The tripling of fees to £9000 was part of a shift in the way universities are funded, with the government contributing less and students directly contributing more. That's why universities didn't get 3x as good when it happened
[url]https://www.theguardian.com/education/2010/oct/20/spending-review-university-teaching-cuts[/url]
[QUOTE=Duskin;51141870]Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say their the worst generation, only that they're making laws to charge extravagant prices for something that they received for free.[/QUOTE]
I didn't do that though? I'm only saying by opinion?
[editline]2nd October 2016[/editline]
Like that wasn't sarcasm
[QUOTE=proboardslol;51141900]I didn't do that though? I'm only saying by opinion?
[editline]2nd October 2016[/editline]
Like that wasn't sarcasm[/QUOTE]
Sorry, thought the bold text meant sarcasm. Hard to get the tone from text
So, we take a nurse, because a nurse is always a good example.
A nurse is paid £21.3k a year as a starting salary, going to about £25k for London.
To do this, this nurse (now that the bursary is being scrapped) will have paid £9.5k a year for 3 years.
They will also have taken out a living grant, which we can say is £15k over the 3 years.
That's nearly £40k in loans. Two years salary.
In the meanwhile, they have done a full time course of 40+ weeks a year (more than most other degrees) including night shifts and long days in clinical placement, which takes up half the course.
Sign me the fuck up, that's a [b]brilliant[/b] deal /s.
[QUOTE=Terminutter;51141944]So, we take a nurse, because a nurse is always a good example.
...
In the meanwhile, they have done a full time course of 40+ weeks a year (more than most other degrees) including night shifts and long days in clinical placement, which takes up half the course.
[/QUOTE]
Getting mixed signals here. Nurse is far away from the norm of most courses.
Yep, which is why courses that directly impact the rest of the country like engineering, nursing, education and such should be nurtured. To screw them over is to sabotage the countries future.
As of next year, healthcare courses (medicine as per usual following its own strange path, so exclude that) are going from costing £0 in tuition fees to full price.
[QUOTE=Terminutter;51141944]So, we take a nurse, because a nurse is always a good example.
A nurse is paid £21.3k a year as a starting salary, going to about £25k for London.
To do this, this nurse (now that the bursary is being scrapped) will have paid £9.5k a year for 3 years.
They will also have taken out a living grant, which we can say is £15k over the 3 years.
That's nearly £40k in loans. Two years salary.
In the meanwhile, they have done a full time course of 40+ weeks a year (more than most other degrees) including night shifts and long days in clinical placement, which takes up half the course.
Sign me the fuck up, that's a [b]brilliant[/b] deal /s.[/QUOTE]
where you getting the idea from that 9.5k is coming out of their own pocket every year for 3 years, as well as an additional 5k a year for 3 years? you don't pay your student loan off immediately, its spread over like 30 years.
Going to college is fucking pointless these days with the amount of money we have to spend and the fact that even someone with an engineering degree can end up washing dishes for minimum wage for the rest of their life.
[QUOTE=rampageturke 2;51141990]where you getting the idea from that 9.5k is coming out of their own pocket every year for 3 years, as well as an additional 5k a year for 3 years? you don't pay your student loan off immediately, its spread over like 30 years.[/QUOTE]
I am fully aware of that. It may be spread out, but the fact remains that you are still forcing the disadvantaged lower class into taking out a substantial loan, and therefore will be pushing them away from the fields. Such a thing will then impact on the fields like teaching and nursing, which cripples our already devastated education and health systems even more.
If education isn't subsidised, and pay is poor, why bother taking high stress, high responsibility roles? That leads to "shit man, we have no fuckin' teachers" and a collapse of the system.
[QUOTE=Taepodong-2;51142004]Going to college is fucking pointless these days with the amount of money we have to spend and the fact that even someone with an engineering degree can end up washing dishes for minimum wage for the rest of their life.[/QUOTE]
My parents generation always explains it as "it shows that you can work hard, achieve results, stick with something, and show up on time"
Except any fucking moron can get a bachelor's degree nowadays, and you don't even have to show up to class or get good grades to achieve a degree. For the price you pay, you'd expect that it would get you a little more than an "I tried" certificate
Looks like they thought the US college system seemed like a "good way of doing things".
I can empathize with anyone who is willingly putting themselves into debt to finish school. It's awful.
[QUOTE=Terminutter;51142015]I am fully aware of that. It may be spread out, but the fact remains that you are still forcing the disadvantaged lower class into taking out a substantial loan, and therefore will be pushing them away from the fields. Such a thing will then impact on the fields like teaching and nursing, which cripples our already devastated education and health systems even more.
