Fuck "capitalism".
Life just keeps getting shittier everyday.
How much longer until we reach a breaking point?
I will never understand why so many working-class people vote tories
My proposal is that we abolish half of higher education
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;51127667]Free college/university tuition is a terrible policy.
When people complain about a [URL="https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/aug/19/uk-failed-create-enough-high-skilled-jobs-graduates-student-debt-report"]lack[/URL] of graduate jobs (a common theme in both the US and UK), why would we subsidise universities to create more graduates that we don't need, and who, in many or even most degrees, provide productivity benefits between dubious/low to none? This is particularly the case as there is generally no mechanisms to shut down a university or degree course that is continuously offering negative returns on investment. The main purpose of university is as a [URL="http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2011/11/the_magic_of_ed.html"]signalling[/URL] mechanism. Of course, there are alternative [URL="http://www.nuhafoundation.org/home/blog/bloggingentries/2016/adult/the_death_of_universal_education_r_ellwood#.V-UGHrUWFE5"]reasons[/URL] why we maintain this exceptionally expensive system, they aren't compelling enough to spend literally billions of taxpayer money on. Perhaps the [URL="http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/06/06/against-tulip-subsidies/"]solution[/URL] to this is that we change the system in some way so that we (either directly, through taxes, or a mixture of both, like in the UK, due to extremely high default rates) don't need to sustain a higher education industry for no other purpose than signalling?
Regardless of whether this solution is viable or desirable, making higher education free is a poor policy. It forms a regressive transfer. This is because in the UK graduates earn higher wages in the future, are typically from wealthier families than non-graduates, and most of the UK population doesn't have a university degree. As such, the groundsmen, earning low wages and likely without degrees, in my former school would be paying a portion of their taxes towards upper-middle class children studying engineering at Oxford. How is this fair and just? It becomes equally ridiculous when you consider the alternate uses of such money, or the potential savings from ending this potential policy when we have a structural deficit.[/QUOTE]
but I guess we all just want to get scammed by the higher education industry instead. I'm not sure exactly how I would follow through on trying to remove a degree as a job requirement in most circumstances, but it should be possible given that university offers no productivity benefit - it is just credentialism. We should invest instead in vocational skills training as a replacement and use savings to reduce the interest rates on loans and to offer full maintenance loans.
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;51145859]My proposal is that we abolish half of higher education
but I guess we all just want to get scammed by the higher education industry instead. I'm not sure exactly how I would follow through on trying to remove a degree as a job requirement in most circumstances, but it should be possible given that university offers no productivity benefit - it is just credentialism. We should invest instead in vocational skills training as a replacement and use savings to reduce the interest rates on loans and to offer full maintenance loans.[/QUOTE]how is that an argument for putting students into debt to get a degree? also the issues that are there (the lack of degree worthy jobs) are there regardless of the tuition being subsidised, so why not provide free tuition rather than burdening all students with debt. it's weird to bring up the whole 'taxes subsidising upper-middle class students- when under our current system they're probably paying for the degree out of hand and the ones who can't afford to pay are the ones who are being saddled with the debt.
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;51145859]My proposal is that we abolish half of higher education
but I guess we all just want to get scammed by the higher education industry instead. I'm not sure exactly how I would follow through on trying to remove a degree as a job requirement in most circumstances, but it should be possible given that university offers no productivity benefit - it is just credentialism. We should invest instead in vocational skills training as a replacement and use savings to reduce the interest rates on loans and to offer full maintenance loans.[/QUOTE]
I feel like we've already crossed the bridge into everyone needs higher education land and burned it behind us. Unless someone can find a sensible way of removing the need for graduates the only other option is to try and shift our economy towards a more graduate focussed job market.
The current system means that not-rich (I.e. not having £18k/year/child spare) children will end up paying tax at a 9% higher rate than those who had their fees paid or earned enough to actually pay it back reasonably quickly (I.e. salary significantly into 6 figures, really).
[QUOTE=DrDevil;51141216]As a german, paying for university, and this much nonetheless, is absolutely inconceivable.[/QUOTE]
I have 13,700$ in student loan debt I'll probably never pat off.
Why is england so different than the rest of the EU?
Everywhere else like italy germany or france it's around 1k to 2k a year for any kind of degree in a top university for example.
I'll be close to $135,000 in debt by the end of the year.
At least I'll be able to drink by then.
I went to NJIT for a short time for architecture and tuition + rooming + food was $32,000+ a year
[editline]3rd October 2016[/editline]
I would've been $160,000 in debt by graduation......could be driving a 2016 Tesla and have 50k leftover with that money
[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;51145420]a 9% tax on me for my [B]whole life[/B][/QUOTE]
Any SLC loan taken after 1st September 2012 has a 30 year cut-off after which any remainder gets written off. Unless your lifespan is [I]significantly [/I]below average, it won't be for your whole life.
It ain't perfect, but it could be a whole lot worse tbh.
[QUOTE=maxolina;51147750]Why is england so different than the rest of the EU?
Everywhere else like italy germany or france it's around 1k to 2k a year for any kind of degree in a top university for example.[/QUOTE]
They don't pay these costs up front, you pay them after you finish university and once you're earning over £21,000 a year.
However, what is paid back is generally a tiny amount that doesn't impact people's finances that much.
Essentially it's just a tax for people that went to university.
reason number: 100 of why I'm not going to university
I've been seing more and more students from the UK here in UiO. Reading this I am not surprised.
[QUOTE=UnknownDude;51150787]I've been seing more and more students from the UK here in UiO. Reading this I am not surprised.[/QUOTE]
the fees here don't seem to stop my uni being 28% foreign students
including from countries where tuition is super cheap (tonnes of French people)
Probably because the top 15 or so British universities are superior to (nearly) every university in Europe
UK universities are going to keep seeing high demand simply because they're good relative to others
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