• Muslim immigrants drown Christians on the way to Europe
    81 replies, posted
I think the saddest thing about all this extremism is at the end of the day, there isn't anything we can really do. I mean, we can all try our best in our daily lives to be good people, and to condemn violence and oppression, but the reality is this is only going to get better as time goes on and major shifts occur within the Muslim community, Africa, and the middle east themselves. There isn't much we can do from the outside, and every time we try, we just make it fucking worse. At the end of the day, human beings will be human beings. We can't stop acts of evil in the short run, but by being the best 'we' can be, hopefully in time the uneducated will see the light and realize the value of peace and harmony. It's not Islam that's inherently the problem, its the fact that the middle east, partially due to Western Intervention and a bad hand, has fallen far behind the rest of the world in secularism. I would say culturally, the Middle East and Africa are probably a couple hundred years behind in development. It's not exactly their fault, but only they can fix it, and it's going to be a bloody century for them before they do.
My issue with it is that Islam isn't facing all these issues because there's something inherently bad about Islam. For 500 years, it was considerably more progressive than Christianity at the time. This whole new asceticism rebirth has happened for an assortment of reasons, and hopefully will stop eventually, but whilst these countries continue to be unstable it's going to keep going. Same reason why Christianity can get equally messed up in the less wealthy Christian nations: in an unstable environment, people will turn to anything else, and too much of anything is a bad thing. [editline]17th April 2015[/editline] This is a tragedy. The people responsible should be deported back to wherever they came from (and this is coming from somebody who's very pro-immigration). There are problems with some branches of Islam right now, and unfortunately those extreme branches of Islam are currently a bit larger than the equivalent branches in other religions. However, treating things like all it ever is and has been is Muslims vs everybody is vastly oversimplifying at best, and an excuse for xenophobia or prejudice at worst.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;47542577]Because that's what the media is telling us about.[/QUOTE] Yeah, they're hiding the truth and not reporting on all the Christian terror attacks including: [editline]17th April 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Ganerumo;47545086]Which is bullshit anyway, Islam doesn't breed any more violence than any other religion. It's matter of bigoted shitheads being ignorant, not bigoted shitheads being Muslims. With all the firebombings of abortion clinics in the US, the constant attacks on mosques, synagogues and desecration of tombs by far right wing groups and Christian radicals in France, and the utter chaos in some African and Middle Eastern countries where Christians and Muslims are constantly jumping at each other's throats, you'd think people would be smart enough to realize it's not a specific religion that breeds more violence than others but merely the idiocy of people fueled by any religion. Not to mention the shitbirds that don't even need religion to commit murder and found plenty of other reasons to indulge in atrocities and justify themselves.[/QUOTE] Lol "all the firebombings" can you name or remember even one? How many deaths have been caused by these firebombings? When was the last one? You probably don't know the answer to any of these questions. [b]Six[/b] people have been killed by anti-abortion violence in the US. [b]Six.[/b] Only one of the attacks has been outside of the 1990s, that being in 2009. There have been about a dozen attacks total, most of which caused no deaths. Why are you using this as a comparison to the constant, daily, deadly attacks caused by Islamic extremists? Because it's the only thing you can think of because "Christian violence" is so rare and insignificant. As for your statement that "it's not a specific religion that breeds more violence," what happens when Tibetan Buddhists' become fundamentalist or "extremists"? Do they blow up the Chinese occupiers? Do they kidnap UN envoys and chop off journalist's heads? The Tibetans have suffered an occupation that has been just as bloody and repressive as that suffered by the Palestinians, but where is all the violence? Maybe it has to do with the differences in the teachings of their religions. Pointing to "extremism" in general as if it always causes violence is nonsense, because the more extreme you become as a Tibetan Buddhist, the less violent you are likely to become. The more extreme you become as a Muslim, the more violent you are to be. The differences in the doctrines really matter, and it's the reason why suicide bombings have been nonexistent in Tibet while self immolation has instead been prevalent.
[QUOTE=Satansick;47544129]They want to live in Europe, but they don't want Europe's norms and values. :I[/QUOTE] Those norms caused the issue you are running from. So in short (according to your post) they want to create Europe into the hellhole they left?