If education isn't subsidised, and pay is poor, why bother taking high stress, high responsibility roles? That leads to "shit man, we have no fuckin' teachers" and a collapse of the system.[/QUOTE]
Please, people spreading misinformation about how people are supposedly going to be forced into paying £80000000k from a 3 year course is more damaging than the actual loan itself, please take a look at the repayments and tell me that you're going to be poor because of them, i'll even post them here.
Plan 2 is from September 1st 2012 with the 9k tuition fees
[IMG]https://t.s-ul.eu/lqwlwRbq.png[/IMG]
Also to worth considering: This is taken out as a tax before you even see the money and is listed as such on your payslip.
This loan does not affect your credit score and ability to get bank loans, mortgages, vehicle finance ectect.
[QUOTE=rampageturke 2;51142102]Please, people spreading misinformation about how people are supposedly going to be forced into paying £80000000k from a 3 year course is more damaging than the actual loan itself, please take a look at the repayments and tell me that you're going to be poor because of them, i'll even post them here.
Plan 2 is from September 1st 2012 with the 9k tuition fees
[IMG]https://t.s-ul.eu/lqwlwRbq.png[/IMG]
Also to worth considering: This is taken out as a tax before you even see the money and is listed as such on your payslip.
This loan does not affect your credit score and ability to get bank loans, mortgages, vehicle finance ectect.[/QUOTE]
The main issue with the repayment amounts is that it barely scratches the interest alone, especially with the higher fees. Right now, with my income and the £3k fees I paid, the band I'm on should be enough to counteract the interest on 4 years of tuition and maintenance (around £30k in total). But I'll still be paying that off for the better part of my adult life no doubt.
It's not a lot of money to be losing, but it'd still be nice to be paying it off sooner rather than later. After all, at this point in life every little helps. And I just want a fucking place to live that I own rather than renting somewhere or paying a extortionate mortgage.
[editline]edited[/editline]
Just double checked, I'm paying back £56/m right now, even with pay increases and all that just inflation alone will prevent me from ever actually paying off the loan. Until the 30 year mark is hit and it gets wiped from my record.
Literally repaying this into my 50's. I suppose I could put some cash aside to pay off bigger lumps of it sooner if I really wanted to. But with the whole "this generation can't even afford a flat" thing, that isn't really an option.
how will you ever survive
Watch as England becomes America 2.0 capitalist boogaloo
[QUOTE=rampageturke 2;51142102]-why are you guys so mad about extortionate debt-[/QUOTE]
Yeah so, it only chips away at your salary a little, even if it takes most of your life to pay off. What's your point?
The tuition fees are still incredibly high and put into place by people who have never had to deal with that additional cost. The increase to 9k a year was controversial and rightfully shat on by most. Raising them even more should not even be an option, and I think anyone who has been to university will have serious doubts about this increased cost = increased quality claim.
[QUOTE=rampageturke 2;51142102]Please, people spreading misinformation about how people are supposedly going to be forced into paying £80000000k from a 3 year course is more damaging than the actual loan itself, please take a look at the repayments and tell me that you're going to be poor because of them, i'll even post them here.
Plan 2 is from September 1st 2012 with the 9k tuition fees
[IMG]https://t.s-ul.eu/lqwlwRbq.png[/IMG]
Also to worth considering: This is taken out as a tax before you even see the money and is listed as such on your payslip.
This loan does not affect your credit score and ability to get bank loans, mortgages, vehicle finance ectect.[/QUOTE]
That's fine and all until you need to do your masters which isn't covered by student loans.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;51142351]That's fine and all until you need to do your masters which isn't covered by student loans.[/QUOTE]
I did a masters and it was covered. Have the rules changed? Mind you, this was when tuition was circa £3k.
[QUOTE=Mesothere;51142391]I did a masters and it was covered. Have the rules changed? Mind you, this was when tuition was circa £3k.[/QUOTE]
Depends how you do it. I did mine as an integrated course (hence the 4 years), so it was considered the same course as the one I signed up on (as I was still an undergraduate whilst doing it). But doing a masters as a post-graduate generally isn't covered.
hey if you guys could start subsidising non-EU students that would be great too
[QUOTE=Turing;51141749]What are you studying at KCL?[/QUOTE]
I did an MSci in Maths there. Now at Cambridge doing an MAst in Maths.
[editline]3rd October 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;51142351]That's fine and all until you need to do your masters which isn't covered by student loans.[/QUOTE]
They just introduced postgrad loans this year. Up to £10k loan.
And people wonder why millennials are broke as shit.
:hammered:
[QUOTE=RocketRacer;51141259]ehhhhhhhhhh....
so for this year I pay 9k, and for final year it might jump to 9.5k? Fun times ahead.[/QUOTE]
Na you'll be ite its only for new applicants.
Still shitty though, our siblings friends and (eventually) children will be the ones to pay the price.
