstitutional[/QUOTE]

how

it's not being forced on them, it's an option that they don't have to take

now, in addition to the punishment they would already have to serve, they get the option of not being punished at all and just going to church once a week for a year

aren't you one of the people that's always crying about how horrible the us justice system is for punishing criminals?

[[Seed Eater]]

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;32499096]In theory, you wouldn't have committed the crime to begin with :v:[/QUOTE]

Being christian or going to church does not lessen your likelihood of committing a crime.

[Maloof?]

I'm atheist but I find church and the bible very interesting, even if it's just for the stories and the ideas that get brought up.

CHURCH IT IS

Agnostic I mean

[[Seed Eater]]

[QUOTE=cccritical;32499174]how

it's not being forced on them, it's an option that they don't have to take

now, in addition to the punishment they would already have to serve, they get the option of not being punished at all and just going to church once a week for a year

aren't you one of the people that's always crying about how horrible the us justice system is for punishing criminals?[/QUOTE]

It is the state forcing the option of incarceration versus Christian worship. It is unconstitutional. It very clearly violates separation of church and state.

[SPESSMEHREN]

ohh boy here we go. nothing like a religion thread on facepunch.

Only problem I have with this is that I believe (I'm not sure so don't take my word on it) there's a limited selection of churches to attend, almost all of them Christian. I'd be okay with this if they were allowed to choose any place of worship, be it a church, synagouge, mosque, or whatever.

[Key_in_skillee]

I think a bunch of atheists should move to this town, commit petty crimes, choose church and then go to church wearing ridiculously offensive outfits.

[[Seed Eater]]

[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;32499247]I think a bunch of atheists should move to this town, commit petty crimes, choose church and then go to church wearing ridiculously offensive outfits.[/QUOTE]

Pasta strainers/colanders.

[fancy ghost ☂]

[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];32499195']It is the state forcing the option of incarceration versus Christian worship. It is unconstitutional. It very clearly violates separation of church and state.[/QUOTE]

the state forces them to attend church? which article were you reading

[Zeke129]

[QUOTE=cccritical;32499174]how

it's not being forced on them, it's an option that they don't have to take

now, in addition to the punishment they would already have to serve, they get the option of not being punished at all and just going to church once a week for a year

aren't you one of the people that's always crying about how horrible the us justice system is for punishing criminals?[/QUOTE]

There is no proof that (mandatory) religion aids in the rehabilitation of criminals so not only is it an affront to the constitution, it's an affront to science and logic as well.

Thanks for helping me realize that this is even worse than I initially suspected.

[[Seed Eater]]

[QUOTE=cccritical;32499269]the state forces them to attend church? which article were you reading[/QUOTE]

This one.

The options are, as given by local judges (representative members of the state), to either pay a fine, go to jail, or attend Christian worship. In that way, you are being forced to choose between Christian worship, paying a fine, or jail time.

Therefore, the state forces you, if found guilty of a crime, to take the option of paying a fine, going to jail, or attending Christian worship.

Like I said. You obviously didn't see the "option of incarceration versus Christian worship".

Should I say it a fourth time?

[fancy ghost ☂]

but how is it unconstitutional

separation of church and state isn't as black and white as you'd think, the state often suppresses the church or forces it to do things (public christmas/hannuka decorations have been banned in places, [del]iirc churches have to perform gay marriages in gay-marriage-states[/del] oops), why can't it give church as an alternative to jail

[Zeke129]

[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];32499300']This one.

The options are, as given by local judges (representative members of the state), to either pay a fine, go to jail, or attend Christian worship. In that way, you are being forced to choose between Christian worship, paying a fine, or jail time.

Therefore, the state forces you, if found guilty of a crime, to take the option of paying a fine, going to jail, or attending Christian worship.[/QUOTE]

Basically they're extorting people to attend church
(and it isn't just christian, they can pick, fyi)

[editline]26th September 2011[/editline]

[QUOTE=cccritical;32499327]public christmas/hannuka decorations have been banned in places[/QUOTE]

That's not oppressing the church, that's getting the church out of somewhere that it didn't belong in the first place due to the first amendment

[fancy ghost ☂]

[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];32499300']This one.

The options are, as given by local judges (representative members of the state), to either pay a fine, go to jail, or attend Christian worship. In that way, you are being forced to choose between Christian worship, paying a fine, or jail time.

Therefore, the state forces you, if found guilty of a crime, to take the option of paying a fine, going to jail, or attending Christian worship.

Like I said. You obviously didn't see the "option of incarceration versus Christian worship".[/QUOTE]

the state isn't forcing anyone to set a foot in church, they're offering it as an alternative to jail

if someone feels strongly against the church then they'll get the same standard punishment they would have gotten before

did you forget that the criminal actually has to willingly choose to go to church or are you really convinced that the police will drag criminals into churches whether or not they want to go

[Lazor]

[quote]iirc churches have to perform gay marriages in gay-marriage-states)[/quote]

um no this is false what the fuck are you on

[fancy ghost ☂]

[QUOTE=Zeke129;32499328]
That's not oppressing the church, that's getting the church out of somewhere that it didn't belong in the first place due to the first amendment[/QUOTE]

ahahaha what? you're not allowed to express religious views in public because of the first amendment?

[Lazor]

cccritical is cute, he's like those people who think that paying shit wages to workers would be ok because it's a choice to get that job

[editline]26th September 2011[/editline]

[QUOTE=cccritical;32499366]ahahaha what? you're not allowed to express religious views in public because of the first amendment?[/QUOTE]

no , you can't have religious displays in government buildings

do you not understand a single thing

[NO ONE]

Fuck I'd do church. You still get to live. Don't have to deal with shit jail food, shit jailmates, shit treatment, etc.