[QUOTE=Explosions;47546162]As for your statement that "it's not a specific religion that breeds more violence," what happens when Tibetan Buddhists' become fundamentalist or "extremists"? Do they blow up the Chinese occupiers? Do they kidnap UN envoys and chop off journalist's heads? The Tibetans have suffered an occupation that has been just as bloody and repressive as that suffered by the Palestinians, but where is all the violence? Maybe it has to do with the differences in the teachings of their religions. Pointing to "extremism" in general as if it always causes violence is nonsense, because the more extreme you become as a Tibetan Buddhist, the less violent you are likely to become. The more extreme you become as a Muslim, the more violent you are to be. The differences in the doctrines really matter, and it's the reason why suicide bombings have been nonexistent in Tibet while self immolation has instead been prevalent.[/QUOTE] You do realize Buddhists have a lot of extremists and crazy asswipes who are just as willing to kill each other or other people as any other religious nutjob, right ? Because you're somewhat sympathetic to Tibetan Buddhists doesn't make Buddhism a defacto peaceful religion. Buddhism as a religion has sparked wars, conflicts, made mobs lynch and attack random people just as frequently as Islam has, but the western media focuses on showing Islam a lot more than Buddhism because it feels more relevant to a western audience. [url=http://time.com/3090990/how-an-extremist-buddhist-network-is-sowing-hatred-across-asia/]But hey[/url] I guess [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodu_Bala_Sena]Buddhism[/url] can't have any [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_anti-Muslim_riots_in_Sri_Lanka]extremists[/url], right ? [editline]a[/editline] Being so hard-on focused on Islam as the sole perpetrator of religious violence is exactly what radical terrorist groups want, because that's what motivates idiots to join their ranks. If people were a little bit more aware of the situation as it really was then [url=http://www.vox.com/2015/1/10/7524731/french-muslims-attacks-charlie-hebdo]shit like this[/url] would not be happening. It's not just Islam that's getting boned by this sort of ignorance either, [url=http://www.wsj.com/articles/hundreds-of-graves-desecrated-at-jewish-cemetery-in-eastern-france-1424037359]but it's not getting the coverage it deserves.[/url]
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;47546739]You do realize Buddhists have a lot of extremists and crazy asswipes who are just as willing to kill each other or other people as any other religious nutjob, right ? Because you're somewhat sympathetic to Tibetan Buddhists doesn't make Buddhism a defacto peaceful religion. Buddhism as a religion has sparked wars, conflicts, made mobs lynch and attack random people just as frequently as Islam has, but the western media focuses on showing Islam a lot more than Buddhism because it feels more relevant to a western audience.[/QUOTE] Not, it hasn't been "just as frequent" as Islam. Islamic lynch mobs are a daily problem in the world right now, it just does not happen as often with other religions. Buddhists have been involved in mob violence and terrorism in recent years (in Myanmar particularly). This is due to two things, the first being that these attacks were actually retaliation against previous Muslim attacks and kidnappings of Buddhists in the area. The second is using Buddhism as a tribal identity to separate yourself away from the other outgroup. The Buddhists were not preaching or citing Buddhist religious teachings as they committed their atrocities. In fact, if you know even a little bit about any Buddhist teaching, you would find that they were acting in direct contradiction to Theravada Buddhism (which is the majority practice in Myanmar). Is this the case when Muslims often commit terrorism or other violence? Not at all. In fact, you can see ISIS literally cite the exact passages of the Quran as they perform a beheading or slice off the hand and foot from the opposing sides of an apostate. They are extremely involved in their religion and are rarely acting in a way that misrepresents the core teachings of it. Buddhist monks in Tibet, who know a great deal about their religion, do not commit any violence at all. They put a premium on self sacrifice and compassion because that is what their religion teaches.
Tibeat. I think the Dala Lama with help with the CIA support (which was withdrawn at last second) tried violence to get the Chinese out. It didn't work. So the reason for the non violent approach is a practical concern, not a religious one.