[editline]3rd October 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=rampageturke 2;51142102]Please, people spreading misinformation about how people are supposedly going to be forced into paying £80000000k from a 3 year course is more damaging than the actual loan itself, please take a look at the repayments and tell me that you're going to be poor because of them, i'll even post them here.
Plan 2 is from September 1st 2012 with the 9k tuition fees
[IMG]https://t.s-ul.eu/lqwlwRbq.png[/IMG]
Also to worth considering: This is taken out as a tax before you even see the money and is listed as such on your payslip.
This loan does not affect your credit score and ability to get bank loans, mortgages, vehicle finance ectect.[/QUOTE]
£30 per month isn't even enough to cover the interest.
And there is a clause allowing them to change the terms of repayment and the interest rate.
There is also the fact that the idea of taking out a loan puts people off. Even £30 a month sounds like a sizeable amount to someone who is renting accommodation at the mercy of a landlord, is struggling to keep a minimum wage job and is at the mercy of the boiler or car breaking down at any point.
As such, they will discourage their kids from taking loans out and discourage them from higher education.
The system is slowly becoming more and more American, with huge loans being considered the norm. Sure some courses should be totally elective, and you pay for them, but core courses should have incentives offered. We have a doctor shortage of all flavours of doctors, all nurses, all AHPs, teachers and far more. Add that to increased demands on all systems, and it will come crashing down at some point.
Is a huge bubble of loans being taken out, the interest barely being paid, then the loans being cancelled remotely sustainable?
Sure I got through the system relatively scott free - I owe something like £15k, I haven't bothered checking, which is pretty small. But it is going to be grim for people in the future.
[QUOTE=Terminutter;51145266]There is also the fact that the idea of taking out a loan puts people off. Even £30 a month sounds like a sizeable amount to someone who is renting accommodation at the mercy of a landlord, is struggling to keep a minimum wage job and is at the mercy of the boiler or car breaking down at any point.
As such, they will discourage their kids from taking loans out and discourage them from higher education.
The system is slowly becoming more and more American, with huge loans being considered the norm. Sure some courses should be totally elective, and you pay for them, but core courses should have incentives offered. We have a doctor shortage of all flavours of doctors, all nurses, all AHPs, teachers and far more. Add that to increased demands on all systems, and it will come crashing down at some point.
Is a huge bubble of loans being taken out, the interest barely being paid, then the loans being cancelled remotely sustainable?
Sure I got through the system relatively scott free - I owe something like £15k, I haven't bothered checking, which is pretty small. But it is going to be grim for people in the future.[/QUOTE]
My girlfriend's mum is a nurse and honestly with the kind of shit that nurses and doctors (or generally anyone in the healthcare profession) have to go through on a daily basis for the wages that they earn, it's honestly not worth going through all the expensive and draining training unless you really love the profession. Seriously it's going to screw us over since in the next few years we'll have a major shortage of competent doctors, especially if we're leaving the EU.
Call me a tinfoil conspiracy theorist but I get the feeling that this is all a part of the Conservatives' endgame plans of defunding and dismantling the NHS to make privatised healthcare look more appealing. In this case it's a means of pushing those in the healthcare profession towards the idea of working for (better paid) privatised health services.
I only hope that we fight back against it (either through mass voices of reason and peaceful means or by force if necessary) and make sure we elect some competent politicians. LibDem, Labour - whoever fits the god damned boot by the next election. But it needs to be a united push to make sure the Conservatives lose their central base of power.
Accept students, take their cash, don't bother with quality
:uk:
alright, it's nice to be studying to become a doctor and realise that a place where people like us are in short supply is actively trying to prevent us from being a helping hand
[editline]3rd October 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=GordonZombie;51145312]we'll have a major shortage of competent doctors, especially if we're leaving the EU[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=rampageturke 2;51142102]Please, people spreading misinformation about how people are supposedly going to be forced into paying £80000000k from a 3 year course is more damaging than the actual loan itself, please take a look at the repayments and tell me that you're going to be poor because of them, i'll even post them here.
Plan 2 is from September 1st 2012 with the 9k tuition fees
[IMG]https://t.s-ul.eu/lqwlwRbq.png[/IMG]
Also to worth considering: This is taken out as a tax before you even see the money and is listed as such on your payslip.
This loan does not affect your credit score and ability to get bank loans, mortgages, vehicle finance ectect.[/QUOTE]
Unless I earn a 6 figure salary from pretty early in my career it amounts to a 9% tax on me for my whole life, which will add up to a lot of money.
[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;51145420]Unless I earn a 6 figure salary from pretty early in my career it amounts to a 9% tax on me for my whole life, which will add up to a lot of money.[/QUOTE]
You should feel special - you are a golden goose. ~[b]golden[/b]~ goose
Finland has free education for any EU residents. That's why I'm moving back there once I'm done with my Bachelors since they didn't offer my course (Applied Psychology) for Bachelors, but they offer it at higher levels.
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