I consider myself mostly spiritual, but I kinda accept Christianity. Not sure how else to describe it other than I believe in God.

[fancy ghost ☂]

[QUOTE=Lazor;32499362]um no this is false what the fuck are you on[/QUOTE]

just googled it and it appears I was incorrect, my beezy

[[Seed Eater]]

[QUOTE=cccritical;32499327]but how is it unconstitutional

separation of church and state isn't as black and white as you'd think, the state often suppresses the church or forces it to do things (public christmas/hannuka decorations have been banned in places, iirc churches have to perform gay marriages in gay-marriage-states), why can't it give church as an alternative to jail[/QUOTE]

Actually, it really is.

No, it doesn't. The fact that churches get tax exemptions tot he extent that they do shows that we still favor religion. You examples are as Zeke said, removing them from public and state property, where they don't belong in the first place.

And no, I don't know where you pulled that from, but churches are not made to perform same-sex marriages in states that allow it, because churches perform ceremonial marriage, not civil marriages, and as a private institution can choose who they cater to as they are not a state entity (to the extent of my knowledge. I have yet to see a case of this happening).

[fancy ghost ☂]

[QUOTE=Lazor;32499372]cccritical is cute, he's like those people who think that paying shit wages to workers would be ok because it's a choice to get that job[/QUOTE]

yes that's exactly what I've been saying this whole thread!

[QUOTE=Lazor;32499372]
no you retard, you can't have religious displays in government buildings[/QUOTE]

the story I'm thinking of was in a mall or next to a highway not in a government building

[Venezuelan]

[QUOTE=DanRatherman;32498891]I was initially repelled by the idea, but In honesty it's just a form of community service tailored to that small mostly Christian town.

Most churches have volunteering services, outreach programs, and various other things of the sort that are honestly more rehabilitating than American prisons.

Don't always take the knee-jerk anti-religious attitude without reading into it a bit.[/QUOTE]

Too bad the only mandatory thing is the service.

It's plain and simple redneck logic that "god will save you!"

[SPESSMEHREN]

[QUOTE=cccritical;32499394]yes that's exactly what I've been saying this whole thread!

the story I'm thinking of was in a mall or next to a highway not in a government building[/QUOTE] the states do it anyway, it's usually some butthurt Atheist who wakes up every morning looking for things to "offend" him that bring down the lawsuits.

[Zeke129]

[QUOTE=cccritical;32499366]ahahaha what? you're not allowed to express religious views in public because of the first amendment?[/QUOTE]

umm

re-read time

[TH89]

[QUOTE=cccritical;32499394]the story I'm thinking of was in a mall or next to a highway not in a government building[/QUOTE]
You probably read "public property" or "public building" and took it to mean "a building/property that is in public" when it actually means "owned by the government (aka the public sector)" when used in that context.

[[Seed Eater]]

[QUOTE=cccritical;32499352]the state isn't forcing anyone to set a foot in church, they're offering it as an alternative to jail

if someone feels strongly against the church then they'll get the same standard punishment they would have gotten before

did you forget that the criminal actually has to willingly choose to go to church or are you really convinced that the police will drag criminals into churches whether or not they want to go[/QUOTE]

They force you to choose between payment, incarceration, and religious worship.

The fact that you are given the option by the state is violation of the separation of church and state. It is state advocacy of a religious institution.

They are forcing you to choose between attendance and incarceration. From your stand point it is an option, but from mine they are forcing you to choose.

You don't have the open option of payment or incarceration normally, you are forced to choose between incarceration or payment. It's not a willing thing.

[Zeke129]

[QUOTE=cccritical;32499394]
the story I'm thinking of was in a mall or next to a highway not in a government building[/QUOTE]

you're thinking of the war monument that happened to be government land aren't you

[[Seed Eater]]

[QUOTE=cccritical;32499394]yes that's exactly what I've been saying this whole thread!

the story I'm thinking of was in a mall or next to a highway not in a government building[/QUOTE]

In a mall is a private thing. To my knowledge, the government has never removed a religious display in a private establishment that does not receive government funding.

And next a highway is more than likely public sector, and hence on government land. Unless you can find a case where it is on private land, then I believe this is always the case.

[Venezuelan]

[QUOTE=Zeke129;32499328](and it isn't just christian, they can pick, fyi)[/QUOTE]

[quote][url=http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/2011/09/23/20110923alabama-church-sentencing-option.html]So far, 56 churches are participating.[/url][/quote]

In a small town in Alabama, that basically means it's just Christian.

[zzaacckk]

[QUOTE=Zeke129;32498692]Pretty sure this is unconstitutional[/QUOTE]

Why because its a cruel punishment?

[Jund]

As long as you are a good, God fearing Christian you won't have to serve jail time for misdemeanors

Praise the lord

[editline]27th September 2011[/editline]

[QUOTE=SPESSMEHREN;32499225]ohh boy here we go. nothing like a religion thread on facepunch.

Only problem I have with this is that I believe (I'm not sure so don't take my word on it) there's a limited selection of churches to attend, almost all of them Christian. I'd be okay with this if they were allowed to choose any place of worship, be it a church, synagouge, mosque, or whatever.[/QUOTE]

So if you're atheistic you're basically told to either go against your beliefs and fake shit for a year or serve jail time

hmmmm