You're real fucking deluded if you think ISIS actually has any religious intentions when it's obvious they're utilizing a religion as a tool to forward a dictatorial political agenda, you're even more deluded if you think that's somehow representative of the entire religion of Islam, and you're downright blind if you believe that Islamic lynch mobs are a "daily problem". Do you seriously think that every single country in the middle east and the rest of Asia with a Muslim majority (or strong minority presence) suffers through constant unrest by crazy blood-hungry sociopaths looking for violence on a [I]daily fucking basis ?[/I] There wouldn't be anyone left in these countries by the end of the month at this rate. Most people who live in these countries and who are Muslim are just people trying to live their life day after day and who didn't ask for any of this shit, they're not bloodthirsty nor are they actively trying to pillage shit every other day of the week. And you should probably read a little bit on Buddhism before talking about self sacrifice and compassion because their religion doesn't teach that, especially not the more secluded parts of buddhism. That's like saying all of India is made of peace loving diplomats because Gandhi organized some peaceful protests a while back. Have some goddamn critical sense and try to think for like half a second about what you're saying, then you'd realize how absolutely ridiculous it is to claim that one religion is entirely comprised of peace loving enlightened puppies who are trying to survive under the brutal fist of the oppressor while the other is entirely comprised of blood thirsty uncivilized mongrels who are trying to topple the world as we know it and replace it with newfound anarchy.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;47546843]You're real fucking deluded if you think ISIS actually has any religious intentions[/QUOTE] And the thousands of ISIS volunteers are all Mossad spies who pretend to be Muslims, right?
[QUOTE=Zhid;47546905]And the thousands of ISIS volunteers are all Mossad spies who pretend to be Muslims, right?[/QUOTE] Who cares about the volunteers, they're dumb shits who wouldn't be able to tell their left foot from the right. The upper command of ISIS is about as religiously motivated as the shit that comes out of my ass. The reason so many people join ISIS is because they feel oppressed in their home country and they have a right to be because so many people treat Muslims like bloodthirsty beasts. ISIS, just like any other radical religious group, functions primarily on a vicious circle : terrorist attack causes fear, fear causes violence against minority, minority joins group and does a terrorist attack, rinse and repeat. ISIS doesn't want these people to offer them a home where they can practice their religion in peace, they want their passports, they want them as assets, women become diplomatic currency (and there are women who are attracted to ISIS, which goes to show how retarded some people are) and men become agents who can go pretty much anywhere and do whatever they're told to do. It's a political action hidden under religious motivation. There's a reason every time a terrorist attack occurs anywhere you have every Imam in France and the government itself urging the population to remain calm and not crack down on the average Muslims, because that's what pushes insecure idiots over the edge and into terrorism. Cut the prejudices and you immediately cut the recruitment cycle, it's pretty straight forward.
Typical muslim behaviour, I wouldn't be surprised if they beheaded them and screamed allahu akbar before doing it. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitposting" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;47546843]You're real fucking deluded if you think ISIS actually has any religious intentions when it's obvious they're utilizing a religion as a tool to forward a dictatorial political agenda, you're even more deluded if you think that's somehow representative of the entire religion of Islam, and you're downright blind if you believe that Islamic lynch mobs are a "daily problem". Do you seriously think that every single country in the middle east and the rest of Asia with a Muslim majority (or strong minority presence) suffers through constant unrest by crazy blood-hungry sociopaths looking for violence on a [I]daily fucking basis ?[/I] There wouldn't be anyone left in these countries by the end of the month at this rate. Most people who live in these countries and who are Muslim are just people trying to live their life day after day and who didn't ask for any of this shit, they're not bloodthirsty nor are they actively trying to pillage shit every other day of the week.[/quote] Many of the actions that ISIS commits would be nonsensical were it not for Islam. I think that the claim that it has nothing to do with religion is the actual deluded claim, and it is also very dangerous because it ignores the root cause of a huge amount of the violence we see in the Middle East and elsewhere in the Muslims world. Yes, lynch mobs are actually a daily problem in the Muslim world right now. This doesn't mean that all or most or a majority of Muslims are psychopaths or are violent themselves, or that they even support this violence. But it does say something about the nature of the base of Islam: the Quran and Hadith. I would never say Islam is X or Y because Islam is nothing. It is whatever a believer makes it out to be. But I can and will say that the Quran is a violent and terrible book. These are two different things. Islam has moved past the Sunna in the same way that Christianity has moved past the insanity of most of the bible. So it really is no mystery what the motives are when a man quotes a Hadith and then acts it out by murdering someone on camera. [quote]And you should probably read a little bit on Buddhism before talking about self sacrifice and compassion because their religion doesn't teach that, especially not the more secluded parts of buddhism. That's like saying all of India is made of peace loving diplomats because Gandhi organized some peaceful protests a while back. Have some goddamn critical sense and try to think for like half a second about what you're saying, then you'd realize how absolutely ridiculous it is to claim that one religion is entirely comprised of peace loving enlightened puppies who are trying to survive under the brutal fist of the oppressor while the other is entirely comprised of blood thirsty uncivilized mongrels who are trying to topple the world as we know it and replace it with newfound anarchy.[/QUOTE] That is some of what some Buddhists sects teach, however. The point I was making is that the teachings of Buddhism and Islam are different. I think we can agree on this. What you don't seem to understand is that because of these differences, "extremism" means different things for each religion. Let's look at a different example, because you brought up Gandhi: Jainism. This is the religion where Gandhi drew most of his ideology of nonviolence. It is explicitly and exclusively nonviolent. What happens when a Jain becomes an "extremist"? They don't start becoming violent for some reason in direct contradiction of their religious teachings. They instead become almost paralyzed by their own religion. Extreme Jains constantly scan the ground as they walk for fear of squishing an ant. They wear cheese cloth over their mouths so they don't swallow an insect while drinking or breathing. They're completely vegetarian. If "extremism" means you begins to follow your religion or ideology more closely and stringently, then for Jainism this means becoming less and less violent. What happens when a Muslims becomes an extremist? They begin to follow their religious doctrines more closely. I think you can determine for yourself what this leads to.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;47546939]Who cares about the volunteers, they're dumb shits who wouldn't be able to tell their left foot from the right. The upper command of ISIS is about as religiously motivated as the shit that comes out of my ass. The reason so many people join ISIS is because they feel oppressed in their home country and they have a right to be because so many people treat Muslims like bloodthirsty beasts. ISIS, just like any other radical religious group, functions primarily on a vicious circle : terrorist attack causes fear, fear causes violence against minority, minority joins group and does a terrorist attack, rinse and repeat. ISIS doesn't want these people to offer them a home where they can practice their religion in peace, they want their passports, they want them as assets, women become diplomatic currency (and there are women who are attracted to ISIS, which goes to show how retarded some people are) and men become agents who can go pretty much anywhere and do whatever they're told to do. It's a political action hidden under religious motivation. There's a reason every time a terrorist attack occurs anywhere you have every Imam in France and the government itself urging the population to remain calm and not crack down on the average Muslims, because that's what pushes insecure idiots over the edge and into terrorism. Cut the prejudices and you immediately cut the recruitment cycle, it's pretty straight forward.[/QUOTE] You seem confused. What you don't understand is that volunteers make up the majority of ISIS combatants, and they volunteer because they believe they're doing Islam's deeds.[I] You[/I] are deluded if you think that most ISIS fighters are there for a political gain. The upper command as you put it, is not relevant. The upper command aren't responsible for the countless amounts of executions, desecrations of museums, carrying out Sharia punishments, et cetera. It's the ISIS fighters. And they're all there for religious intentions.
Remember kids, Islam has nothing to do with Islam!
[QUOTE=Explosions;47546974]Many of the actions that ISIS commits would be nonsensical were it not for Islam. I think that the claim that it has nothing to do with religion is the actual deluded claim, and it is also very dangerous because it ignores the root cause of a huge amount of the violence we see in the Middle East and elsewhere in the Muslims world. Yes, lynch mobs are actually a daily problem in the Muslim world right now. This doesn't mean that all or most or a majority of Muslims are psychopaths or are violent themselves, or that they even support this violence. But it does say something about the nature of the base of Islam: the Quran and Hadith. I would never say Islam is X or Y because Islam is nothing. It is whatever a believer makes it out to be. But I can and will say that the Quran is a violent and terrible book. These are two different things. Islam has moved past the Sunna in the same way that Christianity has moved past the insanity of most of the bible. So it really is no mystery what the motives are when a man quotes a Hadith and then acts it out by murdering someone on camera. That is some of what some Buddhists sects teach, however. The point I was making is that the teachings of Buddhism and Islam are different. I think we can agree on this. What you don't seem to understand is that because of these differences, "extremism" means different things for each religion. Let's look at a different example, because you brought up Gandhi: Jainism. This is the religion where Gandhi drew most of his ideology of nonviolence. It is explicitly and exclusively nonviolent. What happens when a Jain becomes an "extremist"? They don't start becoming violent for some reason in direct contradiction of their religious teachings. They instead become almost paralyzed by their own religion. Extreme Jains constantly scan the ground as they walk for fear of squishing an ant. They wear cheese cloth over their mouths so they don't swallow an insect while drinking or breathing. They're completely vegetarian. If "extremism" means you begins to follow your religion or ideology more closely and stringently, then for Jainism this means becoming less and less violent. What happens when a Muslims becomes an extremist? They begin to follow their religious doctrines more closely. I think you can determine for yourself what this leads to.[/QUOTE] It's fair enough to say that the Quran contains violent and hateful passages. It certainly does, and to say anything else would be lying. [I]But[/I], so does the Bible and the Torah. One thing that all of these holy books have in common is that they are all very large, and involve the effort of multiple people with contradictory views (the Quran was allegedly entire dictated by Mohammad but that still involves at least one other person who may have chosen to interpret his words how they wish). Throughout history, good and bad members of any old religion have pointed out sections of their holy book to say why they're right and the other person's wrong, and this will happen even between two arguing members of the same religion. Waging war and oppressing the people is not the point of Islam. The point of Islam, like any other religion, is to be devoted to your God and give him the worship that He, in your opinion, deserves. The Quran states that members of the Abrahamic religions are not to be harmed as they all worship the same God; however, there are other parts which say the religion must be defended. Peaceful Muslims point to the former paragraph, and more hateful ones point to the latter. You have ascetic Christian monks who believe that they should live lives far away from other people. You have extremist Christians who believe the King James Version of the Bible is the only true translation or is even better than the original Aramaic/ Greek/ Hebrew version. You have Christians who believe that all people worship the same God in the end. Religion has the potential to pervert people if used as a tool of manipulation as Popes past, ISIS present and likely many others in the future have. However, for the most part, religion is merely a complement to one's own personality, and you can make of that what you will. But whilst not all religions contain violent dogma, you'd be hard-pressed to find one that hasn't been used an excuse for it once or twice in the past.
islam =/= islam
If you want to debate the content of the Quran and its moral integrity, that's one thing. But you can pick and choose phrases from it to get almost anything you want. What we absolutely [I]can't[/I] do is act like Islam is inherently invalid with any non-Muslim nation, considering that nothing too bad seemed to happen a hundred years ago or so, apart from the racism and prejudice they faced.
[QUOTE=Rapscallion92;47544859]The problem is that while they might be the minority, actually getting the majority of muslims to do anything about it is like pulling teeth.[/QUOTE] The Lord's Resistance Army murdered thousands with their child slave soldiers. Where are the [I]moderate[/I] Christians marching to stop them? It's not the extremist Christians who are the problem, it's the ones who refuse to make a stand that are the real problem. [editline]17th April 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Zhid;47546905]And the thousands of ISIS volunteers are all Mossad spies who pretend to be Muslims, right?[/QUOTE] And the thousands of Muslims fighting ISIS are all secretly ISIS supporters who want to go suicide bomb Washington, right?
[QUOTE=ThePinkPanzer;47547170]And the thousands of Muslims fighting ISIS are all secretly ISIS supporters who want to go suicide bomb Washington, right?[/QUOTE] What are you trying to prove with that irrelevant comment? The user I quoted implied that ISIS fighters don't hold any religious intentions, and I told him that he's wrong. I love how some apologists sperg off the arguement with pretentious witty comments.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;47542577]Because that's what the media is telling us about.[/QUOTE] So you are saying that the whole Islamic State and its acts of violence are just a fabrication of western media?
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